this tread is about the statistics and guesing. even if you support by ideaoligy one of the side, its about what you think will happen, not what you hope or want to. so "Israel people are braver" "the iranian have the right to destroy israel" - Out, "the IDF as prove himself useful and has the tools for the job" "Iran have a strong anti-air defence system" - In.
so guys, do you think that an attack in Iran by Israel will stop the Developing of an atomic bomb by Iran, will only slow it or will do nothing at all? do you think that the damage in the home front Will be worth it or will cost too many lives and damage? and - does Israel need to wait for USA to interfere or Israel need to do it by herself, "befor its too late"?
firstly, my opinion is that Netanyau is trying to make a 'scene', make the problem be bigger than its actualy is. sure that an nuclear Iran is a treat to Israel, but attacing it will only give them an Excuse to attack us, saying that they are defending against us. even that the Israeli is a very strong army {one of the bests in the world}, the Iranian showd us that they are not to be disregard. they fought for 8 years against Iraq. so tehy wont break up easly, like some in Israel hope {like the eygeption army in 1967 - againt, i dont disregard them too. like i dont blame the french army in WW2}. and, unlike the US army, we wont get the support of the locals who oppose the regiem, as it will be easier to Hammedinijad to unit the Iranian against the 'zionists', while USA is more nautral to them. and, unlike USA, saudi-arabia as said that they wont let our airplanse to fly over her Territory and will shoot them if they will. afcors they will never do this to USA army.
so, i think that we {Israel} need to let USA make the move, maybe help as we can, and not do it ourself. not because of cowardness or that we are affraid, but because of the fact that the USA army is much much stronger and have a better chanses to sucssed, while the Israeli army has less chance to gain support inside Iran and to defeat Iran befor a devisteted rocket barrage on us.
They are already a regional superpower. Who do you think can challenge them in matter of military in that region? unless USA starts a serious rebuilding in Afghanistan, Iran will be unchallenged in that part of the world. And a nuclear wont change anything, since they already is superior in that region.
Saudi Arabia. One of the most advanced, funded and numerous armed forces in the region.
To the North is Russia, to the East, Pakistan. South is SA, West is Israel (THE regional superpower in the ME), and Iraq is emerging too. Iran is powerful but it isn't as hegemonic as the USA portrays it to be. Not to mention all the US bases in the region.
I don't think we should mess with Iran. If Romney takes us to war with Iran, or even tries flexin his muscle to Russia, We are donzo's. For the increase in military spending comes increase in everything for the common people.
Sure, war is not a cheap thing, but when Iran will risk the peace in the world, it will be more expensive to stop them.
and for DSM - i was sarcastic. now eygept prime minister visited Iran, and he decleared that eygept want a Nuclear reactor too. and sure this will help to the peace in the middle east very much.
and for last - as i said over and over - Iran want to destroy Israel. they say it again and again. We {the Israelians} cant risk our people and say "well, we will wait and see what happen". An nukeler Iran is not an option for us, because of all the 'truths' you mentiond. its like saying that yo dont arrest the gang member for having illeagel gun and treating his neighbores, but because you dont like his life style and ideas. and you can agree with me, that a gang member with automatic gun is a much more rusk for police then a wannabe with a kitchen knife, right?
in this exm-ple i mean that i dont have anything against the Iranian peoples, any problme. my problme is with fanatics. like i dont like the "hills youth" {the one who do "rice tag". throw stones at arabs and soliders. the settlers are just people who came there for the low prices} and i dont like the Extreme right parties, i dont like peoples who calaim that they are the only peoples who know what right for me, and that the others are enemies which need to be destroied. Iran is just that. the yagain and again Deny the Holocaust, claim that the "zionist" are racist and evil peoples and that USA and England and Israel are the reason for all of its problmes {yea, they burn england flags too}.
and about syria, yes, i do know better what happen there. our Media has better sources there, i actualy can see the smoke over cities wo are close to the border. and i read alot about it, more than "14 people got killed in allepo". I know that the war is between Assad and the allaui minority, and the rest of Syria. they want democracy, which i hope they will get, and that no one will steal there revolution. I know that the kurdish gaind a country, they calimd indipendence a week ago, in north syria. it came out of nowher to them. I also know that battle even got to Lebaanone, wher the alauis and the Sunis fight each other in the east, and the lebanones army try to maintaine order.
so yes, i do know alittle more than "just two side who kill each other". no one just kill each other. becasue they are arabs they are just minions?
and i can assure you that there are people out there who do realy care about Israel. Like thousands of eygeptions who assulted the Israeli ammbesy in cairo, and luckley didnt find anyone {they escaped befor they breached}. thousands of people around the world, who will protest in frond of a dancing band, just because it came from Israel.
I agree, not everyone hate Israel, and its not all around us. but we are a central peace in the world politics, as a first front between the west and the fanatics groups. without Isral {or after}, they will claim other lands, like there are still russians groups who want poland and japanese groups who want china. it snot "jewish peopels vs arabs", its west vs east.
and nicho, sure, Iran is not very strong now, but yet again, you want them to let them become strong? to wait until it will be too late? i mean, if there will be another economic disastear, and the american voter will want to get seperated from the world, what will happen? even now, i asume that the russians dont realy belive that Iran dont want to get a nuke. Im not sure if they support them, but i belive they have interests. and its not compeltley sure in what side they will stand if things will start to get warmer. also china. {If someone from china will be able to speak and show 'there' side, i eman, what there media say about the situation and stuff, it will be great}.
And, again, im against an attack as well. i think its too soon. but again, its not now or never. I dont want a war with Iran {im recruiting not so long from now XD}. but if things will get nasty, and they will start moving fast on the way to a bomb, well, im not sure what will be the best act then.
i dont realy think they will nuke as too, but i am affraid that "they will get balls". when they will be secure that we wont assult them, they will start going to "adventures".
Adventures like Operation orchid and Opera?
and i hope you do have some ethical problme about killing all the indians? i hope you have. because i am against any mass killing. you know, when in a debate {in Israel} someone say "we need to kill them all", espiecely after a terrorist attack, i cant stop myself from going to this person and argue with him. i cant understand peopels who say "we need to kill all". these 'enemies' are peoples! so you say its ok to kill all the indians,
No, its not OK to kill innoccents, I was just showing the bad blood b/w nations.As these events have agewanted=all">happenned
but its a crime thatwe fight terrorism?
That will be funny watching Israel fighting Itself.
USA and England and Israel are the reason for all of its problmes {yea, they burn england flags too}.
They are right in saying this. If not for U.K and america, there would not have been Israel. Hence, there would have been peace in ME. AS FOR REST OF THE POST by god you sound more crazier than
No, i meant like eygept blockading the straits of the red sea or pakistans trying to conquer kashmir, or Hitler conquering Denemark. these are "adventures", act that suppost to see "what will happen", trying to show mucles. not protective acts of destroieng a Threats of the existing of a nation. a nukeclear wepone by a sworn enemy is a quite big threat, isnt it?
Thankes to the UK adn USA, there will be no Jordan too, so the Jordanian king need to leave too? so its ok to say that its a good thing to kill peoples because 70 years ago there goverment did something? attacking emmbesies, assultint Tourists and crying for blood?
And about The evil Indian soliders. Did you ever heard a story of a solider? i did. my grandfather fought in teh Israeli war of indipendence. he told me what fear you feel fighting in a urban place, wher every seconde a man ca njump out and shoot you. when war goes gurrila, citizens get hurt. when a rebel set his base in a village and kill soliders from it, his neighbores will get hit too. its a fact. i havent saw any wepone who neve miss or have Collateral damage. invite one, and things like this wont happen again. My dad was in lebanone. he was a tank commander. he told me, that when they passed fields, some poor stuiped dudes died because they just stoped for a seconde, to grab an apple. I dont know what exectly happened for him in Lebanon {i find out mor eand more slowly}, but other peoples tell that when you see a shadow run in the bushes, you dont gentely ask him if he want to kill you or not. when this thing can be a harmless kid or a kid with an RPG, you dont wait for the other side to act first. Its war goddamet, not a Chess game. And as i said, its happene in every war who took place in urban landscape. since a man used city buildings as cover, Used villages as bases and reasorce for gurrila acting, innocents people got hurt. Its sad, its wrong, but this is modern warfare. When this new ind of war, of a Country against armed citizenry, the line between a fighter and a citizen is very thin. can you hit only teh adult with the gun, or the boy with who throw a grenade and hide too? In stalingrad, dogs bombs were used, does shooting every dog because of a possible threat is wrong then?
Its a sad truth. I realy get mad reading or hearing about these conflicts. But, as i said over and over again, this is modern warfare. when you use your citizens and reserves and shields, they get hit too. So dont start tell me how wrong other peoples are, when the Pakistans are saint on earts. here, i can do it too. and remmember, the answer you will tell me about this subject, tell to yourself about what you blame Israel, India and everyone else who got to this mudy situation of fighting in urban place. change the names maybe, but it will be the same "well, but we defended ourself"/"we didnt did it!"/"they did it to themselve, its not us"/etc.
It remind me, once i talked with a turkish man. he told me that we are killing the inoccent palestinians. i told him "so what are you do to the kurdish?". so he told me "well its diffrunte. they are terrorists". so what the diffrunce? "no, they want to take lands that we won. any diffrunce? "no no! they bomb buses and kill innconete citizens". and so it goes until he get mad and just walked away {ok, it was on a MMO... [runescape btw]}. The point is, never watch over a situation over one prespective. see what the other side see too. this is what i tell to all these peoples who ask me "so if they {the arabs} are not evil, why they attack us?".
I dont want any country which say that the divine goals are killing other peoples to get wepones which let her do this goal. And Iran, dear friend, is a country that will use the protective shield of teh nuke to do Terrible things.
and back to the Iranian nuke...
What do yo say about the canadian act? they declear that they break diplomatic relations with Iran. {I have to say, i had a tear in my eye when i saw this on the news. these brave people, who have nothing to do with this conflict, take a side in a brave act. go Canada!}
PS - you dont belive in star wars?! its happened very long ago, far far away! you just have to belive! Support this man! How much a light saber cost?
Sorry, punisher, If i got this into private areas, i realt am. i respect your opninions, im sure you know that.
Its just to show you that war have two sides {sometimes even more}. just like you are a patriot, i am a one too. that dosent mean you want to kill all the indoes, like its dont say i want to kill all the arabs. you say pakistan is right, i say Israel is right. Now you see that im not a mindless racist evil deamon? Just like i can give you 100 stories who show bad things pakistan did, you can give me 100 strories about Israel.
So, back to Iran - The hot topic these days on this subject: does the UN need to put some red lines to Iran, or just progress with diplomacy and Embargoes, without red lines and warnings?
The hot topic these days on this subject: does the UN need to put some red lines to Iran, or just progress with diplomacy and Embargoes, without red lines and warnings?
The Iranian leaders won't be impressed by a red line, if anything, it will confort them in their current position. Declaring an ultimatum essentially means we are going to attack Iran. I think the UN will go on with embargoes and observe how the US and Israel behave.
Sorry, punisher, If i got this into private areas, i realt am. i respect your opninions, im sure you know that.
Its just to show you that war have two sides {sometimes even more}. just like you are a patriot, i am a one too. that dosent mean you want to kill all the indoes, like its dont say i want to kill all the arabs. you say pakistan is right, i say Israel is right. Now you see that im not a mindless racist evil deamon? Just like i can give you 100 stories who show bad things pakistan did, you can give me 100 strories about Israel.
No supporting your country blindly is foolish and a sin in Islam. I only support what we have done right.
Just what i said to my friends about it! almost same words HahiHa! lol. red lines will just give them the opportunity to claim that they didnt passed it. like the kid who pus hhis finger in fromt of your face and sya "i didnt touched you".
and punisher - same here. you need to hear my arguing with left wingers in Israel. in some cases, i have to confess, i even mentions things that you and nichodemus Taught and Talked with me about, to show them that Israel is not a pure good and the arabs are a barbarian tribe who want to kill us all. Never support your country blindly, that my ideaoligy. your country cant Afford its peoples blind, it need you with open eyes. So you will know when you were wrong, and try to fix it.
Hopefully this isn't too late of a revival, but the Department of Defense just disclosed that a drone was fired upon over international waters last week (here). This is considered an act of war under international law.
