Forums → Games → GC:CS New math guy and new recipes soon :)

Check out git repo, 128-spec for managems recipe appeared. It isn't amplifier-focused yet, but still should perform well

Really interesting. Until now the recipe I've been using has been:

A=(((((o +o) +o) +o) +o) +o)
B=((A +(o +o)) +(o +o))
C=(B +(((o +o) +o) +(o +b)))
D=(C +(((o +o) +(o +b)) +b))
E=((((o +o) +o) +(o +b)) +b)
F=(((o +b) +b) +((b +b) +b))
G=(E +F)
H=(D +G)

and then upgrading:

A=(g +g) +((g +g) +g)
B=((((((g +g) +g) +g) +g) +g) +g)
C=(g +g)
D=(((B +C) +C) +A)

Found it somewhere while reading up, no idea who made it. No idea how it compares to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9KJ4C8jfe0&feature=youtu.be . However this is an insanely different level. I would have never considered a 128 component gem.

My only question is this: You start out by combining 2 g1 orange gems, then your next step shows combining a g1 orange to the previously made g2 gem, and somehow you get a g3 out of it? Or am I reading this wrong?

Also, as amazing as it looks, have you tested it out? How does it perform and what do you mean by " it isn't amplifier focused yet" ?

Black-centric gems are designed to take advantage of amplifiers, while this 128 spec has a greater ratio of orange against black, more so than psorek's old 32-spec, since both black and orange were maximized without amplifiers.

Hey, if you make a 128spec, just saying that'd require a 256 combine to bring amps 1 grade higher(the fastest growth, esp with black focus).

Looking forward to testing it out and tweaking it for amps

@Lanore those numbers in the 128 spec managem tree are not the gem's grade. The thing makes a Grade 7 gem with the cost of a Grade 8.

Instead, those numbers are the number of Grade 1's used in that particular gem. So, you see the 2 on top of the g1 O + g1 O, the 3 on top of the 2 + g1 O, the 4 on top of the 3 + g1 O, and so on. In that recipe (which I don't recommend anyone make, it was something that they did for testing purposes, not actual in-game use) you actually take a Grade 2 O (the result of the g1o + g1o) and add five more g1 orange gems to it before increasing the gem's grade by adding another (g1o + g1o), aka another g2o.

Thunder, one of the things that psorek and 12345ieee are going to be looking at is whether it is more mana-efficient and more mana-effective to have amps whose grade is -1, = to, or +1 compared to the trap gem's grade. That said, we already have a 1024 gem upgrade; if you really want your amps to be 1 grade higher than your traps just get those two to create a 512 spec managem. :P

Using 128c(psorek version) amps, Inverted 128 spec(exchange orange for black, vice versa EXCEPT for the (o+b) +(o+o)+b) becomes (o+o)+b+(b+b). And all (o+o)+b become (o+b)+b).

At 2800 hits, black orient gem has 10,022, orange orient gem has 9,617.

Base stats-

BlackOrient(out of trap, no hit)

46.08 Leech
+0.959/hitlvl.

BlackOrient(out of trap, 2800 hit)

271.63 Leech
(same blood)

OrangeOrient(out of trap, no hit)

90.47 Leech(+96.3% More Leech than Black)
+0.785/hitlvl.

OrangeOrient(out of trap, 2800 hit)

488.26 Leech(+79.7% Leech only!)
(same blood)

By the way, Base 128-s is 39 blood 89 orange. My inverted+1 mutation is 39 orange 89 blood still. Mutation 2 orange 1 black invert 1 orange 2 black, mutation uses 1O2B, so its the same.

@astro, but I can't do 1024 combine, there's neither a tree on github nor a parentheses version! D: those images make no sense!

Now you can: http://pastebin.com/GVS0WnAk .
And you can also combine managems: http://pastebin.com/eGxnRfU3 .

Consider this a little anticipation, we only need some more days before we finish all coding, double check in game and can release our results.

In the meanwhile if you want you can compile and run the programs yourself and get those same results and much more (AG forum is not a good place to explain how, Google is your friend).

Have fun

12345ieee

I am NEVER gonna remember that 2053 steps...

Edit: Amp & Managem different then? O_o

64-spec for managems and 8-spec for amps - yes, surprisingly, amps should be so much lower. It's also all in 1st post, with future updates

So 8s, then 64c for amps or 8s then 8c?
And: Thanks for your work!

I am not sure I can recommend it, Bilbo.

Psorek is trying to create the set of seven gems for the trap and the amps as one complete set. He is trying to maximize mana leech, while minimizing the total cost of the set. Thus, the 64-spec managem and the 8c amps.

The problem with this approach should be obvious - that the game does not care what a gem costs, only what its stats are - so if you can afford a better amp, you should be using that better amp! I've suggested an alternative approach to ieee, though I don't know if they're going to work on it.

That 64 spec managem, though, is pretty good. I'll need to run some tests to see just how much better than psorek's second 32-spec black-focused managem it is, but give it some decent amps and it is a good gem. Oh, and for adding red to it, near the end of the tree is a (b+b)+b+b+b+b+(b+b) (its under the last "13&quot. Replace that first (or second) black with a red, turning it into (r+b)+b+b+b+b+(b+b). I need to see just how much I can squeeze the red out of this one.

I'm trying to work around the issue Astroshak outlined and to do so I built a program that takes a number of gems and correctly distributes them to managem and amps, instead of using a fixed managem value.

Theoretically this could solve the problem: say you have 60k mana at the beginning -> put 10k in the program and it tells you where to put your mana.

In practice values in the hundreds are already too much to compute, so we cannot use those at the start of a match.

The correct use of them is knowing that those are the right proportions of gems in trap/amplifiers and so, after an initial phase, take that ratio of amplifier value to traps.

I'd also like to say that while psorek and I really like working on gem combining methods we cannot to it all by ourselves, there is always need of people for testing, sharing ideas and improving further our methods, so I invite all the interested to hang out at #gemcraft at freenode (use https://kiwiirc.com/client).

Forgive my english.

12345ieee

P.S.: at 112 gems my program gives the same exact output as psorek's, as expected.

P.P.S.: at 128 gems you get https://gist.github.com/12345ieee/9f96c5b0a26ccea6544d

Two things ...

First, I generally start a manafarm with a 32-spec white-oriented managem, and six 64c orange amps. That right there is 416 gems, more than triple the 128 and nearly quadruple the 112 gem startup. I do the same thing with the killing area, as well - another 416 gems for that.

Second, about the new 128-spec managem and the 64-spec killgem. They need red added - replacing the deepest nested black g1 seems to work best. Wherever you start off with a (b+b) +b +b +... then add a ((b+b) +b) type of thing to it is a good choice, but of course, you only need to replace one black in each gem. If anyone reading these threads is like me and likes to squeeze the red down a bit, to emphasize the black and orange more, a 63OB : 1 ROB (or Y instead of O in that) works well. Using the OLD 64 gem upgrade, the killgem loses its red completely during the displayed Grade 31 to Grade 36 upgrade, so the last squeeze should be the displayed grade 26 to grade 31 upgrade. The 128-spec managem loses its red completely in the displayed grade 32->37 upgrade.

I'm a bit confused over here, is there a new 128-spec for managems? I can only find the recipe for the 64-spec with g8 amps...

this file is called managem_128_amps_16, we'll have to add description of names