ForumsWEPRLeft wing economics

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thelistman
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thelistman
1,416 posts
Shepherd

Everyone that I know who calls themselves a "Socialist" or "Communist" is an extreme hypocrite. A simple definition of Socialism is where âproperty and the distribution of wealth are subject to control by the community.â Socialism also calls for Workerâs Councils to take over the means of production. It is a working class movement. I can respect an organized working class. I am going to be a teacher in the future and will make crap for a salary. But that is my choice. Capitalism gives me equal opportunity to pick my career. I could have been an engineer making at least $50K first year. But because of Capitalism, I have a choice. And I decided to become a teacher. I believe in the Capitalist system because it makes people work for their money. Socialism is an oppressive system that tries to stop the natural order of economics.

Something I have seen lately is the number of âSocialistsâ who have appeared amongst the youth of America. Are they here to go against their parents? Maybe. Every generation has children who do not agree with their parents. Are they here to start a revolution? Possibly... All generations have their âwanna-be revolutionaries.â Or are they here because they want to stir things up? This is what I think they are after. From what I have seen the average left-economist has been a spoiled, rich, drugged up, white kid who wants to rebel against society.

All of my friends who claim to have left-wing economic values are all white and are from wealthy families. I find it a bit weird that they continually talk about how the "white race" oppresses everyone. Even as they argue this, they continually do things to bring down the working class and minorities.

One of my college friends who labels himself as a âleftist socialist revolutionaryâ grows marijuana and sells it for a huge profit. I noticed most of his customers were of ethnic minorities as well. When I asked how this was compatible with Socialism and racial equality, he ignored me at first. He later explained that marijuana was a symbol for the leftist movement. He never explained how selling it for huge profits was compatible with his beliefs though. I continued to press him on the issue, and all he could come up with was âIâm spreading the love equally like Socialism calls for!â His hypocrisy was so evident that I did not even have to continue questioning him.

Another friend of mine who claims Socialism is the greatest thing ever continuously shops at Wal-Mart, a massive corporation. She apparently has no problem with Wal-Mart and her economic beliefs, because she is ill-informed. I asked her if it was okay for a Socialist to shop at Wal-Mart, and she said it was no problem. She did not see the problem with it.

Another example of economic leftist hypocrisy that I have is within the gay community. I know several gay people from college. Many of them wear âCheâ t-shirts. If you do not know who Che is, then look here: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Che_Guevara, His photo on the right side is a symbol for Socialists and Communists across the globe. In fact, most Historians agree that it is the most important photo of all time. You can see his image on shirts like this: http://www.geocities.com/socialist_action/che.gif). Ernesto âCheâ Guevara was one of the most devoted Communists I have read about. Yet he had thousands of Christians killed for their beliefs. He had hundreds executed for owning large plots of land. More importantly for this argument, Che had thousands of people executed for being homosexual. Now how could any homosexual wear a t-shirt with Cheâs image on it? Economic left wingers love Che for his devotion to Socialism and Communism, yet they blind themselves to the fact that he was a ruthless killer of homosexuals, religious people, and those who owned land. This is yet another hypocrisy of left-wing economists.

The best example I have is of my geography teacher in college. He was a devout Communist. He denied the Cambodian and Bosnian genocides (both committed by Communists). He denied the purges of Stalin and the Ukranian Famine he caused. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_terror, and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor). Stalin killed more than Hitler, yet this teacher claimed Stalin was one of the most democratic rulers ever. This teacher stuck by his die-hard Communist ideology. But one day, I found him shopping in a Wal-Mart. Just like my friend who claimed to be a Socialist, this man was shopping in a Wal-Mart. I did not have to say anything to him, but once he saw me there, his face turned red and he walked away. The next class he kicked me out when I argued that the Bosnian genocide was real. In fact, I had just seen a video of Bosnians being killed, execution style, by Communist forces. He told me that the video was fake, and then he kicked me out of class. He could not deal with the truth, so he got rid of me... typical Socialist thought.

I know that we live in a Capitalist society. Socialists and Communists have to live by making money in the society that exists. But when they shop at Wal-Mart (instead of local âMa and Paâ stores), or when they sell drugs for unbelievable profits, or when they support a mass killer like Che, they are being complete hypocrites. I have to wonder about the devotion of these so called âSocialistsâ and âCommunists.â They can claim to be economic left-wingers all they want, but by their actions, they cannot deny their love for Capitalism.

  • 134 Replies
VoteSocialist
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VoteSocialist
950 posts
Nomad

owever if a billionaire were to pay his taxes, 90 cents out of every dollar he earned would be taken out.
since when is the tax rate in the us 90%?


The tax rate isn't going to be 90% for lower and middle class families, reread the darn post! If you take 90% of one billion dollars out in taxes, the other ten percent is a whole lot more than any middle class family could make under capitalism ( Unless they were millionaires. ) It would be very stupid to make the tax rate 90% nation wide.
Graham
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Graham
8,052 posts
Nomad

You do know how they are able to offer everything for cheap right?


yes =.=...feel like i have to explain everything, the ones who wall mart buys from sell in large amounts, wall mart gets it for cheaper than their set price so they make a profit. it's like costco. the sellers to wall mart would rather chop off a dollar than lose a large customer. wall mart can also wage a price war with other competing companies to get more customers.
IPwnU2Day
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IPwnU2Day
395 posts
Nomad

If you take 90% of one billion dollars out in taxes


So because a person worked hard and became succesful they should get the majority of their money taxed away. That makes sense...
donpiet
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donpiet
755 posts
Peasant

With a millionaire, maybe 70 cents out of a dollar

owever if a billionaire were to pay his taxes, 90 cents out of every dollar he earned would be taken out.
since when is the tax rate in the us 90%?


you still have to pay 90% takes when you are a billionaire. so the tax rates for these people would be 90%. i never talked about the middle class or poor people.

taking this amounts of money from the rich people will result in one thing,them maximizing their profit by either leaving the usa, or outsourcing their companies to canada and mexico.

so in order to create a stable workplace situation we should lower all taxes and motivate companies to invest money and create workplaces not destroy them by planting insanley high tax rates for everyone who earns more
VoteSocialist
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VoteSocialist
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Nomad

taking this amounts of money from the rich people will result in one thing,them maximizing their profit by either leaving the usa, or outsourcing their companies to canada and mexico.
so in order to create a stable workplace situation we should lower all taxes and motivate companies to invest money and create workplaces not destroy them by planting insanley high tax rates for everyone who earns more


You'll never have to use greed to get companies to help the economy out under socialism. And as I stated before, ten percent of one billion dollars is still more than enough to live off of. Maybe we should take out even more, say 95% to make them all middle class.

The "rich people" won't profit in socialism as much anymore, their money shall be distributed to the majority where it belongs. The lower and middle class families working in what you and I would call regular jobs ( i.e an office job ) would make more money, while the richest of people are taxed more. It's only fair.
donpiet
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donpiet
755 posts
Peasant

You'll never have to use greed to get companies to help the economy out under socialism


its not greed it is risk rewarding.
when you have a private capital out of your savings or through a bank loan, you can either start and spent it, or create workplaces by investing it and founding a company. as we all know having a company is linked to a lot of differnt risks.
so the person, who invests the capital shall get a reward for doing so.
if you have a share based company every worker can have an influence on the doing of the company through buying shares with his capital.

i do not think it is greedy or unfair, if people are allowed to decide what they want to do with their money.

or do you want to be forced to buy certain things or let others choose for you what you have to do.

and if you take this money away and everyone has the amount of money you get for working in the office, than why should i take risks and work hard while starting a company when i can do averagly and be an office worker.
this equal reward system has been the death to most socialist economies.
thats why china did shortly before their economy collapsed. they freed the market and people got a motivation to do more than they are supposed in order to get some more money
VoteSocialist
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VoteSocialist
950 posts
Nomad

its not greed it is risk rewarding.
when you have a private capital out of your savings or through a bank loan, you can either start and spent it, or create workplaces by investing it and founding a company. as we all know having a company is linked to a lot of differnt risks.
so the person, who invests the capital shall get a reward for doing so.
if you have a share based company every worker can have an influence on the doing of the company through buying shares with his capital.


That just doesn't happen under socialism when you have the community collectivly controlling the company. Now something similar to that might happen, but it wouldn't be for one person's profits.


i do not think it is greedy or unfair, if people are allowed to decide what they want to do with their money.
or do you want to be forced to buy certain things or let others choose for you what you have to do.
and if you take this money away and everyone has the amount of money you get for working in the office, than why should i take risks and work hard while starting a company when i can do averagly and be an office worker.
this equal reward system has been the death to most socialist economies.
thats why china did shortly before their economy collapsed. they freed the market and people got a motivation to do more than they are supposed in order to get some more money


Capitalism is greedy and unfair. The entire system is based upon people working only for themselves and doing everything the lucky elite tells them. How are you contributing to the community by trying to beat the other guy or saying "it's him or me' all the time? Why is it that only rich people get to be the President of the United States? Why do millionaires get better health care than I do? Why do they basically get to conquer public property? The entire system is based upon selfishness. There is not incentive to help the community intentionally under capitalism.
Graham
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Graham
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Nomad

It's only fair.

it's only fair to take your money and give it to unfortunate people

You'll never have to use greed to get companies to help the economy out under socialism.

when the money is distributed do you think that all of those people will give to the community? + Espionage of other companies

How are you contributing to the community by trying to beat the other guy or saying "it's him or me' all the time?


by having a price war, prices would get cheap and a spur of economic activity resulting in at least 1 person, by free will, helping out. ever heard of fundraisers?

Why is it that only rich people get to be the President of the United States?


popularity, successfulness, has Bill Gates been president yet?

Why do millionaires get better health care than I do?


they pay more, they have more, they're more successful

Why do they basically get to conquer public property?


money etc. etc.
VoteSocialist
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VoteSocialist
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Nomad

it's only fair to take your money and give it to unfortunate people


I know.



when the money is distributed do you think that all of those people will give to the community? + Espionage of other companies


We're not talking about a hippie commune, this is a system where if you don't work, we will not let you die but you won't be rewarded like some of the hardest workers.


by having a price war, prices would get cheap and a spur of economic activity resulting in at least 1 person, by free will, helping out. ever heard of fundraisers?


Why isn't that helping the United States recession? If people stop spending because prices are going up and pay checks aren't then that won't do much unless one company's prices are insane.

popularity, successfulness, has Bill Gates been president yet?


He hasn't even tried to run, I think he's more concerned with software and computer programming and his giant buissness than he is with politics.

they pay more, they have more, they're more successful


Can every single American be a millionaire at the same time if they all worked hard? Health insurance under capitalism has become prerogative of the rich.
Graham
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Graham
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Nomad

this is a system where if you don't work, we will not let you die

you must work for a living, the same applies to nature, also please explain how you wouldn't be rewarded as much if pay is evenly distributed

Why isn't that helping the United States recession?

way more factors went into that like mortgages and the stimulus that only caused inflation

Can every single American be a millionaire at the same time if they all worked hard?

and if they're smart about it, yes
VoteSocialist
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VoteSocialist
950 posts
Nomad

you must work for a living, the same applies to nature, also please explain how you wouldn't be rewarded as much if pay is evenly distributed


Then you would erase life out of "Life, Liberty, and Property".
VoteSocialist
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VoteSocialist
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Nomad

and if they're smart about it, yes



That is economically impossible unless our economy has collapsed.
Graham
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Graham
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Nomad

what i mean is if they take smart opportunities or investments, yes

and pursuit of happiness, not property

Zootsuit_riot
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Zootsuit_riot
1,523 posts
Nomad

and pursuit of happiness, not property


Wrong. The original version imposed by John Locke was "Life, liberty, and property," but they changed it in the Declaration of Independence.
Graham
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Graham
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Nomad

the original is not enacted, so has no use

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