Forums → WEPR → Theism and Atheism
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I grew up atheist for 16 years. I had always kept an open mind towards religion, but never really felt a need to believe in it. My sister started going to a Wednesday night children's program at a church. Eventually, I was dragged into a Christmas Eve service. Scoffing, I reluctantly went, assuming that this was going to be a load of crap, but when I went, I felt something. Something that I've never felt before. I felt a sense of empowerment and a sense of calling. Jesus called upon my soul, just like he did with his disciples. he wanted me to follow him. Now, my life is being lived for Christ. He died on the cross for my sins, and the sins of everyone who believes in him. He was beaten, brutalized, struck with a whip 39 times, made to carry a cross up to the stage of his death. This I believe to be true, and I can never repay him for what he has done.
I still have my struggles with Christianity, but I've found this bit of information most useful. Religion is not comprehensible in the human mind, because we cannot comprehend the idea of a perfect and supreme being, a God, but we can believe it in our heart, and that's the idea of faith. Faith is, even though everything rides against me believing in Jesus, I still believe in him because I know that it's true in my heart. I invite my fellow Brothers and sisters of the LORD to talk about how Jesus has helped you in your life. No atheists and no insults please
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I really don't know how to respond except, Stephen Hawking has several theories. He also probably has evidence too.
Hypotheses not theory. Though we do have something called M theory which could answer such questions.
So, if you will first write a sequence, then toss coin and it will spell exactly this, this event will indeed have a 1/2^50 chance to happen.
Basically, the point I was trying to make is that a e-4546 or so number ignores all the almost infinite unlikely situations that could have also resulted, so this number alone cannot be said to mean anything.
Well, I have read this through. Nice pun tho. Do you know you might have already sold your soul to the devil? There was at least one license agreement that has one of the statements alike "I hereby sell my soul".
Yeah, but to sell your soul it has to be available to take and there has to be a devil to take. Since neither is possible you can't sell your soul to the devil.
Well, scientists could never know why physics is like what they observe, and not like anything else. For them, it was like this from the beginning. Mainly the same applies to any other science - it has laws, they were there. And no one of them can answer how did these laws become formed. Not "discovered", since people can determine the laws of science, given our minds, but formed, prior to matter ever appearing.
But physics have to be one way they are this way if they were another way we wouldn't be there to wonder why so it could be that there are an infinite amount of parallel universe each with a different way physics worked and in ones where life evolves they wonder why they are like that.
Basically, the point I was trying to make is that a e-4546 or so number ignores all the almost infinite unlikely situations that could have also resulted, so this number alone cannot be said to mean anything.The situation TTTT...T is always a special one. In fact, if 15000 people will meet somewhere, will receive numbers according to their arrival, and then will independently receive a questionable evidence with following request of do they believe or not, any of the [YN]^15000 sequences will have equal probabilities. With Fatima, we are already given an evidence of 30000 or more consonant reports about what had happened there, and what they had seen. If there was no such events, the probability of them all reporting they had same (nearly same) visions is less than 2.8e-4516. If you will say that this chance didn't come true, this will mean that there was an event unexplainable by current science, that is, a miracle. This number isn't alone, there was an accompanying method of determining this number, and its meaning was explained.
Yeah, but to sell your soul it has to be available to take and there has to be a devil to take. Since neither is possible you can't sell your soul to the devil.It's called "better overestimate than underestimate", if by any means you'll find that both soul and devil exist, you're at a great loss, since a loss of soul to devil is hard to repair (the Church says it's possible tho, but one has to accept a lot prior to applying for help).
But physics have to be one way they are this wayWhy? The following text does not explain anything, and is a pure speculation. Scientific theories so far cannot explain why is the physics like that. I know they are trying, at least I'll be glad if they'll find the Higgs. (Though there was an interesting event recently at Tevatron here, for example that may state there's something beyond the Standard model... it's possible there won't be an end if one'd go into the matter structure)
It's called "better overestimate than underestimate", if by any means you'll find that both soul and devil exist, you're at a great loss, since a loss of soul to devil is hard to repair (the Church says it's possible tho, but one has to accept a lot prior to applying for help).
*sigh* Pascal's wager... what you said only works if there is only christianism or no christianism to consider. Strangely, there are many more religions, whose "right path" aren't always very compatible, so you would undergo a phenomenal risk in trying one direction anyway. I mean, maybe somewhere you signed to have your soul put into tartarus for eternity, in exchange to the soul of Sisyphus
Good ol' Pascal's Wager - have some criticism as taken from RationalWiki:
There are many problems with this statement. One, which does not constitute a logical fallacy in its own right, is the fact that there are an infinite number of hypothetical gods. If there was no possibility of more than one god's existence, the statement would make logical sense, however, there is no evidence that the Christian god is more real than any of the Hindu gods or even the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Even in the limited world-view of Christian monotheism, various individual Christian sects disagree with one another about what is necessary for salvation.
This argument against Pascal's wager is:
If you believe in a single God, you will have to choose one out of infinite possible varieties.
If any percent of the possible gods will punish you eternally, then there are an infinite number of hypothetical gods who, if they exist, would punish you for eternity.
If there is only one god, then your chance of worshipping it, and not a nonexistent entity instead, is one out of infinity.
Therefore you will almost surely fail to pick up the correct "One True God".
So if a god does exist, the chance of you going to any variety of heaven is infinitesimal, regardless of whether you are religious or not.
The broader problem with Pascal's wager-style arguments is that it is almost impossible to perform calculations involving both infinitesimals and infinities: zero times infinity is undefined.
And no one of them can answer how did these laws become formed. Not "discovered", since people can determine the laws of science, given our minds, but formed, prior to matter ever appearing.
Physics were discovered, and the laws (in the sense of formulas and sentences), based on those discoveries, were formulated in order to calculate with them. But the bases are invariable, whether you formulate them or not.
It's called "better overestimate than underestimate", if by any means you'll find that both soul and devil exist, you're at a great loss, since a loss of soul to devil is hard to repair (the Church says it's possible tho, but one has to accept a lot prior to applying for help).
this is just pascals wager and I have 2 things to prove that it can't really be applied to real life. This and terry pratchett version which is
Possibly the gods exist, and possibly they do not. So why not believe in them in any case? If it's all true you'll go to a lovely place when you die, and if it isn't then you've lost nothing, right?" When the philosopher died, "he woke up in a circle of gods holding nasty-looking sticks and one of them said, 'We're going to show you what we think of Mr Clever **** in these parts...
Why? The following text does not explain anything, and is a pure speculation. Scientific theories so far cannot explain why is the physics like that. I know they are trying, at least I'll be glad if they'll find the Higgs.
Look if physics was some other way we wouldn't be here and it has to be one way. If it was any other we wouldn't be here to wonder. Since we are here to wonder it must be this way in this universe. And if physics were any other way what is stopping the argument why isn't it the way we have it.
Do you even understand the theories?
I seriously doubt anyone on this forum has beyond a base understanding of these theories.
That is my point. Agreeing something you have no idea on is moronic. It is like a blind man arguing about paint color.
Good point, applying this to God, claiming to know that God exists let alone which God or even how many would fall under this as well.
Okay, I have to jump in and say something. I know their are people on this forum who don't agree with what the original post was stating, but here's what I have to say: Faith is something you feel, not what you think. When I came to accept Christ, something so powerful that you can't explain it happens. I think that applies to Christianity and every other religion out there. All I know is that there is a God and I wouldn't be here without him. Twice in my life have I know a miracle to happen. Once with myself, and once with my mother. God saved us when medically, there was no hope and doctors had given up. After that happening to me, it's hard for me to ever say that there isn't a God. )
Faith is something you feel, not what you think.
And that's why most Christians have Christian parents, Muslims have Muslim parents etc.?
When I came to accept Christ, something so powerful that you can't explain it happens. I think that applies to Christianity and every other religion out there
How can you feel the same if the power comes from Jesus? Buddhists don't believe in a God, do they feel the same? Is this power necessarily from God or is it just your brain (like a placebo or something)?
Twice in my life have I know a miracle to happen
How do you distinguish between a miracle and something that happens very rarely?
Okay, I have to jump in and say something. I know their are people on this forum who don't agree with what the original post was stating, but here's what I have to say:\\
So does that mean that you won't be follow up posting?
Faith is something you feel, not what you think.
So why think with your gut rather than your head? That is the kind of thinking that crashes cars. "Well, using my head I know I could never make that jump. But I feel I can" doesn't cut it.
When I came to accept Christ, something so powerful that you can't explain it happens.
That is the same thing Muslims had said, except substituting Mahmud in for Jebuhazus. Emotion is a horrible thing to declare reality over. Once again "Well when I thought that this pill cured cancer, I was filled with happiness and excitement. Thus it must be true! Even if it is just sugar" doesn't cut it.
I think that applies to Christianity and every other religion out there.
So that means that you are all wrong. I don't see your point there.
All I know is that there is a God and I wouldn't be here without him.
And you "know this" do to a subjective "feeling"? Last I checked, only an idiot takes that for proof.
Twice in my life have I know a miracle to happen. Once with myself, and once with my mother. God saved us when medically, there was no hope and doctors had given up.
So, with many doctors working on your mother nonstop, with a ton of medical science, who just happen to doubt that your mother could live somehow proves a deity? That may be more impressive if no doctors where working, or if no religious person ever died of whatever threatened her, but otherwise it was medical science and the doctors who saved her. Not a god.
After that happening to me, it's hard for me to ever say that there isn't a God. )
Many died painfully in several powerful earthquakes, a tsunami, and man made nuclear explosions. Just a few months ago. With natural disasters happening like this almost every five years, it is hard for anyone to say that there is a deity of any kind.
I know their are people on this forum who don't agree with what the original post was stating, but here's what I have to say: Faith is something you feel, not what you think.
If it's something you feel and not what you think then it's not something you can claim to know. Also feelings can be very misleading. For example a child may feel like there is a monster under their bed, but the reality is far from what this feeling is telling them.
When I came to accept Christ, something so powerful that you can't explain it happens. I think that applies to Christianity and every other religion out there.
Sorry the claims are to varying and at odds for you all to be right. And each one can claim with the same level of "feelings" that they are right.
Twice in my life have I know a miracle to happen. Once with myself, and once with my mother. God saved us when medically, there was no hope and doctors had given up. After that happening to me, it's hard for me to ever say that there isn't a God. )
Sounds like your just taking an event you can't explain and simply claiming "God did it".
*sigh* Pascal's wager... what you said only works if there is only christianism or no christianism to consider. Strangely, there are many more religions, whose "right path" aren't always very compatible, so you would undergo a phenomenal risk in trying one direction anyway.Okay, Pascal's wager, haven't read about it though prior to posting So why don't you wager on that God exists? Currently your position is the opposite. About "what is the right path" - I've said already that I know which religion is based on God entirely, so I'm a follower. If you can't choose, wait and think, just don't wait up to your death.
Falling out of an airplane at over 33,330 feet in the air has insanely low odds of survival.Do estimate the chances. You're AGAIN equalling 1e-9 to 1e-4516.
Can you tell me honestly why F theory, String theory, super string theory and M theory can not be correct? Can you show me where in the calculations that an error occured to discredit said theories?Why should I ever? You have the burden of proof here. And even if they are correct, they don't prove that there's no God.
If you believe in a single God, you will have to choose one out of infinite possible varieties.Wrong statement. First of all, whatever is the man's creation is not God. So shemales with dildos, spaghetti monsters and invisible unicorns are idols and nothing more. This leaves several ancient religions and God of Israel. Choosing between these is a lot easier, and even if I'd miss, I'd find out that being a generally good person leads to equivalent of heaven in all of them. And tell me please Avorne, what miracles did Vishnu ever made?
If it was any other we wouldn't be here to wonder.Wrong proposition. "WE" as entities might not be here indeed, but two differently structured beings could exist and discuss that alternate set of physics laws. Your statement equals "We are here, so the laws of physics can't be anything else than what they are". This being true right now, and I'm speaking of the time prior to Big Bang, since someone like you stated that time was there prior to Big Bang. (Can be mistaking about the author of this)
But the bases are invariable, whether you formulate them or not.The question is, why the bases (laws of physics) are like this? You said science discovered what are these laws - good, but not enough.
Faith is something you feel, not what you think. When I came to accept Christ, something so powerful that you can't explain it happens. I think that applies to Christianity and every other religion out there. All I know is that there is a God and I wouldn't be here without him. Twice in my life have I know a miracle to happen. Once with myself, and once with my mother. God saved us when medically, there was no hope and doctors had given up. After that happening to me, it's hard for me to ever say that there isn't a God. )Interesting evidence. Did this contact make you love God?
So, with many doctors working on your mother nonstop, with a ton of medical science, who just happen to doubt that your mother could live somehow proves a deity?Post misread, argument failure. "Doctors give up" literally means that the patient is dying and medicine can't do anything to restore that person's health. "Doubt" is a common condition, while here is a certainty of failure been declared.
Sounds like your just taking an event you can't explain and simply claiming "God did it".Sounds like you are plain trolling the kid. Try trolling me if you dare.
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