ForumsProgramming ForumAGame: initialize

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beech
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beech
107 posts
Peasant

Hey everyone

I've seen many posts where people would like to make a game, but don't know where to start, don't know how to program, or don't know what it really takes to bring a project all the way to completion. it is work. it takes time, effort, tools. but it is also fun and rewarding, and is usually a great learning process.

and i think i have an idea...

i would propose that we form a collective group and produce a real game, concept to completion. we would all participate in its production, debate on the genre, debate on the mechanics, debate on the graphics, theme, etc. - then split up the work into focused groups, build the pieces and ultimately submit the game here on AG. call it an open source game project, if you will - i've seen this done before and it can work.

i am a game developer, and build new games on a regular basis, i understand the process and what it takes to get to there, and am skilled in both programming and artistic works - but i will not be building this game - you will. i will act as the guide.

what i would like to know is this: is there any interest in creating a project like this? how many people can we get together? what skills do you bring to the table?

we'll need: artists, writers, programmers(AS3) and administrators

we'll also need to start with a brainstorming session, to figure out what genre of game to build, what the general theme of the game will be, what kinds of mechanics will be used, what kinds of characters, etc. there are many things to consider.

you also may join a group that you simply have an interest in, even if you don't have skills in that area. part of the point of this concept is to learn about what interests you, and a great way to do that is by participation with peers.

so, if you have an interest in being a part of a project of this kind, post to this thread what your skills or interests are, that you can use as part of the team. we will then form groups, and begin the real work, we'll keep threads going for each group and task, process, etc. this will only work if we have enough people willing to participate, it will take time, and effort, and there will be no deadlines, however we will keep a milestone list to keep on track.

what say you?

  • 25 Replies
gaboloth
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gaboloth
1,617 posts
Peasant

I say the idea is great, but ive no idea if there is enough people here. I would join, but as3 is still a bit dark for me. maybe in a few month I can be a programmer, and I can be the artist at any time if I get a tablet

beech
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beech
107 posts
Peasant

LOL - sounds great gaboloth! you can certainly participate in any/all fields if you like.

i don't know either if there will be enough interest - but it seems as though there are many who continue to post here who would like to learn how to build games - so i figured, why not do it together!

i totally understand about the tablet, drawing/painting with a mouse is akin to drawing with a brick! lol - but try working more with vector art (pen tools) in that case, it's really nice to use bazier control handles, that way one can manipulate lines/shapes to get them just right - it's all about form, color, light and shadow - but that is for another thread

additionally, it doesn't matter if your not well versed in AS3, part of the point of this concept is to learn along the way - for the benefit of everyone involved - and we'll all learn from the discussion and participation.

beech
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beech
107 posts
Peasant

btw - the aramtars... all vector work b-e-a-utifully crafted without a tablet (could be using one, but they are vector for the most part - guessing, but pretty sure)

Darkroot
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Darkroot
2,775 posts
Shepherd

Mouse and Keyboard are fine for more linear artwork especially for buildings and stuff but tablet is the boss for sketching and detailed artwork. I have one and have been slightly neglecting it.

But this would be hard to bring into fruition because most people don't realize how hard it is to work on a game and almost no one knows how to program here. We will have dozens of artists that will not even have the skills to make art. This is more of a project for intermediate users.

Well lets see how it turns out I'm willing to help it along a bit. I'm a advanced beginner to intermediate in actionscript 3 and artwork in flash. I'm a decent writer and could easily make a decent design document in pdf format.

But I probably won't be that involved since I have my own PHP/MySQL project going on.

beech
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beech
107 posts
Peasant

excellent Darkroot! and it is quite alright that you have work of your own moving forward of course, (i do as well) and will not be able to dedicate to this in a 'full time' capacity, as i doubt most will be able to do so - i don't expect this to be a hardcore deadline oriented project, and no one will be pressured to produce work - also, if there isn't enough interest, we'll simply let the idea die.

and although we want to produce something that we can be all be proud of, i envision this as a learning process for most, some of the more skilled or experienced will naturally lead and teach, while others will participate, learn and gain experience - also there's an old maxim: "many hand, make light work" the point is to dream, do, talk, create, and have fun - while making something you can point to and say "i was a part of that".

i expect this project (if it gets off the ground) to take time, and we should take the time to do it well. i see many threads of artwork, writing and other 'contests' that don't have an ultimate goal - with similar effort we can collaborate to actually produce an end result, based around the reason that we're here - we all love games.

as to programming - agreed - however that was part of my motivation here - instead of trying to answer the same questions over and over in different threads, it seems that we could gather those who really want to learn, and work together to discover those answers as a group.

Darkroot
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Darkroot
2,775 posts
Shepherd

You will have to split the groups up because you don't need more than 4 people per game otherwise it will just turn into a cluster fudge. I'm thinking of something along of 2 newbie programmers and 1 artist and 1 writer. With a not newbie programmer helping at least 2 groups.

Also one of the not newbie programmers making a tutorial on something that the newbies are working on. So they can apply it to the game.

driejen
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driejen
486 posts
Peasant

I would like to join, I know the basics of AS3 and can make simple games but have yet to make anything full scale. Though I'd like to point out that it will require a clear goal before we start and good leadership, I was in a group that failed horribly because of this I believe and no one did anything for a while xD but hopefully this will go much better.

beech
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beech
107 posts
Peasant

great driejen - very good! and i can't agree more.

ok - now here's the thing, i'm thinking bigger - and i have actually seen this done with 10k+ people involved! but that is 'too' big for what we wish to achieve, without question.

but yes, the plan would be to split into focused groups - but with many involved, discussing, proposing on ideas, voting perhaps with guidance - part of this would be to 'form' the plan, the objectives, the concept - we break off and keep threads going on each aspect, break those down into tasks, keep those focuses going, etc. clearly, we will need leadership, and administration - but again, from the group - democratically.

i understand you point Darkroot, but the idea IS to get many involved, and not simply create a small collaboration, but rather to build an large, open source, community project: AGame

but this is *precisely* the meat of the concept - your thoughts should be shared, voiced, everyone has that right and should be encouraged to do so - at the end of the day when we put it to a tally, we'll decided issues collectively after reasonable debate - it think that part of the leaderships role will be in forming the agenda, reiterating stated opinions/concerns, and forming the ballot or motion.

more to come.

Darkroot
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Darkroot
2,775 posts
Shepherd

Yeah I see what your getting at but a large project will be too overwhelming. Like if we get involved the newbies will be overwhelmed by classes and overly complicated code. It would seem to be a better idea on getting people on the same page with a small projects and seeing what people that are committed before launching them into a full scale project.

gaboloth
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gaboloth
1,617 posts
Peasant

I was thinking about a thing like a shoot em up, the "move with wasd and shoot with mouse" kind, with lots of different enemies, so we can
1 build the game and character class in the way beech said,
2 everyone can donate a few lines of code or a little artwork for a new enemy, like one that shoots, one that follow you, one that go straight, and so on.
Also, the artworks for a game like this are quite simple to do.
A last thing, if the project work, I think we should make a thread in the art section too, because very few artists look in this forum.

beech
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beech
107 posts
Peasant

right on guys - good thoughts

ok - now i understand how it could get overwhelming, but what we do here is break it down into a lot of smaller projects, and work on those individually.

for instance, we'll need characters - we'd start threads for each one, say the Hero - after having discussed ideas and narrowed it down and chosen things about the character, and his/her attributes, abilities, weaponry, whatever - then we create a thread to design it, everyone posts, vote, refine, post refine, vote, refine, etc. - it'll be *like* the contest threads, but with purpose and direction.

the coding would be similar, start by discussing the framework, break it down into sections of classes, thread the each class, discuss, research, write, refine - break those down into methods, interfaces, etc - break down and code the methods, refine, etc, write, refine - all taking part using everyones creativity and ability to build well constructed code - over time.

break it down - create a group around the task, hash it over, write it well, plug it in - one step at a time. gaboloth - you've got the right idea there in 2

but let's hold off on describing what type of game just yet - as in-line with the concept, we should begin a thread to discuss just what type of game this would be - take input from everyone - determine what it is about the kinds of games we like to play, and what makes them fun, interesting, addicting, incorporate those thoughts into the mechanics of the game as chosen: is it a RPG, a FPS, arcade, platformer, physics, etc. - what would be really fun, what does everyone like? that is a loooong discussion for an individual thread - right now, lets consider structure. (and see if we can get people involved LOL)

and absolutely we should post in the other boards, especially the art board for character, world development - excellent - that's spot on with the idea.

beech
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beech
107 posts
Peasant

well - it seems as this is going well... not! lol

ok Darkroot - i think you're right, we don't have enough interest here to truly build a program like this - i quite expected to get more interest from people who have an interest in building games - there is much that can be learned while working together on a project, but it seems as though it may be:

1) too intimidating for people to want to get involved
2) have a 'great idea' they don't wish to share
3) believe this a advertising ploy by Microsoft
4) don't see the value in learning anything
5) wish to only eat boogers
...

LOL :P

we'll give it a little longer then kill the thread - here's hopin

Darkroot
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Darkroot
2,775 posts
Shepherd

Only number one is a legitimate excuse and by the number of spammed thread asking for helping making,helping and publishing games I would think there would be more people.

Well since no one cares to learn how about you help me along ? I've been self teaching myself flash but I'm too lazy and don't have time to start making games also since my school doesn't do "low" end stuff like adobe. I don't really have any small exercises or tests to well "test" myself. I was wondering if you could help me in that department. Reading books if fine but the exercises in them are dry and already done for you.

gaboloth
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gaboloth
1,617 posts
Peasant

If we make it in as2 I can make all coding you want, in as3 you will have to help me a lot. However, this project doesn't have much sense with 4 members... But I'd wait to kill the thread, maybe we'll find interested people. The thread can totally just sit here and wait XD

beech
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beech
107 posts
Peasant

yeah D - i had thought that there would be too, considering the questions asked. and yes, of course, i'd be happy to help you any way i can - i sure as hell don't know everything, but i have a few tricks :P - lets figure out another way to communicate in a more private setting however.

gab - i totally hear ya on both counts, a big project with just the four of us is pointless to be a public endeavor, rather we made the effort as a small group for profit - wwwhhhaaaHAHAHA HA HA! and yeah i agree also, let the thread sit, guess i was jumping the gun a bit, it really has only been up a few days.

but also, don't worry about your AS3 knowledge, it's different, but a lot of the core principles are the similar - you'll pick it up in no time. one of the biggest differences is the DisplayList concept, but once you get the idea, it is SOOOO much better and easier than handling depths and instances in 2 - and 3 is really powerful, more than 10x the processing speed of 2 (more i think now with the recent FP10.1 release) i would strongly encourage you to crack the docs and start thinking in terms of 3. i was hesitant at first too - it took me over a year to finally abandon 2 and start working in 3 - but after that, forget it, 2 doesn't hold a candle to 3

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