Forums → WEPR → Environmentalism

Too bad Spain is ranked 12th in percentage of renewable energy use... in the European Union.

That was not the point. The point was he was saying that the people where making "Overpriced oil deals", witch as we both know is simply not true.

Really? I have always heard that it was somewhere between 1.442 trillion barrels and 198 billion barrels, depending on what we are calling "recoverable oil". And America only uses what, 18 million a day?

While impressive, you must take into account that France uses far less energy than the U.S. For example, the U.S produces more energy from nuclear power then France does, but it doesn't even cover 20% of our energy needs.

"Atheism? Communist."

The United States will never change to nuclear energy however. After the incident of three-mile island, what happened in Chernobyl, and even Japan, it just isn't going to happen. A nuclear reactor hasn't broken ground since 1974, and a couple are even still in production due to lack of funding and interest.

And if you don't think there is enough evidence for global warming check out this graph.

Many green energies out there have the potential to be cost effective and save the planet at the same time, we only have to stop putting vast amounts of effort and resources developing the hydrocarbon fuel system we use today.

Saudi Arabia only has 267 billion barrels left, and they are the second largest producer. Don't know where you got your sensationalist trillion barrels. The less than a billion barrels is in the NPRA, if you consider the whole ANWR, it's between 5.7 and 10 billion barrels.

You are as likely to die from being struck by lightning than as a result of nuclear energy which is 10,000,000 / 1.

Ah, potential being the keyword. Many of the ideas I've seen so far are heavily in the other direction. Hydrogen cars are hopelessly expensive and explode. Ethanol is less efficient to gasoline on a ratio of 3:2, and think of all the extra corn that is needed to grow; The US uses 88 million gallons a day, and one acre yields 328 gallons of ethanol, meaning approximately 268, 293 acres A DAY dedicated to only corn.

Turning off the water while you brush your teeth saves two gallons of water a minute if it's on full blast, which is like crushing a mosquito and proclaiming you're helping stop malaria or yellow fever.

Actually, the US does have upwards of 1.442 trillion barrels. The only problem with that is that massive percentage of it aren't just hanging out in a underground oil lake. They're buried in shale, and sand, and may not be recoverable, being considered 'unconventional'. Like stated earlier, about 198 billion barrels can be labeled as 'recoverable'.

Wrong.

In my country, the atheists are generally the conservatives. Wait a minute... another discussion turning into a religious debate? Surely not?

Oil shale is not oil at all. It is finely-grained sedimentary rock ��" more properly known as organic marlstone ��" infused with kerogen, not oil. Kerogen is a dense blend of ancient algae and pond scum, and is an essential ingredient in oil and natural gas. But transforming kerogen to oil requires millennia, coupled with intense heat and crushing geologic pressure. Otherwise the kerogen remains a relatively energy-poor waxy deposit in sedimentary rocks, such as oil shale.

No one claims that doing so is doing anything great or dramatic. But if you multiply it by 365, you get close to 800 gallons saved a year. Multiply this by just a thousand people in a small town, and this becomes close to a million. That's a lot of water. Considering that more and more of our fresh water has to be treated with highly energised procedures such as desalination, or reverse osmosis, this potentially saves much more fossil fuel than you think.

As for peak oil, current proven reserves are at 20+ billion. The 198 billion comes about because of mathematical statistic nifty footwork. It is just a potential, and technically recoverable figure.

Shale is not the way forward. It is non-renewable, highly dangerous to human health and the environment, and not very cost effective.

Ok, thanks for the comments about the hydrogen car, but no, it doesn't explode nearly as bad as the hydro-haters say, in fact it seems to be better than the gas, take a look at these things.

~1

~2

Sorry, no Hindenburg incident here.

Anyway, some of your charts are iffy, i think. A major volcanic eruption happend at about 250,000 and another at about 280,000. Those should have some of the biggest jumps in co2, yet in your graph it doesn't seem to show that...

oh, and graphs are worthless to me without support, by the way. You make a very official graph nowadays and have it be completely bogus.

Ok, thanks for the comments about the hydrogen car, but no, it doesn't explode nearly as bad as the hydro-haters say, in fact it seems to be better than the gas, take a look at these things.

Anyway, some of your charts are iffy, i think. A major volcanic eruption happend at about 250,000 and another at about 280,000. Those should have some of the biggest jumps in co2, yet in your graph it doesn't seem to show that...

As mentioned earlier, if we all have the mentality that one person can't do anything, therefore no one should do anything, is a majorly flawed an incredibly short sighted argument. I would want my future generations to actually have a chance at a normal life; a small contribution doesn't hurt, it might be extremely minor, but it sure is better than sitting on your bum and doing absolutely nothing.


Technically recoverable is still a figure if it hasn't been scientifically proven. Odds are, in a constantly expanding universe, there will br alien life, yet we cannot say so until we find proof that there is.

Shale is different from other fossil fuels like oil and coal. It is different from
pumping peak oil, because it involves cracking and crushing vast amounts of shale rock, and then heating it to astronomical temperatures, whilst requiring huge amounts of water to force this out of the ground.

Wyrzen is right of course... big volcanic eruptions, especially the explosive ones, cause the albedo to raise and thus climate to cool, which is caled volcanic winter. Though on the long run, it depends on the gases that are let into the atmosphere, for example if a lot of carbon dioxide and methane come out, it might heaten the climate in the long run, as it might have done during the flood basalts of the siberian traps during the end-permian mass-extinction. So you'd have to examine the specific eruption I guess...

Concerning the carbon dioxide, I think the more grave effect of it on the environment isn't the heating (it might even be simply an indicator and not a cause), but the acidification of the oceans. It not only goes in the air, but also in the water, raises the acidity which in turn augments the dissolving of calciferous materials, thus endangering corals and the like. And we all know that the coral reefs around the world are indeed already in a bad state, whatever the cause may be. Global warming is happening naturally, but lowering the CO2 emissions can help elsewhere too.

still think that graph is iffy, just because the world didn't heat up, that doesnt mean that the co2 shouldn't rise. And the rise in co2 neer 250,000 looks like it is later, and not very close. Without the clear markers it is hard to tell, which is another thing I dont trust about the graph. How would you be able to measure that anyway? And what would be the cause of rises in co2 if not volcanic action? Medevil blacksmiths?

I live in idaho, and the winters have gotten longer, and colder, not warmer exactly, though the summer is unusually hot here, we just barely got out of spring, climately speaking. The seasons have gone crazy. I just think that the world itself is changeing. And there is not much we can do. I am not saying that we shouldn't take care of the Earth, just that we shouldn't expect quick results.

Still waiting for an answer about the rise in co2 if it isnt volchano's.... it seems really interesting!

I hate environmentalists, pacifists, gay rights activists and others so, I think this will be my last comment on this topic.