ForumsWEPRGhosts/Can atheists believe in them?

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pangtongshu
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pangtongshu
9,815 posts
Jester

So..I'm sure this was once a thread...but I haven't seen it at all recently so I don't want o go looking for the possible previous one

Do you believe in ghosts? Why or why not? etc

"But pang..why is this in WEPR? This should go in The Tavern!"
Don't worry..I gots this covered..

Do you believe ghosts, if they were real, would be valid proof that there is an afterlife as believed by many religions? (which, I'm sure if you go deep enough, would eventually become a "does god exist argument"...but that isn't the question...so...yeah)

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SSTG
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SSTG
13,055 posts
Treasurer

Perhaps the switch was turned partway, just enough to still be off, and turned on through natural forces (gravity, friction, etc). I just did it with my own lightswitch (took a vid, made screenshots, didn't feel like uploading a gif):

Nope, it was one of those you push in and it sticks out on the other side.
If it had been a touch lamp, it would be another story because if you have a faulty circuit, the light turns on and off by itself.
EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
9,444 posts
Jester

Nope, it was one of those you push in and it sticks out on the other side.

I've done it with basically any type of switch. Even those can be borderline'd.
pangtongshu
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pangtongshu
9,815 posts
Jester

Objects moving by themselves can be caused by any number of phenomena, small unnoticed tremors, EMF of the right intensity has been shown to levitate objects that aren't even magnetic just to name a couple.


I had a situation where I watched a lamp move across a rigged surface very swiftly (I was not watching the lamp waiting for something to happen...I just happened to be looking in the direction at the time)...it wasn't a surface where the lamp could just easily slide across..you'd have to put a lil effort into sliding it on that surface...would this situation still fit under these? The lamp didn't lift up...and I doubt a small, unnoticeable tremor could have made it move across that surface
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,470 posts
Farmer

would this situation still fit under these?


Yes, that actually fits very much with what I was saying.
partydevil
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partydevil
5,133 posts
Jester

ghosts?

1: a prank
2: a scam
3: electro magnetic fields
4: infrasound
5: it's in your brain, not reality.
6: a combination of the above.

nha, i don't believe in ghosts.

GhostOfHorror
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GhostOfHorror
890 posts
Nomad

So, I'ma share a story..

I used to live in a different house to the one I live in presently and we moved out because strange things were happening.
When my sister was walking down the stairs, she was pushed even though there wasn't anyone behind her, now, maybe she fell, I don't know. I wasn't there when that happened.
My sister also used to see a little girl when she was walking up the stairs and the little girl would be sitting there, twirling her hair in her finger.
Now, she could've imagined that, yeah but none of us know she was seeing it, she never told us until after we moved.
I had also saw it, and so did my mother and we each described the same girl committing the same action in the same place.
The likeliness of all of us imagining the exact same thing is rather odd.
My mother also used to see stone figures but none of us ever saw that so that is kind of irrelevant.

The day we moved out of the house; the front door locked on us, without a key in it.
And; we were barely able to get out the back door as if there was some sort of force there, it wasn't wind since it wasn't windy on that day.

Now, the probability of every single one of them being a figment of our imagination is quite low, so, yeah.

Kasic
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Kasic
5,557 posts
Jester

Yet, we have all these "ghost hunter" reality shows nowadays where people go and investigate stories like this? How do they always end? "We didn't find a ghost this time, but I'm sure we will next time!"

Without knowing much, let me ask a few questions...

When my sister was walking down the stairs, she was pushed even though there wasn't anyone behind her, now, maybe she fell, I don't know. I wasn't there when that happened.

My sister also used to see a little girl when she was walking up the stairs and the little girl would be sitting there, twirling her hair in her finger.


First off, without anyone seeing anything, this isn't much of a claim. Secondly, how many times has your sister told this story? Things have a way of changing when they're retold. Also, how long ago was this?

I had also saw it, and so did my mother and we each described the same girl committing the same action in the same place.


Again, how long ago was all of this? When did you first start telling stories? Did everyone tell each other separately or at once, and just agree they had seen the same thing?

The likeliness of all of us imagining the exact same thing is rather odd.


The likelihood of everyone retelling events and making them ever more fanciful is rather high though, especially since people have a tendency to just agree with one another. Eye witness testimonies are not reliable by any means and you could easily have just fed off each other's stories and combined them over time.

Again though, how long ago was all of this? If it was just a few weeks ago, then maybe not so much. A few years is plenty of time to retell the story over and over.

Now, the probability of every single one of them being a figment of our imagination is quite low, so, yeah.


It's actually extremely high, considering not a one of the things you've mentioned as happening has ever been recorded or testable.
Kasic
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Kasic
5,557 posts
Jester

Yet, we have all these "ghost hunter" reality shows nowadays where people go and investigate stories like this? How do they always end? "We didn't find a ghost this time, but I'm sure we will next time!"

Without knowing much, let me ask a few questions...

When my sister was walking down the stairs, she was pushed even though there wasn't anyone behind her, now, maybe she fell, I don't know. I wasn't there when that happened.

My sister also used to see a little girl when she was walking up the stairs and the little girl would be sitting there, twirling her hair in her finger.


First off, without anyone seeing anything, this isn't much of a claim. Secondly, how many times has your sister told this story? Things have a way of changing when they're retold. Also, how long ago was this?

I had also saw it, and so did my mother and we each described the same girl committing the same action in the same place.


Again, how long ago was all of this? When did you first start telling stories? Did everyone tell each other separately or at once, and just agree they had seen the same thing?

The likeliness of all of us imagining the exact same thing is rather odd.


The likelihood of everyone retelling events and making them ever more fanciful is rather high though, especially since people have a tendency to just agree with one another. Eye witness testimonies are not reliable by any means and you could easily have just fed off each other's stories and combined them over time.

Again though, how long ago was all of this? If it was just a few weeks ago, then maybe not so much. A few years is plenty of time to retell the story over and over.

Now, the probability of every single one of them being a figment of our imagination is quite low, so, yeah.


It's actually extremely high, considering not a one of the things you've mentioned as happening has ever been recorded or testable.

(Reposting this since it apparently didn't go through...if there's two of these then please ignore one...)
GhostOfHorror
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GhostOfHorror
890 posts
Nomad

how many times has your sister told this story?


Not much, not in recent years anyway.
She's never told anyone outside of our family.

how long ago was this?


It happened about 4 years ago, we discussed it 2 years ago or so.

When did you first start telling stories?


I've never told anyone, the only time I've discussed it was about 2 years ago.

Did everyone tell each other separately or at once, and just agree they had seen the same thing?


My sister had asked my mother about 2ish years ago, "Did you ever see that girl in the old house?" and my mother then said yes, and described her.
I wasn't present for that conversation but when I came in from school they asked me if I had ever seen the girl and I described her.
Basically; we had all seen the same features/looks/actions.

you could easily have just fed off each other's stories and combined them over time.


Yes, that is true but that didn't happen.
partydevil
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partydevil
5,133 posts
Jester

thats a rather vague story ghost.
ever went back to the house and see if the new owners have seen it.

maybe it was just a story of grany or school when you 2 were younger that played whit your mind later and your mom just plays along.

what about your father, he never seen it?

hard to debunk over the i-net whit this amount of information to go on whit.
but i'm not buying it. maybe you just made up the story.

MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,470 posts
Farmer

I had a situation where I watched a lamp move across a rigged surface very swiftly (I was not watching the lamp waiting for something to happen...I just happened to be looking in the direction at the time)...it wasn't a surface where the lamp could just easily slide across..you'd have to put a lil effort into sliding it on that surface...would this situation still fit under these? The lamp didn't lift up...and I doubt a small, unnoticeable tremor could have made it move across that surface


Wanted to say more on this but I was on my way to sleep.

I only listed a couple of possibilities, there are many more I didn't mention. For instance I was just reading about this girl who each day would find her furniture turned over and piled in the middle of the room. After some investigating she found strong wind currents coming from the fireplace was the cause. After putting up a screen on the fireplace the activity stopped.

Now in your case I can't say for sure what the cause is since I simply don't have enough information to work with. It's quite possible there was another explanation that completely eluded you.

My sister also used to see a little girl when she was walking up the stairs and the little girl would be sitting there, twirling her hair in her finger.
Now, she could've imagined that, yeah but none of us know she was seeing it, she never told us until after we moved.
I had also saw it, and so did my mother and we each described the same girl committing the same action in the same place.
The likeliness of all of us imagining the exact same thing is rather odd..


Well a visual hallucination that appears to be the same could be the result of infrasound. It's also possible this is a case of false memory. It's possible each of you saw a different visual distortion but created a false memory of seeing the little girl after being told about it. You wouldn't even need to have seen anything for that to happen as well.
The Power of Suggestion: How to Implant False Memories

The problem with every ghost story, people like to jump to the supernatural explanation before considering and eliminating any possible natural explanation.
Kasic
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Kasic
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Jester

I don't watch that..


I don't either, actually. I've just channel flipped and seen the endings of like 7-8 episodes of various ghost hunting shows. They never find any evidence for anything, express how they thought there was a ghost, and say they had a good time. It's facepalm worthy.

And besides they fake it to get money. I see no reason I would fake it.


Even if they are faking it, they ARE running video cameras and infrared and what not at houses where people have reported ghosts. Nothing gets caught on the cameras.

I am also not a liar.


You don't have to be a liar to be wrong.

At a very old house I have heard the moving of silverware in the middle of the night and the clinking of glasses when I know no one is awake. I have seen things that have been moved when I put them in a specific location. I have seen many other things that scared me. I remember when I was very young. Maybe 5 or 6. I saw a ghost in my room. I ran down to get my mom. when I was back no one was there. I see not reason that my brain or imagination would torment me.


I could explain psychologically pretty thoroughly how you can easily have fabricated that (unintentionally and unwittingly) and believe that you are actually seeing things. I don't really want to though, as it will take some time and no one will really read it anyways...

Basic overview though: We see what we expect to see. If you're listening for noises, you're going to hear various creaks and shiftings that are completely natural, except you attribute it to what you think it is. Same goes for vision. If you're already looking for a person, out of the corner of your eye something extremely vague that has the general shape of a person can easily appear as one. Vision in large part works through our brains automatically filling in gaps, and one of its key features is facial recognition. Then we also have you convincing yourself that you're not crazy, and you being oversensitive to minor or imagined changes BECAUSE you are thinking about something.

Want an example? As you read this, you'll notice a small tingling at the base of your left heel. If you now feel a tingle, does that make me a ghost who is touching you?
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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Farmer

I see no reason I would fake it.


Other than the lols one doesn't always need a reason to fake something.
case in point, Uncle Voodoo's Army Stories: The mad sh*tter incident
Though keep in mind I nor anyone is accusing you of doing this. Just pointing out that people don't really need a reason to hoax something.

I am also not one of those people who hear voices.


You hear a disembodies voice talking and you're not one to hear voices huh?


I remember when I was very young. Maybe 5 or 6. I saw a ghost in my room.


Repeating myself only three pages in.
"It's actually normal for people under the age of 16 to hear and even see things that aren't there. This is going on because the brain is still developing."
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,470 posts
Farmer

Fair enough. But my friend heard his dead dad's ghost. And he's older than 16.


It can continue on after that age. It's just usually to a lesser degree.
pokemonrocks126
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pokemonrocks126
665 posts
Nomad

okay guys this is it WHO ****ING CARES JUST AGREE TO DISAGREE OKAY PLEASE

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