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Forums → WEPR → Big Brother: Coming Soon To Airspace Near You
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According to a number of articles (listed at end of post), the combat and surveillance drones being used overseas to hunt and kill terrorists will be coming to watch you as soon as 2014-15.
Congress quietly passed a law in March of this year that orders the FAA to allow small surveillance drones to be operated by law-enforcement agencies and also sets up a fast-track for larger drones to be allowed in U.S. airspace by 2014-15. Under the current system, drones can only be operated in U.S. airspace with a special permit.
"So what?" you ask. "They're only going to use little drones to look for criminals. What could possibly go wrong?" Lots of things. First of all, they won't just be looking for bad guys, they'll be doing overall monitoring - including of you. The Supreme Court has conveniently ruled that the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution, which guards against "... unreasonable search or seizure," does not apply to airspace. Furthermore, these aren't just camera drones: they're packing. Even the smallest of systems currently being adopted by police departments (yes, it's already happening. Police across the country are getting these things.) can carry not only up to four camera packages but also automatic shotguns, grenade launchers, and an unspecified long-range TASER system. Ostensibly, these weapons mounts will only fire "non-lethal" ammunition, like rubber bullets, beanbags, and tear gas, but you and I both know that these systems can be converted to kill with only a quick ammo swap.
And that's what's happening now. In two years or less, the Defense Department, which has a big hand in this, will be bringing in the big guns: Predator, Reaper, FireScout, and many other currently less-than-public types which as we all know from the news not only have extreme surveillance capacities but also can carry Hellfire missiles and apparently now a new form of smart bomb.
Now why would they need that kind of firepower constantly circling above us? Even if a terrorist was identified, you can't just drop a missile on them in downtown America; you'd do more damage than the terrorist would have. Also, there's the law of posse comitatus, which basically prohibits the use of military force in internal matters (excluding martial law).
So, what's the idea? Let's try "constantly spying on and eliminating Americans who don't like the government." Even as you're saying to yourself "it can't happen here, not in America," you know that it already does. After all, in America the government or police can't come to your house, bust in the door, and randomly start stealing stuff or murdering people. Oh wait, they already do: 1984 much? The government's goal is to obtain complete and total control over all Americans by whatever means necessary. Why do you think there are cameras all over the place, RFID chips multiplying their presence, recordings being made of every phone call and email, government takeovers of private interests like the auto industry and healthcare, and now spy and attack drones coming to watch you from on high? This new program will give the government the ability to watch 24/7 any person who they deem to be a threat to their power, which according to the FBI's Megiddo Report and subsequent documents can include Jews, Christians, home-schoolers, conservatives, right-wingers, and people who just don't like the government. (Sounds familiar... maybe it was Nazi Germany? Or am I thinking of Soviet Russia?)
Now don't get me wrong. Drones as weapons of war are a fantastic new technology that when properly applied in theaters of conflict can keep American soldiers out of harm's way and help rid the world of despicable scum that uses religion and twisted ideology as an excuse to maim and murder. But when the government takes that war-fighting machine and turns it against American citizens, the very people they're sworn to protect, that quickly turns from life-saving and war-winning to outrageous and intolerable.
This is the next frontier in the government's consolidation of power. Americans need to wake up to the fact that their own leaders are betraying them and shredding their lawful, God-given rights in the name of power and under the guise of "security." Patrick Henry had it right in 1775 when he said "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, Give me Liberty, or give me Death!" And according to former judge Andrew Napolitano, "The first American who shoots down a drone will be an American hero."
So, the next time you're outside and you hear a buzzing sound, look behind you to make sure there isn't a little helicopter drone lurking in the treeline, and if you look up into the sky and see a little glimmer, keep in mind that may be a drone watching you and the government operator flying it could decide to split your scalp with a missile at any time.
[I apologize in advance if these links fail.]
Bibliography:
And more articles here:
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Other peoples' posts:
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5 Sep. 2012 0302 hrs
Nichodemus
Not going to venture into privacy and surveillance; but I'm going to point out that if you study economics, you'll understand why the government needs to intervene in the economy for various reasons.
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5 Sep. 2012 2136 hrs
Kreitmaker
Thankfully, I don't live in America.
But, this surveillance **** seems to go too far. I know just about anyone can become a criminal, but it ain't fair for those that are willing to overcome that temptation.
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6 Sep. 2012 0121 hrs
Skeleton_Pilot
The government will have to be very careful with this technology... one false move and the American people will turn on them. If these drones are used against protesters, that will only make the American people more angry and it could lead to a war between the government and the American people... and that's a war the government should not try and win because if they do they'll run out of people to govern!
But we don't have to worry about that, because no American politician would go out of his way to harm his country if it means he'll lose his place in office!
I know nothing about politics though, so I'll be quiet now. =)
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6 Sep. 2012 0523 hrs
HahiHa
Of course that's going too far, but did you really expect that this day would never come? There are more than one way to ensure security, but obviously the easiest is control. Going that way is easiest for the government and the police, but the least pleasant for the people.
I agree that flying devices could be used in a beneficial way in the cities; for example I already heard ideas about minidrones/quadcopter thingies for the firefighters that could move around on it's own and provide better overview.
But as with everything, misuse is not far, and using drones in public without preexisting reason other than prevention doens't sound great.
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6 Sep. 2012 0843 hrs
EmperorPalpatine
But we don't have to worry about that, because no American politician would go out of his way to harm his country if it means he'll lose his place in office!
*cough* PATRIOT ACT *cough*
This new program will give the government the ability to watch 24/7 any person who they deem to be a threat to their power
They already do that. There's cameras on nearly every street corner in big cities. You really think they're just watching the cars for speeders?
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6 Sep. 2012 0847
Nichodemus
*cough* PATRIOT ACT *cough*
To be fair, most people actually supported it in the wake of 9/11.
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End other replies//
Okay, this should have it right now.
- 17 Replies
*facepalm* another conspiracy theory. People really expect the worst out of the government, don't they? The government's not going to use this as a means of eliminating anyone who tries to stand up to them. We have one of the largest and most advanced militaries in the world, if they really wanted that, we would have a country where every corner was occupied by soldiers. The only organization I see killing people for disagreeing are these crackpot conspiracy groups, religious zealots, and violent "rotesters" who are too stupid to understand what they're actually protesting.
Let me guess, you're one of those guys who believes that there was dynamite strapped to the world trade center towers so that they fell, right? or some other heaping load of hot, smelly, conspiracy crap. Yes, smell the crap, smell it. Does it smell good? Let me know
Yes, smell the crap, smell it. Does it smell good?
You would know, flame-baiter.
Let me guess, you're one of those guys who believes that there was dynamite strapped to the world trade center towers so that they fell, right?
Wrong. The World Trade Center towers were destroyed by hateful scum that hides behind a religious facade and has by its own actions descended to a level lower than the basest human. Such "eople" are a disgrace and shame to the species and must be eliminated. That's what the drones oversees are being used for now.
People really expect the worst out of the government, don't they?
Only because of bitter experience. The government used to be the "good guy" in the eyes of the American people. It stayed in Washington and out of people's lives. When the government asked for or declared something, the majority of people did their best to help because they knew that they would benefit by it. But that's changed in the past few decades. The government has been steadily getting bigger, and our Rights and Freedoms have been eroded and encroached upon at the same or greater rate. Now, the government has cameras watching you constantly and satellites and antennas collecting and scanning your every phone call or email. They constantly pass new laws that seek to further limit what we can do and how we can do it. They raise the taxes so we have no money, then promote a graduated form of slavery by making people dependent on Welfare and other programs. So when it comes out that they're bringing spy drones that carry missiles capable of leveling buildings to American airspace, people naturally wonder if it's going to be them in the crosshairs, and with good reason. After all, history is fond of repeating itself, and it was the self-same disillusionment with an ever-expanding and controlling government that led to the American Revolution against the British. I don't doubt that there are government officials that lay awake nights wondering if their next move is going to put the American public so far over the edge that they rebel. As it was so aptly put by Thomas Jefferson, "The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of Patriots and tyrants," and today's government is rapidly approaching the point where it will openly be called tyrannical.
we would have a country where every corner was occupied by soldiers.
I'm sure there's people in the government who would like that. The reason they can't get away with that is because America has an all-volunteer military comprised entirely of citizen soldiers. If the government gave an order to that effect, they would probably look out the window and see most of those soldiers outside getting ready to storm the place. American soldiers are sworn to obey lawful orders, and to defend the country from "all threats, foreign and domestic." Such an order would not only be unlawful, but would also mark the person who issued the order as a domestic threat due to such a blatant violation of American Rights and the checks and balances present (at least nominally) within the governments' structure.
This may in part be why they now want the drones here so badly: a drone aircraft flying thousands of feet in the air is far less obvious than armed sentries at every corner.
The only organization I see killing people for disagreeing are these crackpot conspiracy groups, religious zealots, and violent "rotesters" who are too stupid to understand what they're actually protesting.
You'd better back this up with some proof. The "crackpot conspiracy groups" you refer to generally put out information and their beliefs regarding it, not go out and kill people. The "violent protesters," while admittedly loudmouthed and in some cases aggressive, are few, and rarely incur fatalities; death is more likely as a result of a riot following a sports event. And the only "religious zealots" I see killing people are the Islamic terrorists that are currently being hunted and killed themselves. Even the so-called "extreme right-wing militant groups" that get hyped out of proportion don't go out on killing sprees; those are the work of deranged psychopaths like James Holmes.
Please do NOT insult welfare. If it were not for the government doling out help, quite a few people would be far worst off. It's only people who are relatively comfortable with the situation that criticize it. It's NOT base slavery, it does NOT reduce people to being slaves, it HELPS those who are in desperate times. People who struggle to feed kids, to get medical care or to provide for their children.
I'm sure there's people in the government who would like that. The reason they can't get away with that is because America has an all-volunteer military comprised entirely of citizen soldiers. If the government gave an order to that effect, they would probably look out the window and see most of those soldiers outside getting ready to storm the place. American soldiers are sworn to obey lawful orders, and to defend the country from "all threats, foreign and domestic."Â
My dad used to be in the Air Force for two decades. Not America, but a similar nation. They obey, they don't subvert, because it's their job, their sole livelihood.
Don't want taxes? Dont get Public schools, law enforcement, defense, protection, roads, highways, your streetlamps, anti trust laws against monopolies, justice system amongst others. Obama already extended tax cuts;
Furthermore US corporations pay the second lowest tax in the industrial world,
And the income tax is laughably low. Quit whining and look at what the rest of the world pays.
The government has been steadily getting bigger, and our Rights and Freedoms have been eroded and encroached upon at the same or greater rate. Now, the government has cameras watching you constantly and satellites and antennas collecting and scanning your every phone call or email.
Please, tell me some of these freedoms that have been taken? Yes, the PATRIOT Act, however that was supported by most people. Name one freedom that was not "taken" without majority of support of the people?
Also, you're a tad paranoid, don't you think? Claiming that the government is reading all of my emails and listening into all of my phone calls? Looks like someone should put their tin foil helmet back on.
Claiming that the government is reading all of my emails and listening into all of my phone calls?
They usually don't without reason, but they do have access to such information.
I would rather feel safe at night knowing the government can monitor suspected terrorists at th expense of knowing which Internet sites I visit rather than regret after something major occurs again.
Please, tell me some of these freedoms that have been taken? Yes, the PATRIOT Act, however that was supported by most people. Name one freedom that was not "taken" without majority of support of the people?
Remember SOPA and PIPA? Had it not been for the overwhelming reaction of teh interwebs, they would have been more than likely passed. And for a while...quite a number of ignorant people thought that those acts were good things
I genuinely hope that when predator drones come in local use, some angry drone operator
fires a hell fire missile on a school or a hospital or a church.
And then I'll ask you about them drones.
You won't have to endure the drones for long, Americans. Oil is soon to run out, and those drones are not needed, thus the military will stop using them.
You won't have to endure the drones for long, Americans. Oil is soon to run out, and those drones are not needed, thus the military will stop using them.
hahahaha what?
1st the drones are not using a oil based energy source.
2nd oil wont run out atleast for the next 40 year (at this consumption rate) is that soon?
3rd drones will only be needed more as people are going to get crazy that there is no fuel anymore.
4th military stops using them because the oil runs out? wtf is that for a illogical connection?
are you on drugs or something? befor i never found your ideas that wrong. but the last 2 days it seems you can't say a logical thing anymore. wtf is going on whit you?
1st the drones are not using a oil based energy source.
...? You can't fly without an oil based energy source. Not with the technology we have. The drones run on airplane fuel, high octane reciprocating aircraft engine fuel, with liters of oil for lubrication. What do you think they run on?
So yah. Not only do they need oil base energy sources, they need high quality oil based energy sources, just as all aircraft do...
2nd oil wont run out atleast for the next 40 year (at this consumption rate) is that soon?
Especially considering he is basically stating "Don't worry about the oppression. If we just be good citizens for 40 years it will all be over"
3rd drones will only be needed more as people are going to get crazy that there is no fuel anymore.
If we stop using fuel...because there is only a little fuel left...then what is the purpose of that little fuel that is left?
4th military stops using them because the oil runs out? wtf is that for a illogical connection?
1. The aircraft runs on oil.
2. There is no alternative to oil for any aircraft.
3. They can not run without oil
4. They will stop being used when we run out of oil.
Pretty logical, actually.
You won't have to endure the drones for long, Americans. Oil is soon to run out, and those drones are not needed, thus the military will stop using them.
But this is still insane and pointless. So I will assume that, as Punisher said, you are high.
I would rather feel safe at night knowing the government can monitor suspected terrorists at th expense of knowing which Internet sites I visit rather than regret after something major occurs again.
I really would prefer it if the government didn't know my porno habits. If they want to know what kind of stuff turns me off, they should just ask politely. I'll tell.
There really is no reason for the government to monitor what we do on the internet unless there is suspicion first, in which case it should be up to the internet providers to act. However, internet providers shouldn't be forced to monitor our every move, it should be consensual. Lastly, nobody should be spied on. If anyone is monitoring your every move on the internet, then it should be known to all parties that are involved, including the person being watched.
As for the drones, they should only be able to observe public areas. any area that would off limits for everyone else should also be off limits for the government. If you're high in the sky and you're looking down onto someone's property, I'm pretty sure that's okay. If you're just barely hovering above someone's property, I'm pretty sure you would need the property owner's consent.
I have no problem with cameras in public areas as long as BOTH government and citizens can have cameras. Areas in which citizens are prohibited from using cameras should also be prohibited from the government except for certain areas such as military bases, or other government property that isn't freely open to the public.
But this is still insane and pointless. So I will assume that, as Punisher said, you are high.
Close, but no Cuban cigar.
I, dear sir, am sick.
I know, impossible, isn't it?
Anyways, I must say, due to the fact I don't live in the U.S. anymore, I find it amusing to be in the third-person's seat.
There really is no reason for the government to monitor what we do on the internet unless there is suspicion first, in which case it should be up to the internet providers to act. However, internet providers shouldn't be forced to monitor our every move, it should be consensual. Lastly, nobody should be spied on. If anyone is monitoring your every move on the internet, then it should be known to all parties that are involved, including the person being watched.
I disagree. This is the kind of attitude that allows terrorism to happen frat and questions later. If we're going to value such petty freedoms, the government can see if I watch extreme porn for all I care, then we're going to give up the ability to monitor terrorism. And that's something formpeople to choose. The loss of "dignity" in knowing what you do, or being blown to bits?
For example The Lackawanna Six. The case of these Yemeni-Americans, who traveled to Afghanistan in the Spring of 2001 to attend an al Qaeda training camp and met with Osama bin Laden, has been described by many observers as an example of government overkill. Most of the men appear to have turned away from violence after 9/11, and they were not actively plotting any attacks when they were arrested. But the group had clear links to senior al Qaeda leaders, and the case is instructive as an example of how a wide range of intelligence sources can be useful to authorities: the group first came to the attention of the FBI through an anonymous tip, and later information came from intercepted emails and from a detainee captured in Afghanistan. Â
You can't fly without an oil based energy source. Not with the technology we have
Incorrect. Although the current drones use oil, they wouldn't need to in the future.
However, internet providers shouldn't be forced to monitor our every move, it should be consensual.
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