Forums

ForumsWorld Events, Politics, Religion, Etc.

5 Point Calvanists

Posted Aug 2, '09 at 8:10am

Noj

Noj

107 posts

Im just curious as to how many 5 point Calvanists we have here. If you are one or have a question about them please speak up!
A five point calvanist believes in the 5 points of John Calvin which are summed up in TULIP,
Total Depravity
we are totally dead in our sin and have nothing to do with our salvation it is entirely up to God.
Unconditional Election
God selected His people before the foundations of the earth were made and He has saved each and everyone of them and shall continue.
Limited Atonement
No one other than the elect can be saved.
Irresistible Grace
The elect can do nothing to avoid being saved.
Perseverence of the Saints
God will keep His people and none of them will fall away and everyone of them will reach their final destination, heaven.

There they are. You may think them cruel but God is gracious to save any of us after we have rebeled against Him. We are like clay and he is the potter, when the potter makes a mistake he can easily destroy the clay and start over. But God has been gracious and has given us a second chance. As for election He does not keep people from being saved through this, but rather saves people that without this none would be saved because we are ALL spiritually dead, and a dead person can do nothing on their own to be revived. We have all sinned and come short of the glory of God, and we are all dead in our transgressions, without His grace we would all be damned but through His grace some are saved and this is not unfair. Because He created us can He not therefor do what He wants with us?
Please speak up if your a Calvanist and leave your thoughts either way! Thank you!

 

Posted Aug 2, '09 at 8:15am

HiddenDistance

HiddenDistance

1,326 posts

So... given that humans have nothing to do with their own salvation, and that those people who will be saved are already chosen, and those who are not chosen can do nothing to be saved, and that those who are chosen can do nothing to avoid being saved...

I guess you guys wouldn't have any rules, would you? I mean, if he's going to save you or not - you might as well live it up, because either way, you've got a free pass or you're screwed.

Am I reading this right?

 

Posted Aug 2, '09 at 8:17am

Noj

Noj

107 posts

Pretty much yes but the ones that are saved, truly saved, want to be more like God and grow farther away from vile things and things that are wrong. You cannot lose your salvation, but if you 'live it up' God is likely to give you something to live with that you don't want to live with or take your life pretty quick.

 

Posted Aug 2, '09 at 8:29am

HiddenDistance

HiddenDistance

1,326 posts

Weird.

*shrugs* each to his own. Even if I believed in it, I wouldn't change the way I live because either way; I'm already screwed or saved - and it's not up to me, so why bother.

 

Posted Aug 2, '09 at 10:35am

jlel

jlel

209 posts

Well though I believe that there is virtue in some of the parts in the 5 points of Calvinism (Hey, I used to be one!), I now come to realize that not everything is true in that doctrine as HiddenDistance has rightly pointed out that it gives people the 'liberty' to think "It's not up to me so why bother" when in fact, God *did* give mankind the choice to believe or disbelieve. For those who choose to believe, then they receive the gift of salvation. Otherwise, they don't and will face the wrath of God. The 5 points of Calvinism somewhat undermines this choice by mankind and because of that people have the misconception that they can't be saved because God didn't choose them anyway, so why bother even trying.

So I believe that the 5 points can sometimes be a hindrance rather than a stepping stone when misunderstood. It is also extremely easy to misunderstand the points as well and would lead one to believe that God is unjust.

That said, I no longer STRONGLY hold on to the points as the Bible clearly tells us that we are also responsible for our own actions and choices (though also at the same time predestined). However, if there was a show-down between a Calvinist and an Arminian, I'd still stand by the side of the Calvinist as I believe strongly in the sovereignty and glory of God over man's own 'glory'.

 

Posted Aug 2, '09 at 11:11am

samy

samy

5,043 posts

BOOOOO!!!!!

I HATE Calvinism it's ridiculous everyone has a say in there salvation if not send me to Hell as an act of protest, I wouldn't serve a God that creates people that have no hope of eternal life but are doomed to eternal death.

 

Posted Aug 2, '09 at 3:17pm

Noj

Noj

107 posts

He did give people the choice, Calvanism does not reject this but rather shows how screwed we are! We are dead in our sins as the bible says and what can dead people do to save themselves? Nothing, election doesn't screw people or exclude people, election is the way that we are saved. People look at it and get the wrong idea but if you say you believe the bible how can you not believe in election and that only certain people are saved? God does not love everyone or He would save everyone. He made us all He is not lacking in power, Matthew 1:21 For He will save HIS people from their sins. Not everyone but His own select.

 

Posted Aug 2, '09 at 4:19pm

BlackSonne

BlackSonne

90 posts

This is a ridiculous stuff for make yourself think you're important to world or someone, you can do anything at world and someone is before you taking care just of you and other special people selected as you.


Just a kid could believe this. Poor God.

 

Posted Aug 2, '09 at 4:36pm

MrMonkey3

MrMonkey3

525 posts

This would make more sense to me if I had actually rejected god but I didn't those were the sins of ancient people's so why should I be predestined by their choice?

This also goes against what I believe which is that god is infinatly forgiving to those who truly repent their sins. That and he gave humanity the freedom of will. If he had decided everything why not just have us all die now whats the point of our continued exsistance then?

 

Posted Aug 2, '09 at 4:48pm

Noj

Noj

107 posts

As for the first part I do not know but its the way it works. As for the second part, God isn't stopping anyone from going to heaven, we are lost in our sin and without His grace we don't want to have anything to do with Him, if we have an interest in Him it is by His doing and by His Grace, He made everything He can just as easily send us all to hell for sinning but He has been gracious enough to save some of us? This should be a wonder to us not a thorough rejection of His love! As for the continued exsistance I do not know, God's ways are not mine, and no one will ever know until we reach heaven.

 
Reply to 5 Point Calvanists

You must be logged in to post a reply!