As alot of you know the pope was in New York yesterday. He blessed ground zero and yankee stadium ( downer for me i am a Mets fan ) anyway share you thoughts.
That is fine everyone, why is everybody calling me out? I know what Catholics believe, many of my good friends are Catholic, I am just saying that there are a few things I find strange about Catholicism.
@oscynk But oscynk, does the Bible not say that everyone has fallen short of the glory of God, and that only through Christ is one saved? If Mary was sinless, she didn't need Jesus to gain access to heaven, therefore that Scripture would be lying to us.
Mary was sinless, but God made her that to start off with. She had no original sin which was God's plan. It never said that Mary "needed" Jesus to get to heaven, but she was the mother of him, so she is the "Queen of Heaven" as I like to call it.
A nice point Coheed, but as of right now you are saying that that Scripture is lying to us, therefore why believe the Bible at all? Again, let me restate my question to all Catholics here:
Does the Bible not say that everyone has fallen short of the glory of God, and that only through Christ is one saved? If Mary was sinless, she didn't need Jesus to gain access to heaven, therefore that Scripture would be lying to us.
The original word of that verse is "ALL have fallen short of the glory of God". Well, I kindof have to say that Mary falls into all, wouldn't you agree?
If Mary is sinless, then she does not need Christ to get into heaven. But the Scripture clearly says:
"ALL have fallen short of the glory of God"
I believe Mary falls into the category of 'all', and if she is sinless she has not fallen short of the glory of God. So, that would mean that Scripture is lying, if Mary is indeed sinless.
Haha, well we have ALL fallen short of his glory. Of course we have. God is well, God! There is no way to be at his glory. That is why you must follow him and try to be like him to get into heaven.
Well, first of all, we most definetly do not worship Mary, we as catholics (we meaning anyone here who is catholic) we honor Mary for bearing the son of God.
@homegrove
So, when you said that "All have fallen short of the glory of God" what does that really mean? Does it mean that no one can ever, ever get to heaven on their own as you have basically defined it. Or does it mean that we will never reach the holiness that God himself has? So, since all have fallen short of Gods glory, does that mean that Mary falls short of being able to go to heaven on her own? or does it mean she will never be on the same level of holiness than God?
I was also wondering where you found that verse, just curious thats all...
Sure, that verse is Romans 3:23, "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God"
And none of you understand my point, I am not saying no one can get into heaven, I am simply trying to put forth my point of view, that Mary was not sinless.
According to that verse, every human being has sinned, which would include Mary. That is why I do not believe that Mary was sinless, since I believe what the Bible has to say.
Also, listen to the verse after: "And all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus"
I understand your point of view... You are basically interpreting the verse Romans 3:23 as: Everyone has sinned except for God and also that: No one can get to Heaven without the help of God and also that: Everyone has sinned. So what you are questioning is that how can Mary have never sinned if your interpretation of that verse says otherwise.
So when that verse that that everyone has fallen short of His glory, how does that mean that no one can be sinless?
And also where are you getting the information that Mary did not need God's help to get to Heaven?
I am sorry, it is very hard for me to understand what you are saying; your wording is confusing me.
Do you not see what the Bible clearly states? "For ALL have sinned..." Again, I believe Mary is classified under 'all', which implies that she has sinned. I have stated my point in many ways multiple times, so that is I have to say on this subject.
As lost as I am, It was tight to see the Pope's pictures on TV, always wondered what he looked like.
FACT: Roman Catholics have decided 8 out of the 9 presidential elections
FACT: I am not a Roman Catholic :P
FACT: There are 70 Million Roman Catholics in America. [17.2%] -At least, Thats the last I've seen about it.
Well, I'm sure when Mary was a baby she could have done something she wasn't thinking of. After all, we are only human. I doubt Mary was any different, unless you have something to say about that, too. xP Either way, Roman Catholicism works in an Heirarchy typa system, even though no one is worshipped, people such as popes and bishops lead as strong religious icons being all.. Religious. :P
Anyway, Its tight the Pope came, since, He doesn't really live around here. :P
