Forums → WEPR → [redirected]If God created all things
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Here is something to get the brain going. It's been said that God created ALL things. Also it's been said that God is 100 precent pure/good. So God created man and it was said that because of man's sinful actions bad/evil things were created. But if God created ALL things then God created bad/evil things, not man. So by God creating bad/evil things this does not make him 100 precent pure/good.
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We can't argue God Himself, but we can argue the things that came to be where one party believes it was spontaneous, where as another believes it was all in a process.
But I'm afraid to click that link >_> is it bad or does it have something to do with this?
Creationism/Evolution?
Used to be a die hard creationist and now i'm more of a casual one. I believe God created everything but I've no idea how so I tend to leave alone that debate unless flaming occurs.
And no it's good..click it, you know you want to, go ahead do it.
Used to be a die hard creationist and now i'm more of a casual one. I believe God created everything but I've no idea how so I tend to leave alone that debate unless flaming occurs.
If there is no evidence for God then how did you come to the conclusion he did anything?
All this flaming and crankiness... makes me kinda sad.
I've been thinking, though, that I still haven't heard a good defense from the theist for many of the problems with God. We can ask and criticize particular notions as being contradictory or just silly, but here's what it comes down to. This statement from samy is perhaps the most clear statement I've heard from the theists in this whole thread:
Really though it's God whether or not he's real the idea of him can't be argued as he would be/is greater than human knowledge, logic, and understanding.
I think at the end of the day, those who find problems with the idea of God are putting Him in a box for analysis. Inside this box are our rules of logic and our capacity for understanding certain concepts. As samy points out, perhaps this just can't be done.
Maybe we could actually get somewhere by debating this one particular point. Can God be assessed logically? Are the concepts necessary for understanding God simply something we are not capable of fully understanding?
My first impression is this approach just seems like an ad hoc way of copping out of the problem entirely. It seems like we are perfectly capable of understanding concepts like omnipotence. And it also seems like even God would be restricted by the laws of logic.
For example, God cannot make a square circle. But that's okay. That's not a limitation on God's power.
Just given this point alone, it seems to motivate the point that God is restricted by logical laws. So why can't we assess Him logically? Or am I just missing something entirely here?
My conclusion is: Religion is crap, nonconformist is gay, and that Atheists always win.
No, my friend, it is YOU who are crap. There have been a lot of times where Atheists got their asses kicked by the intelligence of some Christians... we can be WAY smarter than ANY Atheist in the world. So shut it.
okk... soo basically ive kinda thought about this... Ill apologize for my brother flaming first off. Flaming wars are found extremely fun at his age... Ok so lets see here..
K so the whole entire universe as a whole.. Something just can't come from nothing. It wasn't just there, it has to be made, basically like a molecular compound. Two or more molecules are formed to make this molecular compound. Christians believe God did this... Athiests believe a big bang or something else.. But what caused that???
The earth as a whole, has such a complexity and sooo many obvious coincedences to create life, it couldn't have just been scientifically, or even luckily created this way. It is the perfect position away from the sun, it has the exact proper amount of oxygen needed for human life (if it was higher or lower we as humans, animals, and even plants would die). The world as a whole is shows such an intelligent design it had to be created from a designer (for christians we believe it was God). I mean when you walk across say a beautiful painting in a museum, you wonder to yourself "who could draw such a beautiful thing"... Same goes with the earth. Who designed such a beautiful thing? And again I believe God did.
Finally I would like to point out that the resurrection of Jesus Christ is still trying to be scientifically proven. No one knows absolutely for sure whether or not Jesus has risen from the dead or not. It is basically being decided as a massive hoax, or a huge truth. What i mean by hoax is that the body wasn't found, but the body could've been moved by someone. Now because of Jesus' supposed crimes a guard back in that time was supposed to watch the tombs for a believe a couple days to make sure no one stole the body, disturbed the body, etc.... So basically no one knows... And it can be debated forever. Now personally again, i think that Jesus did rise from the dead so God could prove to everyone that he did exist. But again this is just what i believe and i cant scientifically back this to a full extent...
I'm just saying, you probably eat babies as a snack and like picking on kids bigger than you, like me, who's bigger in all aspects
So because my 12 year old brother was picking a fight with you, you decided to keep going?? Even though your bigger than him?? Wow dude, please grow some maturity. My brother hasn't even gotten to his teens yet, and by the looks of things, had a kid bigger than him on the ropes.... wow dude. just wow...
And again im very sorry for this fight ruining this thread. I mean ill be honest its a great debate, and its stupid that the fight had to sorta put a hinderance on things.
K so the whole entire universe as a whole.. Something just can't come from nothing. It wasn't just there, it has to be made, basically like a molecular compound. Two or more molecules are formed to make this molecular compound. Christians believe God did this... Athiests believe a big bang or something else.. But what caused that???
What I don't like about theists who say that(or something to that effect) is that, if the big bang needed to be created, why doesn't a deity?
The earth as a whole, has such a complexity and sooo many obvious coincidences to create life, it couldn't have just been scientifically, or even luckily created this way.
We both have our own ideas, theists think something needed to intelligently create something, science(for a lack of a better term, because atheists don't all have the same ideas about how we came to be, not trying to be arrogant) says it was by so many incredibly unlikely events and such. With each sides ideas, the other sides theory can not exist. It seems plausible that over billions of years all the events needed for 'unintelligent design'(no god) to have happened, but not in the time span of 6000 years which Christians(and probably other theists) believe is the earths age.
It is the perfect position away from the sun, it has the exact proper amount of oxygen needed for human life (if it was higher or lower we as humans, animals, and even plants would die).
Chance in this case is something I believe both sides can understand and accept(if not fully, partially), just look up at the night sky, with all those stars it seems plausible for at least 1 to have a planet in the right place.
It is the perfect position away from the sun, it has the exact proper amount of oxygen needed for human life (if it was higher or lower we as humans, animals, and even plants would die).
Doesn't the atmosphere also have a REALLY big factor in this? Without the proper amount of atmosphere, the ultraviolet rays would burn us like hell. Also the sun has nothing to do with oxygen the last timje I checked...
Also the sun has nothing to do with oxygen the last timje I checked...
Other than cosmic radiation affecting the oxygen bonding right?
No, my friend, it is YOU who are crap. There have been a lot of times where Atheists got their ***** kicked by the intelligence of some Christians... we can be WAY smarter than ANY Atheist in the world. So shut it.
how old are you? 6? 7? Didn't mommy teach you not to troll on the internet?
K so the whole entire universe as a whole.. Something just can't come from nothing. It wasn't just there, it has to be made, basically like a molecular compound. Two or more molecules are formed to make this molecular compound. Christians believe God did this... Athiests believe a big bang or something else.. But what caused that???
Hey we are actualy on topic now, thiest whould call that a mirical. If your diety doesn't need to be created, whitch is far more powerfull, and in the Cristian view, more wonderfull then the universe, then why whould the universe, whitch whould be easly trumped by your diety, need a creator?
The earth as a whole, has such a complexity and sooo many obvious coincedences to create life, it couldn't have just been scientifically, or even luckily created this way. It is the perfect position away from the sun, it has the exact proper amount of oxygen needed for human life (if it was higher or lower we as humans, animals, and even plants would die). The world as a whole is shows such an intelligent design it had to be created from a designer (for christians we believe it was God). I mean when you walk across say a beautiful painting in a museum, you wonder to yourself "who could draw such a beautiful thing"... Same goes with the earth. Who designed such a beautiful thing? And again I believe God did
First, science whould be able to explain how your diety did it, though he didn't.
Second, it is luck... Lets say there is a die with near infinity on it, and it is rolled an infinity times, it is bound to land on 42 atleast once. Lets say that 42 is Earth, and the infinity throws is the expanding universe, and the near infinity die is the outcomes. Infact, it whould be more likly to be more like 42,43,47,100 and maney other numers for even on earth there is diverse life capable of living and harsh land, sutch as chemosynthisizing bacterium in the valcanic vents in the oceans. Hardly what we whould call ideal, but it proves that its easly possible to live in conditions that whould leave Earthlings dead.
Finally I would like to point out that the resurrection of Jesus Christ is still trying to be scientifically proven. No one knows absolutely for sure whether or not Jesus has risen from the dead or not. It is basically being decided as a massive hoax, or a huge truth. What i mean by hoax is that the body wasn't found, but the body could've been moved by someone. Now because of Jesus' supposed crimes a guard back in that time was supposed to watch the tombs for a believe a couple days to make sure no one stole the body, disturbed the body, etc.... So basically no one knows... And it can be debated forever. Now personally again, i think that Jesus did rise from the dead so God could prove to everyone that he did exist. But again this is just what i believe and i cant scientifically back this to a full extent...
Once again I find myself refering you to Nickolas Flamel, an alchemist who whent on a trip and came back wealthy, he spen a ton on charity. Everyone thought he had found the philosiphers stone, I am sure you have heard of that. Then once he died, tomb raiders came(As I have said, he was wealthy) and the body wasn't there. So, is he a second son of god, the founder of the philosiper's stone and still among us today, or somthing else that is actualy logical happened? As you can see, you don't need to be a demi-god to have your body dissapear.
The earth as a whole, has such a complexity and sooo many obvious coincedences to create life
Life has the potential to arise in much more extreme environment then that of Earth. Self replicating molecules are about as coincidental as getting a poisonous fume if you mix bleach and ammonia.
It is the perfect position away from the sun, it has the exact proper amount of oxygen needed for human life (if it was higher or lower we as humans, animals, and even plants would die).
You seem to be indicating that the planet was suited for our form of life. Think of it the other way around. Life on this planet became suited for the environment it developed in, if we weren't we wouldn't be here.
If the universe was created for us then why is the majority of it so hostile to human life? Why is just a small speck of the universe the only place that for human life is suited for. Even on this speck there are places we can't live so really it's not that prefect.
Do I have to report both of you, or are you going to quiet down and give this nonsense a rest? You know who you are. Watch me; you flame each other one more time on this thread, I will do it.
There have been a lot of times where Atheists got their ***** kicked by the intelligence of some Christians... we can be WAY smarter than ANY Atheist in the world. So shut it.
There has yet to be any creationist who has won a religious debate with a real scientist.
Stoning non conformists is part of science. Stoning conformists is also part of science. Only those theories that can stand up to a merciless barrage of stones deserve consideration. It is the Creationist habit of throwing marshmallows that we find annoying...
The earth as a whole, has such a complexity and sooo many obvious coincedences to create life, it couldn't have just been scientifically, or even luckily created this way. It is the perfect position away from the sun, it has the exact proper amount of oxygen needed for human life (if it was higher or lower we as humans, animals, and even plants would die). The world as a whole is shows such an intelligent design it had to be created from a designer (for christians we believe it was God). I mean when you walk across say a beautiful painting in a museum, you wonder to yourself "who could draw such a beautiful thing"... Same goes with the earth. Who designed such a beautiful thing? And again I believe God did.
It was one hell of a dice roll. It could have also been Venus or Mars, but they just weren't positioned correctly and had too much CO2 in their atmosphere. All of those planets in the solar system could have had the chance to be fertile, but no, they were not in the correct spot to BE fertile. But hey, we're going to end up like Venus one day, so maybe other worlds may look upon us and say we never existed.
Something just can't come from nothing. It wasn't just there, it has to be made, basically like a molecular compound. Two or more molecules are formed to make this molecular compound. Christians believe God did this... Athiests believe a big bang or something else.. But what caused that???
Another universe. I've repeated this so many times, it just makes sense. The universe is constantly expanding, and when it gets to the point where it is too big, it just collapses. Not even gravity itself could contain the entire mass of the universe discombobulating all at once. Since nothing inside the universe is held together by gravity, everything inside just dissipates, until there is nothing but straight atoms. Once everything just dissipates, it contracts. More and more of the universe contracts, until gravity once again can grab more and more of the universe together. All of this matter is combining together, until at one point, everything is sucked in to one massive amount of raw energy (hey that sounds exactly how the big bang started!). The raw energy just gets hotter and hotter from all the atoms just moving at an extremely fast rate but still being held together, then something happens. Atoms go too far and they hit one another, splitting them. When an atoms splits, it goes ballistic and shoots off, possibly hitting more. When every single bit of matter in the universe is clumped together, there is a high rate in which these atoms can hit off each other, split more, and cause pandemonium within the ball of raw matter. What's the mechanics of an atom bomb I wonder? Splitting atoms, having them split others, and using the raw force of the energy to fly off and cause destruction! In this sense, it is not really an "atom bomb" because there is nothing in the universe to hit and obliterate, so all the atoms do is fly off at a tremendously-fast rate. We are talking like 200xAUs here (exaggeration). The atoms that stay together clump up, heating together and fuse (where we get our higher elements on the periodic table). What the planets are composed of is the result of this expansion of raw energy. They can be modified to a small tweak (like Venus with tons of CO2 in the atmosphere), but the overall composition of the planets is not changeable.
So you see, in this logical and scientific sense, the universe is like God. It creates universes and sets in stone the series of events that eventually lead to life, it is everlasting, and more or less too complex to fully comprehend at this time. Whether or not to think about is which universe are we in? There have been many before us, and there will be many after us, since the universe is one big recycling system.
Actually, it came outta my brain, but yes, for me to know this I had to learn it from books and teachers and sites
What I don't like about theists who say that(or something to that effect) is that, if the big bang needed to be created, why doesn't a deity?
Well thats just it, We don't know how God got there. And Ya'll don't know what was "before" the Big Bang. Its just pick-and-choose beliefs systems.
Komputerkurt- you are talking crap on an online community forum/game site. And that so happens to be on the internet. How do you know you are bigger?? -__-
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