Forums → WEPR → Heaven and Hell?
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I am catholic so I believe that there is heaven and hell. I do beleive that you have to do good in this world to be able to go to heaven but if you do evil and bad more than good in this world I do believe that you will go to hell.
Heaven it is hard to concept the thought of living for eternity in heaven and that everything would be perfect and everyone would be nice and kind.
Hell it is also very hard to think that you will be punished for many years until getting the chance to go to heaven. Also you could be in hell for eternity suffering if you do very bad things in this world.
What is you thought on heaven and hell?
Do you beleive in heaven and hell?
Do you think you will go to heaven or hell?
Is God really real?
Discuss, it can be short or long answers or views.
- 811 Replies
I think I have already explained this... But, alas, I will reexplain. Forgiveness requires true feelings of redemption. It's easy to say "I'm sorry" and it's just as easy to say "I don't believe you're sorry". It's just like a little child saying sorry for throwing a toy at you. He is most likely not sorry, and since you know this, you don't legitimately forgive him. The morals I get from your example is to not disprespect God, as only evil will sprout from it.
Woops. Forgot this.
I think I have already explained this... But, alas, I will reexplain. Forgiveness requires true feelings of redemption. It's easy to say "I'm sorry" and it's just as easy to say "I don't believe you're sorry". It's just like a little child saying sorry for throwing a toy at you. He is most likely not sorry, and since you know this, you don't legitimately forgive him. The morals I get from your example is to not disprespect God, as only evil will sprout from it.
Wait so god is like a mom for five year olds?
"Johny, say your sorry!"
"IM SORRY!"
"I don't think you meant it. Say it again, and this time mean it!"
That is hardly something we wont running our afterlife.
"Only evil will spout for it"? So that man, who was gathering firewood on the Sabbath, and was then stoned to death, teaches you not to mess with god? Where is the evil spouting from? The stoned man? The people stoning him? Who the hell is your god, who as to kill to make an example?
Aww. Triple post...
For the guy who asked about contradictions in the Bible, here is an entertaining Nonstampcolector video with a ton of em.
I am still wondering where you are getting all of this.Torture is inflicting pain on someone to punish them or to gain pleasure from it. By sinning, you make the decision of further separating yourself from God. Therefore, it is YOUR decision to "burn" away in the afterlife, not God's. God does not enjoy seeing you suffer, he "cries", so to speak. I've interpreted this from teachings at church and the bible.
Burning=torture. Or do you have a different definition of torture?
And the second coming? In Revelations? Do you believe in Revelations, where the world comes to a horrible bloody end?
But the difference is in this case, the robber came to both of us and told us what happened, and then told us to write a book on it. We would not put any of our own feelings in it, but what the robber said.Not all the disciples shared the same experiences with Jesus. If you were to read the bible, you would discover that each book has the story of Jesus, and the author's interpretation of his accounts. They are not all the same. The different perspectives help with the thinking process. Why just have one perspective, with no other insight, when you can have different sides of the same story and gain more insight? It's not a hard concept...
And why not? There are thousands of words in the English language, I am sure you could describe it in good detail.Even with all of the words in the English language, feeling often gets lost during the translation to written word. Since there are many words that have the same meaning in English, it's tough to find a word that is significant enough to pour out what you actually feel. A divine being doesn't tell you what you feel, you determine that.
Especially if a divine being is telling you what to say.
Wait, he uses magic to make people...Feel things? And then write it down?I don't understand your ways of argument... You are trying to debate a serious matter, yet you mock me. How is that even respectful? Back on topic. He doesn't use magic. I never said that, and I clearly stated that he inspires people. His messages come in many different ways. He allowed the disciples to live among Jesus, and study and pray with him. Instead of keeping all of their newfound spiritual knowledge to themselves, they wrote it down for others, and thus, the New Testament was created.
Wait...I am getting a feeling right now. Oh look. It is god. He is saying to transfer all your money to my accounts, at this moment. And to stop believing in him. Don't question it. In that order.
So that is still a contradiction...The temple was often a place of commerce. Governments, for the most part, revolved around the religion of the society. Judas could have bought land from the temple, and then committed suicide. Notice how the verse from Acts depicts what happened after Judas died. He hung himself, fell, then his bowels flooded out, just like any other normal person.
How did Judas die?
Torture is inflicting pain on someone to punish them or to gain pleasure from it. By sinning, you make the decision of further separating yourself from God. Therefore, it is YOUR decision to "burn" away in the afterlife, not God's. God does not enjoy seeing you suffer, he "cries", so to speak. I've interpreted this from teachings at church and the bible.
What teachings, exactly?
So basically lets say this is happening with a mother and her young daughter. The daughter is like three. Lets say the daughter one day decides to do a minor crime, like steal a candy bar. Would you call it torture if the mother had abandoned the kid? It was, after all, the kid's own choice that drove the mother away, who cares if she starves?
And be sides that, this is what torture means. The burning you describe fits numbers 4 and 5 of the noun, and arguably some of the others.
Not all the disciples shared the same experiences with Jesus. If you were to read the bible, you would discover that each book has the story of Jesus, and the author's interpretation of his accounts.
I did read the Bible. And I seem to remember half of it being Jewish and having no Jesus whatsoever.
They are not all the same. The different perspectives help with the thinking process. Why just have one perspective, with no other insight, when you can have different sides of the same story and gain more insight? It's not a hard concept...
Are facts a hard concept for you to understand?
Alright, lets go back to the robber scene. Sure, you may interpret his motives differently, but the story will still be the same. If you where to ask us both if he shot the cashier, we would both give the same answer. The bible doesn't give the same answer, one will say that he just stone the money and ran, while the other says that he maliciously slaughtered all of the workers and stole the money. It isn't "Oh. Look how he interpreted it!" kind of thing.
Now lets take this back to court. If, in a court, two witnesses give you different accounts, can you believe all accounts?
Even with all of the words in the English language, feeling often gets lost during the translation to written word. Since there are many words that have the same meaning in English, it's tough to find a word that is significant enough to pour out what you actually feel. A divine being doesn't tell you what you feel, you determine that.
Wait..How you feel about facts?
Back to the court. If witnesses said "I feel like it was him. I have a strong, inner emotion that says he killed the cashier", are you going to believe him? This is history, witnesses of an event, it isn't a feeling that you get. Did the events happen as they say they did in the Bible or not?
I don't understand your ways of argument... You are trying to debate a serious matter, yet you mock me. How is that even respectful?
Your religion does not deserve my expect, and in fact deserves nothing but to be abolished.
Back on topic. He doesn't use magic. I never said that, and I clearly stated that he inspires people. His messages come in many different ways. He allowed the disciples to live among Jesus, and study and pray with him. Instead of keeping all of their newfound spiritual knowledge to themselves, they wrote it down for others, and thus, the New Testament was created.
And thus an upwards of a thousand lies where born. Wait, I thought you said he inspired them and gave them feelings? Did he inspire them, or did he allow them to live among Jesus?
The temple was often a place of commerce. Governments, for the most part, revolved around the religion of the society. Judas could have bought land from the temple, and then committed suicide. Notice how the verse from Acts depicts what happened after Judas died. He hung himself, fell, then his bowels flooded out, just like any other normal person.
What?
Acts 1:18
Now this man [Judas] purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.
How in the hell does someone who hangs himself fall "headlong"? Did he hang himself by his toes? "Burst asunder in the midst and all his bowels gushed out", got tore open and had all his guts fall out. What suicides have you been observing when the guts break open and fall out? Where aliens involved?
And the NIV that the guy originally posted shows him "Throwing away" the money, not spending it. I don't speak Hebrew, but it sure sounds like it means something like "Gave the money to the temple without getting land in return", not anything else.
Have you actually read any of the passages?
Common sense, I suppose. It would seem kind of moronic for an almighty God to let a heartless tyrant into heaven without true feelings of redemption.
But the Bible clearly states that all who repent will enter Heaven and that Jesus loves all and accepts all, so long as they repent and accept him. Common sense and your judgment does not matter to God.
But the Bible clearly states that all who repent will enter Heaven and that Jesus loves all and accepts all, so long as they repent and accept him. Common sense and your judgment does not matter to God.I was taught that God cared about me and how I felt. Didn't God care about Abraham's judgement about the innocents when he was about to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah?
What teachings, exactly?I don't see how you could compare a little girl stealing candy to a spiritual eventuality that lands on a much greater scale. And in any sense, if I were to commit a minor crime like the girl, God isn't going to drop me off a cliff and abandon me. He never abandons anyone, for any reason. While it is the girls fault that she drove her own mother away, the girl did not ask for forgiveness. In the end, however, the mother would still love her child. It's just like the prodigal son.
So basically lets say this is happening with a mother and her young daughter. The daughter is like three. Lets say the daughter one day decides to do a minor crime, like steal a candy bar. Would you call it torture if the mother had abandoned the kid? It was, after all, the kid's own choice that drove the mother away, who cares if she starves?
And be sides that, this is what torture means. The burning you describe fits numbers 4 and 5 of the noun, and arguably some of the others.
I did read the Bible. And I seem to remember half of it being Jewish and having no Jesus whatsoever.The later books of the Hebrew Bible forshadow Jesus coming to Earth. It is also wise to acknowledge these two facts: Christianity is a continuation of Judaism, so it is only logical that they would use the same book, and also, Jews believe in the Messiah, they just don't think that Jesus was him.
Are facts a hard concept for you to understand?While some details may differ, it is the same basic story. If two different people say the same general story, are they both lying because of minor inconsistencies? Each disciple also shares different experiences with God. If one book has a story that another book doesn't, that doesn't mean that the story is false, it's just another experience and a lesson.
Alright, lets go back to the robber scene. Sure, you may interpret his motives differently, but the story will still be the same. If you where to ask us both if he shot the cashier, we would both give the same answer. The bible doesn't give the same answer, one will say that he just stone the money and ran, while the other says that he maliciously slaughtered all of the workers and stole the money. It isn't "Oh. Look how he interpreted it!" kind of thing.
Now lets take this back to court. If, in a court, two witnesses give you different accounts, can you believe all accounts?
Wait..How you feel about facts?We are talking about lingual representations of passionate feelings, yo. While I can see how you've tied this to the court case, I believe that you might be getting skewed away from what I was trying to stay. Sure, while there may be a factual and definitive definition for a word, my opinion on the definition may be different based on my experiences. A heartbroken man might describe love as "a beautiful creature, until it snatches your hand off" whereas the literal definition could not and would not include such feelings.
Back to the court. If witnesses said "I feel like it was him. I have a strong, inner emotion that says he killed the cashier", are you going to believe him? This is history, witnesses of an event, it isn't a feeling that you get. Did the events happen as they say they did in the Bible or not?
Your religion does not deserve my expect, and in fact deserves nothing but to be abolished.I meant towards me. If you don't have respect, fine then, that's why we are debating, isn't it? But you don't show any respect for me, when I see you as an equal human. If this is a debate, let's try to stay out of the namecalling and mockery that accompanies small children.
And thus an upwards of a thousand lies where born. Wait, I thought you said he inspired them and gave them feelings? Did he inspire them, or did he allow them to live among Jesus?Both, young sir. God allowed them to live with Jesus so that they could learn the knowledge he possessed. One of the teachings of Jesus was selflessness, and so taking from that, they decided to create a book about Jesus' teachings.
What?It is common knowledge that when a person dies, their bowels are emptied. Bowels, not guts, is feces. Notice it says "gushing" and not "imploding". If you hang yourself, yes, you are hanging by your head. But there is a thing called wind that, if I am correct, still exists today. Besides that, there are a thousand possibilities on how Judas could have fell.
Acts 1:18
Now this man [Judas] purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.
How in the hell does someone who hangs himself fall "headlong"? Did he hang himself by his toes? "Burst asunder in the midst and all his bowels gushed out", got tore open and had all his guts fall out. What suicides have you been observing when the guts break open and fall out? Where aliens involved?
And the NIV that the guy originally posted shows him "Throwing away" the money, not spending it. I don't speak Hebrew, but it sure sounds like it means something like "Gave the money to the temple without getting land in return", not anything else.I'm pretty sure that's english, not hebrew , but wasn't Judas throwing away the money by spending it on his suicide site? How did this help anybody? He could have donated the money to a charity fund or bought food for the needy!
Have you actually read any of the passages?Yes, yes I have.
"Only evil will spout for it"? So that man, who was gathering firewood on the Sabbath, and was then stoned to death, teaches you not to mess with god? Where is the evil spouting from? The stoned man? The people stoning him? Who the hell is your god, who as to kill to make an example?That man who died, taught many people the lesson I have presented. And also, did God say "Stone that man to the point of death!" ?
I was taught that God cared about me and how I felt. Didn't God care about Abraham's judgement about the innocents when he was about to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah?
I never said that God does not care about you, but your judgment has no affect about who is accepted into Heaven by God. Your moral consent is unambiguous to God. Whether you feel an action is morally just or unjust, God has a predetermined answer to those seeking acceptance to Heaven. You being only a human means that your every thought is flawed compared to the almighty God. This is also a contradiction to the example you just presented, but I won't get into that, seeing as it is off-topic and now nearly daybreak and I still haven't slept.
If two different people say the same general story, are they both lying because of minor inconsistencies?
No, but it shows that it's not a perfect book. If it were truly God's perfect direct word of a single truth, there would be no inconsistencies. He would 'inspire' the writers to omit such discrepancies.
And also, did God say "Stone that man to the point of death!" ?
Yes. He said that their laws and penalties for their people in their nation should be the same for visiting foreigners. As He commanded, they carried out that law.
He could have donated the money to a charity fund or bought food for the needy!
Nope, it was considered blood money. No one would accept it. The treasury where he threw it down, if you take that side, bought some land themselves because they weren't allowed to keep it there by law. The other story says Judas bought the land. Who was the real owner of that land? Judas or the state?
Matthew and Acts were written by two completely different people, for one. Also, the Acts verse is more than likely a parable.
It doesn't matter, they are giving to completely different accounts of the supposed same story. If you want to claim that it's God inspired this makes the contradiction in the story even worse.
I, for one, am not afraid of death, yet I still believe in a type of afterlife.
I was using the term fear in a rather generalized sense. I'm pretty sure if faced with the possibility of dying verses living your reaction would be to try and survive. This "fight or flight" response is what I was referring to. The prospect of an afterlife in most cases does little to nothing to alleviate this response. This is interesting in that if one truly believed they would continue on, particularly in a better place, it should be of little to no consequence to them whether they continued in this form or not.
If Heaven Really Existed
I don't follow God just for a golden ticket into eternal bliss. I follow God to better myself as a person. I was once selfish and ignorant, but since then, I have evolved into a half-decent person.
I'm glad you improved your self as a person. Though there are plenty of things in the Bible directly issued by God that if you followed would make you a horrible person. I'm pretty sure you don't follow those parts of the Bible. This would mean you are actually following your own morality rather than the Bibles and have just given up credit of your own accomplishments.
"Human decency is not derived from religion. It precedes it." -Christopher Hitchens
Believing in God doesn't get you into heaven, as you seem to think. Carrying the beatitudes does.
That sure seems contrary to what the Bible is saying.
Also, I should probably rephrase parable to metaphor, sorry for the misunderstanding
Sure, just one is a metaphor. The other story of the same event is totally the truth.... >_>
heaven is real:
"heaven on earth"
hell is real as well:
"your a living hell!"
heaven is real:
"heaven on earth"
hell is real as well:
"your a living hell!"
Something that's also real is word play.
It is common knowledge that when a person dies, their bowels are emptied. Bowels, not guts, is feces.
The Greek word (ÎνÏεÏο that was translated to bowels was the same word for intestines. They meant the guts, not his poo.
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