ForumsWEPRU.S Surveillance Of Foreign Governments

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Minotaur55
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Minotaur55
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Just today I found several articles saying that the United States will continue to spy on foreign governments. It's been known for a while now that the NSA seems very insistent on collecting information around the world, despite the negative impact that it has had on countries such as Germany.

The truth of the matter is that I could care less if the NSA wants to collect phone data information. They can waist as much money as they want on the hunting for terrorists agenda all they want, it seems like they'd only be hurting themselves more if they do. But what interested me was, despite the fact that Obama has state surveillance will continue he says he doesn't want this to harm the "friendship and trust" the U.S has made with other governments.

What are your thoughts on this? Is it an oxymoron or just the nature of every government's intelligence agencies?

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Minotaur55
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Minotaur55
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Obama has state surveillance


stated*

Don't want any confusion going on here...
nichodemus
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nichodemus
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Every government does it, that's how it has been since the beginning, and how it will be in the future. Bottom line: Just don't get caught.

Kennethhartanto
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Kennethhartanto
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speaking of US other countries "surveillance" ( i would say spying ), which i think is espionage under the cover of " finding terrorist", why is it that they can spy on other nations, but other nations can't spy on it's contemporaries? Example: why does when Indonesia found out that the Australian government has been spying on them since 2009, they get infuriated, but when the same thing that US did to them was uncovered, they just dealt with it like nothing happens? or why is it that US can spy on china, but china can't spy on US. it's a bit selfish don't you think?

nichodemus
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Perhaps it's because of the relative power balance? The US is far more inportant to Indonesia compared to Australia maybe, which they might view as more equal in standing.

Because China is now the bogeyman.

IceClaw247
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IceClaw247
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This is nothing new, especially for the USA who have been using surveillance throughout history. Rememeber the Cold War? Eisenhower went behind closed curtains and ordered the use of a U2 spy plane to keep an eye on the Soviet Union during those tense years. This was obviously spotted by the USSR and immediately shot down, with the pilot himself being tortured and killed it was the only death in the cold "war". Regarding the news that the USA is continuing surveillance of foreign governments, I find this rather reassuring. If the big ol' USA has peoples backs they could easily prevent any widescale out break of violence what not and be one of the first to know. Obviously the USA is not the only country using surveillance of foreign governments, everyone is whatching everyone.

EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
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with the pilot himself being tortured and killed

No, FGP lived. He was interrogated and later imprisoned (sentenced to 10 years) in the USSR, but I'm not seeing anything about torture. He was sent back to the States within 2 years in an exchange deal and died 15 years later in a helicopter crash.
IceClaw247
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No, FGP lived. He was interrogated and later imprisoned (sentenced to 10 years) in the USSR, but I'm not seeing anything about torture. He was sent back to the States within 2 years in an exchange deal and died 15 years later in a helicopter crash.

Ah that's interesting! I have been taught wrong then, just looked him up on Google. Apparently he was interrogated and was crticised for not using the CIA-issued "Suicide Pill".
Kennethhartanto
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Kennethhartanto
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[/quote]If the big ol' USA has peoples backs they could easily prevent any widescale out break of violence what not and be one of the first to know. Obviously the USA is not the only country using surveillance of foreign governments, everyone is whatching everyone.[quote]

If US is using surveilance of foreign government a.k.a spying, then why can't others spy on US? "a wide scale break of violence" can't be stopped by just one country spying and known all other country confidential info, what if that one country is instead be the harbinger of "a wide scale break of violence"? it is very probable and possible that US can use that info to use it to find a "*****" on it's enemies armor ( i'm not saying who is the enemy ), go to war ( like with Iraq), as it does many times in the history books

09philj
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Why are people surprised a government as overly paranoid as the US is spying on everyone?

nichodemus
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I wouldn't say its paranoia as much as pragmatic reasoning that motivates governments to engage in such activity.

Minotaur55
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Minotaur55
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Every government does it, that's how it has been since the beginning, and how it will be in the future. Bottom line: Just don't get caught.


This isn't true actually. Yes governments have been interested in potential threats, which pretty much everything regarding foreign governments is a potential threat, but spying hasn't reached the extent it has now. Publicly disclosed information or not.

I wouldn't say its paranoia as much as pragmatic reasoning that motivates governments to engage in such activity.


Consistent, strong, and steady trust among foreign governments is impossible. Which is why I made a post about this. Obama is claiming that there is "friendship and trust" within the relationship it has with Germany, which I find to be ironic considering you can never fully trust something you cannot control.

I find it to be an oxymoron because trust is generally the basis of a friendship. U.S Agencies don't seem to trust very well - if at all.
nichodemus
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This isn't true actually. Yes governments have been interested in potential threats, which pretty much everything regarding foreign governments is a potential threat, but spying hasn't reached the extent it has now. Publicly disclosed information or not.


Yes it has. One of my relatives used to work in surveillance/intelligence, and at least for my country, it has always been that way. When we look to the period of the Cold War, or even the Great Wars, we would see the extent crystal clear. The scale wasn't there certainly, but that was only because of the exponential and massive increase in information available, coupled with the huge expansion of government over the years.

Consistent, strong, and steady trust among foreign governments is impossible. Which is why I made a post about this. Obama is claiming that there is "friendship and trust" within the relationship it has with Germany, which I find to be ironic considering you can never fully trust something you cannot control.


There is trust to a certain extent. Organizations such as NATO bind that, but every country will naturally pair that relationship with its own actions to get ahead.
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