Forums → WEPR → [redirected]If God created all things
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Here is something to get the brain going. It's been said that God created ALL things. Also it's been said that God is 100 precent pure/good. So God created man and it was said that because of man's sinful actions bad/evil things were created. But if God created ALL things then God created bad/evil things, not man. So by God creating bad/evil things this does not make him 100 precent pure/good.
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He had a plan, yes he knew it would happen, so us humans of the Earth would have a choice between what we believe in and you should be thankful
He had a plan, yes he knew it would happen, so us humans of the Earth would have a choice between what we believe in and you should be thankful
Knowing what the result of your test is going to be just makes it pointless. Given the result of the test makes it cruel to have run. The reason you state makes no sense if this God wants to be the only one worshiped.
Can we not argue God's intentions. If you are a theist, just say "I don't know why God put us here." That way, your point can't be argued. Just as theists thing atheists should have a God to worship so they have reason in their life, atheists should respect theists in not knowing certain questions such as why.
If I was a God and I chose not to expose myself to my creations, then I would not expect them to know why they were created. So from a theist stand point, not knowing why we exist or why God created us is not reason to disprove God in its own right.
Can we not argue God's intentions.
We can't argue what the point of it was?
How would you classify putting an intelligent species in a situation knowing fully well it will be detrimental to that species then calling it a test? First off, if you already knew what the results were going to be then what was the point of the test? Second, since you knew putting this species in that situation would be detrimental and did it anyway would you or would you not classify that action as being cruel?
If I was a God and I chose not to expose myself to my creations,
If this is the case with God then how can any theist of such God make the claim that they know God exists?
If this is the case with God then how can any theist of such God make the claim that they know God exists?
Exactly, as soon as you get past the intentions of God, you will only get back to this point. But if I was a straight up theist, I would reply that he has hinted at his own existence. I don't know why, maybe it amuses him. Maybe he simply wants to see how people live, and his minor interferences have stirred just enough that religion was started, therefore he simply remains mysterious. Maybe he doesn't have control over time itself.
In the end though, it all boils down to why someone can believe in God despite any real evidence.
Earlier Mage said God is responsible for all deaths, because he made people finite. Not true. Everyone gets eternal life, whether it be in heaven or hell.
wtf? god doesnt exists who is so stupid huuh
Really? That's just stupid. This is a debate Nixoa.
In the end though, it all boils down to why someone can believe in God despite any real evidence
I guess the universe doesn't count as evidence. Or the Earth. Or living beings. *Prepares for rant about evolution and Big Bang*
Second, since you knew putting this species in that situation would be detrimental and did it anyway would you or would you not classify that action as being cruel?
It isn't cruel. The said species would need the experience. Had he not tested them, they would have never fulfilled their fate, as it were. Humans were given free will. As such, they had the right to choose to follow evil over good, making us sinners. That was our choice, not God's. Don't blame God for all the problems in the world, most of them are from human fallacies.
I guess the universe doesn't count as evidence. Or the Earth. Or living beings. *Prepares for rant about evolution and Big Bang*
None of that stuff is intrinsically evidence for a god. There has to be a legitimate piece of evidence connecting those, and the Bible doesn't count. Until then, it's stuff that actually makes sense, like evolution and the Big Bang. And if you say they don't make sense, you either aren't smart enough or don't care enough to know what they really are, I guarantee you.
Everyone gets eternal life, whether it be in heaven or hell.
While it makes sense in the context of what you were arguing, this statement wouldn't stand up on its own, so make sure you provide definitive evidence if you use that point outside of a debate with context like the one Mage was in. kthnxbai
wtf? god doesnt exists who is so stupid huuh
Derp?
In the end though, it all boils down to why someone can believe in God despite any real evidence.
Most people say there is evidence of a God's work. Some give nature as an example. "Do you really believe such a beautiful thing could happen by accident?"
We can't argue what the point of it was?
How would you classify putting an intelligent species in a situation knowing fully well it will be detrimental to that species then calling it a test? First off, if you already knew what the results were going to be then what was the point of the test? Second, since you knew putting this species in that situation would be detrimental and did it anyway would you or would you not classify that action as being cruel?
I have yet to see God writing down that it was a test. Only his followers saying it was a test. Maybe it was a challenge, or an obsticle. As for your second, it goes back to it being a challenge. People say God is not all good because of the pain in the world, but which would you rather? Having to overcome hardships and pain, and becoming stronger for it? Or having everything handed to you on a silver platter and ending up being a fat, lazy, weak, worthless sack of-
On an unrelated note, you guys should read the translations of the Dead Sea Scrolls. Those are from the ORIGINAL bible. Not the Original, but the ORIGINAL Original. These date back like 200 years BEFORE the original. Some scrolls with stories in em that never made it into the bible, too, so yeah.
*Waits patiently for link to Dead Sea Scrolls as is to lazy to look it up*
http://www.gnosis.org/library/scroll.htm
There. Takes you straight to an introduction, then a list of all scrolls that were translated, also shows a picture of the scroll on most of em. Be warned, if it says "..." a lot, that means you're getting a scroll that's badly damaged.
Sorry for the double post, but I failed.
http://www.gnosis.org/library/scroll.htm
It isn't cruel. The said species would need the experience. Had he not tested them, they would have never fulfilled their fate, as it were. Humans were given free will. As such, they had the right to choose to follow evil over good, making us sinners. That was our choice, not God's. Don't blame God for all the problems in the world, most of them are from human fallacies.
The problem, which you seem to be ignoring in your arguement is that god MADE humans. Therefore he MADE our flaws. He made everything including our psyche and emotional make up. So if god MADE these things then he cannot be perfect or infallible for he has failed by MAKING something imperfect.
God did not make something imperfect. He made something with the ability to be either perfect or imperfect. Adam and Eve fell for it and listened to the snake. They made the choice for humans to be imperfect, not God.
God did not make something imperfect. He made something with the ability to be either perfect or imperfect. Adam and Eve fell for it and listened to the snake. They made the choice for humans to be imperfect, not God.
He made them so that they would chose. If I built a car, and gave it free will, but I made it twenty feet high, and tell it to go threw the drive threw at McDonald's if it wants to be perfect, then it can't do that and is imperfect. I would know that that would happen. How would an omniscient being not see that if you build a car to fail it will?
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