Forums → WEPR → Communism Vs. Capitalism

@Mavrick, LOL

If you didnt realize, Flite made that story up to show what life would be like in communism. (People being lazy, everyone poor, bla bla)
and its really hilarious because your both on the same side and somehow you managed to argue with him, rofl

Really, the one of my biggest problems with socialism is that everything has to be 'fair' for everybody. If you feel this strongly about it, next time you have to run a mile or so for your school fitness program, take the most out of shape kid in your class, and offer to carry him the whole way. Its not fair to anybody who works hard, goes to college, gets good grades, to have to support the people who screwed around in school, dropped out of highschool, and are flipping hamburgers in Mickey D's.

Marx was wrong. He says that the capitalist exploits the workers' labor for his own profit. That's wrong. Marx forgot about "Competition".

Capitalists are successful because they survive on the minimum profit necessary to continue marketing their goods. They pay workers competitive wages to keep them from working for someone else.

There was never exploitation, Marx was just stupid.

Communism is about giving the control to the people, so that they are free and can act according to their will and not be slaves to the capitalist system.
We do not advocate forcing people to work for others. We advocate letting all people have the fair chance to make what they will in their life.

Society would be controlled by society. People want to be fair, and they will have the power to shape the laws with that in mind. If an individual does not want to conform, he can do what he pleases outside of that particular society.

If the People had the ability to shape the law to suit them and so that it would be 'fair' then wouldnt every murderer, ra.pist, druggy, etc, etc, try to change the law to make it so that they can get out of jail?

And if the people have control, whats the point of a government?

Marx was wrong. He says that the capitalist exploits the workers' labor for his own profit. That's wrong. Marx forgot about "Competition".

Capitalists are successful because they survive on the minimum profit necessary to continue marketing their goods. They pay workers competitive wages to keep them from working for someone else.

There was never exploitation, Marx was just stupid.

It would just be one big hooblah of people screaming what they want at other people.

Capitalists exploit their workers through the surplus value. They make their profit through by underpaying their workers.

I thin that both sides stereotyped each other . . . Communists are stereotyped as totalitarians, and capitalists are stereotyped as greedy swines.

Really, both of them work, but sacrifice something important.

The Capitalist cannot exploit workers and stay in business. That's the nature of free market enterprise, and is what Marx failed to understand. He was stupid in this way.

If two companies both have surplus value of 1000 dollars. The secondplace company wants to be in first, so it reduces the price of its goods by half, reducing its surplus value. It also pays its workers higher wages than the first place company, to help recruit the best workers.

The first place company responds by lowering the price of its products and paying its workers the same wages as the secondplace company.

This struggle continues until a minimum surplus value is achieved where products are sold at the minimal price, and workers are paid the maximum wage.

That's called competition, Karl Marx, you idiot.

Yielee, I'm glad someone else on here understands the importance of competition to any market. The Free Market should dominate 95% of economic moves. At least.

New Lanark worked.

If two companies both have surplus value of 1000 dollars. The secondplace company wants to be in first, so it reduces the price of its goods by half, reducing its surplus value. It also pays its workers higher wages than the first place company, to help recruit the best workers.

@ yielee what you are saying is wrong because:
1) There is unemployment, there are persons who want to work but can't these persons don't demand high wages and when a good worker demands a better payment you can just fire him and teach to an other one what to do the modern machines aren't so hard to use
2) Our economy is not self-sufficient you want good workers and you don't to pay them much there are citizens of an other neighboring countries who don't demand many money and you can have the best without paying them as the local workers
3) The purpose of having a business is profit, to have a greater margin of profit you have to spend as less money you can, so you don't increase the workers salaries is not needed and you don't buy the best materials.
4) There is competition but the business owners don't want to lower the prices they want to earn money, so we have many times cartels.
5) Workers have usually fixed term employment contracts, so when they do something wrong or you don't want them anymore you just don't renew their contract. It's like blackmailing them, if you don't do what is ay you will lose your job.

@goumas13, You don't seem to be considering the effects of the causes you create in your examples.

Look - if such an evil capitalist exists, and he doesn't pay his workers well, or blackmails them, or fires good workers to hire apprentices, then no one will work for him. His productivity will decrease and he will be forced to increase the price of his products to compensate, which will take away from his profit.

If he tries to counter that effect by buying less than the best quality of materials, then he opens the door for competition to create better quality stuff at the same price. No one will buy his stuff when given such a choice. He will go bankrupt!

Therefore, such an evil capitalist cannot exist, because the purpose of business is not to create profit, but to create SUSTAINABLE profit.

You have to understand that the simple industry worker does not play an important role in the modern industry there is not such thing as good worker. You do one simple thing, if the worker can't do you just fire him and you try to find a better one.
There is no need of buying the best materials no business does especially in the food industry, there are many examples like Nestle which sales faulty products to poor countries. There are companies which make products for the less wealth which use less good products and companies which makes companies for richer. Example you buy a Seat car, which costs 15,000 $ and you buy a Mercedes Benz car which can be about the same but costs 25,000$ because the quality of the materials is better. When you make cheaper products you can't use the best quality, because you will not sell many products. Let's continue with the example Seat makes a 24,000 $ car nobody will buy, they will prefer the Mercedes it may cost more but is a Mercedes.
Is not evil it's just economy, no economy is good you don't invest your money to lose them you want to gain as money as possible, there is nothing evil in that.
NOTE: I did not ever use the word capitalist or evil. All business try to avoid spending money on things which aren't worthy buying.

You are contradicting yourself.

Compare:

when a good worker demands a better payment you can just fire him and teach to an other one what to do

there is not such thing as good worker. You do one simple thing, if the worker can't do you just fire him and you try to find a better one.