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Forums → WEPR → [NECRO] Why is that everytime i encounter a religious Christian i feel offended, why do they feel like th...
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"Why do atheists feel like they need to tell me my beliefs are wrong?"
It depends on the person. Most atheists I know are perfectly content to let people believe whatever they want. What concerns us is actions they take because of those beliefs. When religion is used as a reason to try and institute change or enforce morals is when we feel the need to point out why that shouldn't happen, which inevitably leads to getting into the quasi factual basis of said religion.
The other times are when religion is constantly brought up in a discussion in terms of a generalization or something like that.
This is why I love this part of the community. You guys can take just about any thread and transform it into a place of respectable debate and/or discussion.
It really does makes my job much easier. I almost never have to do any actual "mod" work here at all. I've grown lazy. I blame you guys.
From what I can tell, there are Catholics who are Christians (who actually believe and follow Jesus), and there are those who aren't. There are also Protestants who claim they are Christians, and those who actually believe and follow Jesus.
Catholics are Christian. Why does the contrary seem such a popular opinion?
The past decade saw the rise of not just atheism and agnosticism but also New Atheism, a militant form of atheism that espouses ridding the world of religion and not just rejecting religion. We see too, the rise of the curiously modern and politicized religious fundamentalism. If these trends are present, is it not a logical corollary that people are starting to be eve more rabid in their opinions?
Why do atheists feel like they need to tell me my beliefs are wrong?
i think everyone should be stimulated to ask questions about their own religion.
most people who are religious, are religious because they don't know better. they have been indoctrinated as a child and never quetioned that what they have learned.
for me believing in a religion is like believing santa is real. or the toothfairy is real. and no1 has ever told them they are fake. they never got stimulated to think logically and question their believes.
and maybe by telling that they are wrong, and why/how they are wrong. that they will start to think and question their believes.
and if you then wanna ask. why they need to be told that they are wrong.
is because religion has brought allot of bad things to this world. that did not have to be here because they are wrong.
a religion free world would fix allot of current (and future) problems.
a religion free world would fix allot of current (and future) problems.
But trying to expel religion would only result in more problems. People aren't going to throw their Bibles away just because you told them to. There's several examples of people taking over countries and forcing them to give up their religions, and if they didn't they were killed. A lot of people were killed.
Besides, religion is a natural thing. Cavemen needed to explain the stars some way or another, and considering they weren't aware of science, they chose to explain it with religion.
But trying to expel religion would only result in more problems. People aren't going to throw their Bibles away just because you told them to.
they don't have to. only thing i ask is to think logically about and question their current believes. if they do so and end up still believing then i wont force them to still reject it. that is just impossible. you can't change someones mind if they don't want to.
but those that do find out that their religion is nothing more then a hoax. will not indoctrinate their children whit it. so aslong atheism is growing, eventually all mayor religions will become as big as the voodoo religion is today. and after that hopefully be gone. that people will think back of this time as we are all so stupid the believe in religions. like we think people were dumb to believe that the earth was flat.
i think that will only take about 200 maybe 300 year.
religion is a natural thing.
if so then how come humans are the only animal on this earth that worships something unknown?
Cavemen needed to explain the stars some way or another
they didn't. caveman had to invented fire and arrowheads not religion. anyway todays religion have not as base the explanation of the stars. it's at most a small part of it. not the main event.
and about those religions that had this topic as main event. it's nice of them that they tryed. but we are 7000 year (or more) ahead of them now. they are kinda outdated for todays standard.
Have you ever asked an animal about it? :P
It would still be fairly obvious, since by definition of religion they would need to congregate and take part of specific rituals and follow specific rules.
That probably doesn't happen always, but considering, religious people may set higher moral standards when they're religious compared to when they're not.
Then why is it that non-religious people are usually higher up on the stages of moral development? Lawrence Kohlberg's stages of moral development.
The majority of ways religion enacts its morals is through stage one, obedience or you're punished. Religion 'makes' people do good by threatening them or offering them a reward afterwards. Whereas non-religious people do good because they need to conform to society (stage two) or because they are being good because they realize it's good to be good (stage 3). Now, anyone in either group can be at any stage, but religion is only ever going to take people to level 1. Any further moral development comes from society and personal introspection.
'morally advanced'
what morals do you have by your religion that are more advanced then mine?
what is a advanced moral anyway?
what is a advanced moral anyway?
Arguably, helping someone to make their life better is 'more advanced' than helping them in the hopes that they will help you. Or because you were told to help them.
So, while part of it is motive, there are other parts like consideration, empathy, values and rights.
Law is a good example. Stage one people conform because they're told to, and if they don't they are punished. Stage two they get something out of following the law. Stage three they do it so they fit in and are accepted. Stage four they do it because they believe it's necessary. Stage five because it's an agreement which all parties should uphold. Stage six because law is based on ethics and helps promote and protect people's interests.
only thing i ask is to think logically about and question their current believes.
That's not gonna happen. They'll call you the devil. (No pun intended)
if so then how come humans are the only animal on this earth that worships something unknown?
Because we're the only animals that have the brain capacity to.
they didn't. caveman had to invented fire and arrowheads not religion. anyway todays religion have not as base the explanation of the stars. it's at most a small part of it. not the main event.
and about those religions that had this topic as main event. it's nice of them that they tryed. but we are 7000 year (or more) ahead of them now. they are kinda outdated for todays standard.
I was talking about a long time ago. I'm not saying Christianity began from Christians staring at the skies. The Greeks and Romans believed the stars were gods. This developed into more advanced religions.
That's not gonna happen. They'll call you the devil.
then they are close minded and not worth my time on the topic.
Because we're the only animals that have the brain capacity to.
sure there are other animals who could.
a elephant, ape or dolphin maybe.
and isn't the base for todays religions a book?
a book isn't natural. they are man made.
wood and inkt are, but a book isn't.
The Greeks and Romans believed the stars were gods.
oke.
1. they are not caveman
2. they are outdated for todays standards.
This developed into more advanced religions.
not sure. i think polytheism gives more freedom for people whitin the same relgion to have more different views on something.
where monotheism is more black and white.
(not sure i got it right how ive put it here)
@kasic
thx for the info.
but about you example.
if someone agrees whit stage 5 and 6. but not whit stage 2 and 3. what stage is he in?
if someone agrees whit stage 5 and 6. but not whit stage 2 and 3. what stage is he in?
It depends on the situation/example. I personally view it as parts of a whole. Yes, we all obey the law because if we don't we'll be punished. But, those who are in further stages don't break the law also for additional, more important reasons.
So while you may not agree that obeying something to not be punished is right (and it would depend on the context) it is a part of the law. That's why we may have laws we disagree with, and that's where civil disobedience comes into play. Knowingly breaking the law in a non-harmful way in order to showcase how it is unjust, accepting the punishment because law still has to be upheld, while arguing why it needs to be changed. Just one example.
Nothing is just one part :P
We're getting a little off track though.
That's not gonna happen.
Sure it will. And they do. However, you can have a logical thought process which leads to an incorrect result, or have flawed premises. People think, and they do what makes sense to them. What needs to be looked at is the basic, underlying ideas. You can't argue with someone about God on why he doesn't exist when they can't look at any perspective aside from their own.
The Greeks and Romans believed the stars were gods. This developed into more advanced religions.
We can also see religion mixing into science. Eventually 99% of heavy religion will die out, because we'll have the answers then and all the proof anyone wants for them. Only those who simply will not accept otherwise, the radicals and those uneducated will stick to what we think of religion as now. I'm not saying in the future people won't believe there's some sort of god (unless we somehow manage to prove one way or the other) but I doubt there will be formal, large groups like we see in Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism and others.
if so then how come humans are the only animal on this earth that worships something unknown?
The human brain is differently structured than any other species on the planet. The attributes of the way our brains work can by nature lead us to believing things that aren't true.
It's similar to how this pigeon is conditioned, except we do it to ourselves.
Operant conditioning
That's not gonna happen. They'll call you the devil. (No pun intended)
This can get into a reason some atheists apply the tactic of riling a Christian up. Get that person to want to prove this atheist wrong. Which gets that person to examine their own beliefs. It's not a tactic that should always be used but it can be effective.
However, you can have a logical thought process which leads to an incorrect result, or have flawed premises.
My favorite example.
Which gets that person to examine their own beliefs.
Unfortunately, that rarely works with the heavily indoctrinated, and they tend to be the dangerous ones.
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