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No more Armor Points.

Posted Aug 20, '12 at 1:14am

CommanderPaladin

CommanderPaladin

1,548 posts

I'm sure you could rate all the games in a week by devoting an hour of two of your time.


Actually, I'm on an average of twice that daily. And it still took me that long.

top 100

#1: Firetail_Madness
Joined January 2008
55,729 AP
912 games rated (1,824 AP from games rated)

#2: Ernie15
Joined November 2008
45,807 AP
1,111 games rated (2,222 AP from games rated)

et cetera.
You were saying?

There are less than thirty forumers, and only a fraction of that actively post.


Can you back this up? It certainly seems that there are more names than that posting. And I'm not referring to the dumpy stuff, I mean the good threads.

more like an alley dumpster.


WERP, AWP and Cen's famous Tavern thread are dumpster scum. Got it.

Now really, I think you're seriously undercutting the forums here. Sure, there's a certain amount of carp present, but the Mods do a good job of catching and frying it so the rest of us can feast on the intelligent (or at least non-stupid) goodness that is more abundant.

Their number one source of income are games and the people that play them.
ArmorGames wouldn't lose a significant amount of money if they decided to delete the forums.


How is it that they're making money? I don't recall having to fork over money to sign up or pay a forum toll to post. And the few games that have "pay-to-get-bonus-stuff" material send their profits to the games' creator. The forums have no affect on AG finances.

That's chatting.

A form. Another is the pointless "how are you" "what's up" etc. conversations. I've read a lot of conversations on this site. Most of the comments in a conversation like that are only a few words long. That's the chatting I'm talking about. The people that usually make fifty comments a day asking generic questions. That's the kind of chatting that the rule is talking about. It even says more than a few messages between users a day can be considered spam. It says if you want to carry long conversations use a chat service.


And that's also the stuff that gets *ahem* dealt with. Most of the generic type stuff in the Tavern for example has been and is being removed, and the bulk of the "question threads" that remain are things with some meat on their bones, like "Your Most Painful Physical Experience" for example.
And I'm inclined to doubt that the "more than a few" messages we've exchanged in our three-thread duel/debate will be marked as spammish.
I don't think you're giving the forums and the Mods who patrol them enough credit here. However, this is starting to go off-topic.

My point about this is that points can be abused through chat-spam and nobody cares about that, even though it's stated in the rules. Changing from this very flawed system will be better. The only way achievements will be abused is if people hack, and that is unlikely. A lot of people here don't possess the knowledge for that and I'm sure they'll have security.


And your point is taken, even if it is more than a little cynical. Any system can be abused. However, the Mods and other support staff do what the can to control and remove the spammish content that arises.
As to achievements, what makes you think people won't find a way to abuse them? At the rate that people are becoming more and more technologically saturated these days, there's probably quite a few people with the technical chops to hack in and make a mess. And someone will probably also find a way to cheat without hacking. No matter what system you use, sooner or later someone will find a way to abuse it. (Guess I'm the one being cynical now. But the fact remains that changing systems won't change that some people will always abuse it.)

Respect isn't earned from the amount of AP you have.


I'm not saying that it is. What I mean is that AP can act as a barometer for the length and quality of your tenure here and therefore can indicate who is worthy of being looked to for guidance on the site and credible,or at least well-put opinions in debate. Of course it's not foolproof, but it can help.

It's an indicator of how active you've been. Nothing more. There are users with 4k AP that have been here for four years, there are users with 15k+ AP that have been here for a few months, etc.


I've been here a year and I only have 3,250 and some change.
There are always the extremes of the issue; without that you'd have no middle ground.
A good case for the point I'm making here and above would be who I sought out for help earlier in my presence on AG. I looked for someone who had been here awhile, was frequently active in the forums, and had a good level of experience. I used the choices' levels of AP, juxtaposed against how often they cropped up in the forums, to help make those determinations, and I ended up going to Cenere for assistance. That turned out to be a good choice. My point is that AP can be more than a useless number.

what we have now is better

How?


I suppose that once boiled down to the basics, this is all highly subjective. However, I, and I'm sure many others, find that the current system is less complicated and more straightforward than the proposed replacement. With what we have now, you know that if you make a post, you get one point, if you rate a game, you get two points, and if your post was spam, you're going to lose that point sometime soon. It's more definite in its cause and effect that arbitrarily being awarded "karma" or whatever they're calling it now just for showing up and playing a game or two. Also, the AP system seems like it would be easier to use when meting out punishment. The offender, let's say a spammer, loses APs for his spammish posts. It's a very definite cause and effect, and it punishes based directly on the offense. How would that same situation be dealt with if everyone is being ranked based on how long their logged in? How do you meter "karma" equivalent to X number of spam posts or other offenses that fall short of a ban?
It just seems like the AGv3 replacement is more obfuscated and complicated than the current system, which despite any faults is still well-established and reasonably well-liked.

_____
I must say, Ghost, our three-thread debate has been most interesting, and your points have been well-played. The kind of discussion we've been having is the heart and soul of the forums.
 

Posted Aug 20, '12 at 3:25am

GhostOfMatrix

GhostOfMatrix

15,472 posts

Knight

Actually, I'm on an average of twice that daily.

I'm not saying actually playing the games. Just rating.
You were saying?

Keep going through that list, and the MONTHLY leaderboard. I'm not going to name names as that's bad conduct, but you'll see them.
Can you back this up?

Forumers, as in the regulars. Yes, you have a bunch of newbies that come around and post occasionally, I'm not counting those. Even if I did it still wouldn't make a significant impact.
WERP, AWP and Cen's famous Tavern thread are dumpster scum.

I was speaking in general. There are some jewels out there, but that doesn't mean the whole place is like that. I was also speaking about how the forum is set up, not the threads. We have several glitches that make using this forum a pain in the butt, and we are missing several necessary features all modern forums have.
How is it that they're making money?

From the ones who don't use an adblocker. You're clicking around the site and seeing ads, and that's how AG makes some money; ad revenue.
And that's also the stuff that gets *ahem* dealt with.

I'm not talking about the forum, I'm talking about comments on user pages. You have people here who have thousands of comments and they got those by using AG as a chat service, which is against a rule. Those don't get dealt with. Just look through the top 100 and you'll see a lot of people with over 4k comments. Some of them probably don't use this as a chat service and actually comment a few times a day on games or responding to messages, but most of them use AG as a chat service. There's no doubt the people with over 6k do.
As to achievements, what makes you think people won't find a way to abuse them?

They will, but it will be less than what it is now. I'm speaking from experience on Kongregate, a site with achievements and a way larger user base. Sure they get people hacking, but they have things in place to spot them, then effectively deal with them.
sooner or later someone will find a way to abuse it.

Of course, nothing they can come up with is foolproof, but they can make it more difficult and actually challenge users to gain armor points. Actually playing games and progressing to get points, instead of the easy and mundane rating, commenting, and posting, which take little effort.

My point is that AP can be more than a useless number.

A rare sight. The people who only care about gaining armor points overshadows that.
if you make a post, you get one point, if you rate a game, you get two points, and if your post was spam, you're going to lose that point sometime soon.

And you'll get points in AG3 for posting, just a different version of it. How ratings work now is pathetic. You can rate as many games as you like without even playing them. If they decide to keep points for rating, they should limit how many you can rate a day--I'd say 50--and make sure you are on the page for a few minutes. This will hinder those that just rate for points, and take more time out of their day.
being awarded "karma" or whatever they're calling it now just for showing up and playing a game or two.

It's called reputation and that's not what it's going to be. It's going to be an up/down vote system similar to Imgur. Comparing it to Imgur because they have ranks, but if you've never browsed there then it'll be similar to YouTube. Just without the ranks. When you make a post or comment, people will have the ability to either upvote or downvote it.
I understand the cons of this system, but if they restrict how much you can up/down vote a day and a notification system that tells them when there's a suspicious amount of up/down votes, this will work fine.

Achievements will be the new armor points. Not to be confused with reputation, reputation is something new. You'll earn achievements from games; check Kongregate for example.

If you're worried about punishment stuff, I read a post from Cormyn in the reputation thread that being warned or banned will affect it in some way. However since we haven't had any admin participation here in about a year, that may not still be planned.
 

Posted Sep 8, '12 at 3:48pm

mohammed9000

mohammed9000

1 post

I Think Keeping The Rating System (serf, knight, prince, king, etc) is Good Because It Shows How A Player Likes Communicating. Thanks

 

Posted Sep 8, '12 at 4:06pm

Patrick2011

Patrick2011

11,594 posts

I Think Keeping The Rating System (serf, knight, prince, king, etc) is Good Because It Shows How A Player Likes Communicating.


The plan is to include a ranking system, but AP will be for game achievements rather than community involvement.
 

Posted Sep 9, '12 at 12:50am

Jefferysinspiration

Jefferysinspiration

3,236 posts

The plan is to include a ranking system, but AP will be for game achievements rather than community involvement.


And I believe they'll keep the medieval themed ranking system. Maybe a few changes.
 

Posted Sep 18, '12 at 5:33pm

MrDayCee

MrDayCee

9,145 posts

Moderator

And I believe they'll keep the medieval themed ranking system. Maybe a few changes.


I can swear I've seen cormyn state that very fact back in the days when he was active, but Dan still didn't know what he wanted to do with it and what the format was going to be...

I'm really hoping they're going to keep it in a similar form of the current ranking with all the nice thumbnail images and then add some more to expand it! It was what looked nice and got me interested when I joined back in 2009. I even suggested a complete new and extended ranking based on the current one at the beginning of this thread. =)
 

Posted Oct 11, '12 at 7:29pm

nonfatcow

nonfatcow

13 posts

the armatar award system should be changed. you get pictures at the most random amounts.

 

Posted Oct 13, '12 at 3:30am

MrDayCee

MrDayCee

9,145 posts

Moderator

the armatar award system should be changed. you get pictures at the most random amounts.


And it probably will be changed with the new AG# nonfatcow, but how it's going to be and what's it going to look like still isn't clear and probably won't be untill either the launch itself or when an admin posts it in an official notification. ;)

As for the current system and (how you call it) 'random amounts' you can unlock the armatars with... the spaces between those AP counts are actually well chosen if you ask me! They have a steady increase in number towards the highest amount and make for a nice curve to stimulate activity to the user. =)
 

Posted Oct 13, '12 at 4:49pm

Armpit

Armpit

803 posts

you get pictures at the most random amounts.


They aren't random at all. 1750 makes more sense than 1700, and 375 makes far more sense than 382. You want random, convince the admins to put an armatar at 4361 AP.
 

Posted Oct 14, '12 at 6:39am

MrDayCee

MrDayCee

9,145 posts

Moderator

You want random, convince the admins to put an armatar at 4361 AP.


Why not have a wheel of fortune you can spin then?! =)

Spin it and see what it awards you with! Maybe it's a nice new armatar you like, maybe it's a terrible one... but you would have to use it anyway! Think before you play... keeps things excited! ;)
 
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