Forums → WEPR → Calling All Christians
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Since I have joined Armorgams . . .I see a lot of Atheists and their threads about why people believe in God etc . . . I wanted to start a thread about the bible and christianity.
The purpose of this thread is to debate a different book of the bible each week. We will discuss lessons, morals, and different stories.
We will have friendly debates. Please . . . if you are atheist or of other beliefs . . . you may discuss in this thread, just PLEASE no fighting, flaming, spamming, trolling . . . etc
This week we will begin from the beginning . . . .Genesis
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This isn't what I believe, as I still seek to fully understand the meaning of the story. It's one of the most confusing for me (I know other atheists can and probably will point out some horrible quotes, but...). But maybe Alt's half-right and the Bible is too. Maybe at first he thought God wanted him to kill his son, and when he was about to, God really told him not to, but was impressed by his faith.
Again, I know I will get bashed by both sides for this theory, but this isn't my belief, so don't attack my character. It just struck me as an objective possibility.
Arent you also just making assumptions, without any fact, while you demand fact from us. and dont just tell me that you dont need any fact only i do blah, blah, blah. Also I just wondering what if tomorrow scientists come out with undeniable fact that God does exist, what would you do?
I'm not assuming he was mentally ill, I'm suggesting it as a possibility instead of being talked to by god. I'm not demanding fact from you, and I'm not saying I don't - you're attacking me for things I haven't said. Needless to say, that type of argument always fails. Your case is no exception.
Also, I have evidence that he could've been schizo - the Bible story itself. He heard voices only he could hear, which is a symptom of schizophrenia. I'm not making an assumption, I'm suggesting the possibility. Make sure you understand my post before you debate it.
And if there was, I'd cement myself as theist. Duh. I'm not atheist, I haven't decided my worldview yet - I'm 12 years old, so I naturally haven't made a definite decision on whether I'm theist or atheist. And if there was proof, it would make that decision that much easier.
I have a question Alt . . . .what is with you and always thinking that biblical figures had a mental illness or schizophrenia? He was not the only person in the bible to have heard the voice of God. If you think that all the people in the bible who talked to and heard from God have mental illnesses or schizophrenia, how do you explain all the great prophets who accurately predicted future events and pre-warned people of different situations? John the Baptist, for example, was a messenger of God . . . he wasn't wrong.
I also agree with hiddendistance. If someone today said God wanted them to sacrifice their son, we probably would think he was crazy.
thisisnotanalt: Snazzy777 brings up a good point: the Bible records numerous instances of people receiving visions or hearing voices. To say that the Israelites were a tribe of schizophrenics stretches credulity. Moreover, several of the visions seen and voices heard were experienced by multiple people, e.g. the writing on the wall, the light that Paul saw, Jesus' appearances after his death, Jesus' baptism, etc.
When someone says the sky is falling, we consider them insane because we know what they say does not happen. If a prophet made a false prophecy in Israel, he would be stoned as a false prophet. That's another reason that weakens the schizo idea: They were not stoned, and their ideas not discarded.
That's another reason that weakens the schizo idea: They were not stoned, and their ideas not discarded.
But who's to say that they even existed to be stoned in the first place?
If people are hearing voices that only they can hear they are most likely some osrt of crazy. If all these biblical figures were like that then they most likely were that way.
But who's to say that they even existed to be stoned in the first place?
Again, I say that you must have the faith to believe
If people are hearing voices that only they can hear they are most likely some osrt of crazy. If all these biblical figures were like that then they most likely were that way.
Parsat and I just gave valid reasons as to why they most likely had no type of mental illness. Why would you go and totally contradict what we said?
Ya snazzy and Parsat got it exactly right, what is the chance of all those people being crazy and hearing the similar things like that.
Would you guys trade your birthrights for a bowl of stew? That's what Esau did when he was hungry. He gave it right to Jacob for a bowl of stew! What are you guys' thought on this?
May I know what the current topic is? 17 pages is just too much for my eyes... I'm sorry for my laziness...
Sorry for the double post but on the subject of Jacob and Esau and selling birthright for stew... It *is* quite a silly thing to do but ultimately God's Will be done and it *was* done. Jacob was to chosen to be the one who will be the father of Israel and he was. The way God works is mysterious and yet He fulfills prophecies. This particular incident shows God's sovereignty over all things and over a seemingly 'silly' incident as well.
what is with you and always thinking that biblical figures had a mental illness or schizophrenia?
I'm saying it's a possibility. Plus, hearing voices in your head only you can hear is a symptom of schizophrenia. I'm making valid suggestions.
how do you explain all the great prophets who accurately predicted future events and pre-warned people of different situations? John the Baptist, for example, was a messenger of God . . . he wasn't wrong.
I never claimed to explain them. I've never tried. You're completely misconstruing my argument - I'm not saying they all are, just that it's *possible* that *two* of the Israelites (Moses and Abraham) had schizophrenia. Out of the thousands of Israelites, that's a sensible number. And they didn't know about mental illness back then, so it's possible they would've though it could be god when it was schizophrenia. I'm suggesting a possibility, not stating a definite. . .and I'm making valid suggestions. I'm going by fact - some people with schizophrenia hear clear voices in their head only they can hear, and that's what happened with Moses and Abraham. Meaning it's a logical possibility.
To say that the Israelites were a tribe of schizophrenics stretches credulity.
Never said that.
Moreover, several of the visions seen and voices heard were experienced by multiple people, e.g. the writing on the wall, the light that Paul saw, Jesus' appearances after his death, Jesus' baptism, etc.
Never said that. You should read my posts again - you're obviously misconstruing them or cramming words in my mouth. Did I ever mention the possibility of anyone besides Moses or Abraham having schizophrenia? Nope. Does the Bible ever say that others heard the same voices that Moses and Abraham did? Nope. Once again, I'm only suggesting the possibility that two out of the thousands of Israelites had schizophrenia and misconstrued it as being talked to by god.
They were not stoned, and their ideas not discarded.
I only mentioned two people. Moses and Abraham. Being told by a voice in his head to sacrifice his son and then going back on that decision is *not* making a prophecy. Being talked to by a burning bush is *not* making a prophecy. They weren't prophets, or at least weren't at the time.
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Now, let me reiterate this suggestion, because obviously you've misunderstood it.
I think it's a possibility that Abraham and Moses were schizophrenic. JUST. THOSE. TWO. Why? Because when they WERE NOT MAKING A PROPHECY, they heard voices in their heads THAT ONLY THEY COULD HEAR - which is a symptom of schizophrenia. I'm not talking about anyone else - just those two. And I'm saying based on logic that it's a possibility. They both exhibited a major symptom, so I'm calling it a possibility they had the disease.
Does the Bible ever say that others heard the same voices that Moses and Abraham did?
It doesn't matter who it was, back then people could hear the voice of God much better than in today's world. There was less distractions. Also, anyone who is a christian can/will hear from God. . . .So are all christians schizophrenic? I think not.
Why should we even argue over religion? Every speculation and insult about this subject has led to war. Just beleive what you want to beleive. This is a crazy thought, but, maybe each religion only got a piece of the story.
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