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Forums → WEPR → Is it OK to teach evolution in public schools?

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shortstopkid123
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shortstopkid123
20 posts
Nomad

Many parents argue about schools teaching evolution. Creationalists do not support or believe in the theory of evolution. It goes against their beliefs. They do not believe it should be taught because it apposes many peoples' beliefs. Do you think that it should be taught?

Notes:
Lets try not point out certain religions. I am saying creationalists for a reason.

  • 364 Replies
Kasic
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Kasic
5,552 posts
Jester

If you don't want your beliefs questioned, don't send your child to school.


I thought the standard for that was sticking fingers in one's ears and singing Amazing Grace.

That, or beating the non-believers into submission.

Church is for creationism and its ilk. School is for learning and seeking truth.


This. You don't see atheists (well, not that I'm aware of) petitioning the government to have churches teach evolution. It's an entirely different subject.
theEPICgameKING
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theEPICgameKING
807 posts
Farmer

Alright then. Let's get this Logic'd.
1: The #1 priority of School is to teach students factually verified evidence (Truth.)
2: Truth can be defined in many ways by many people.
3: However for this argument, I will be stating Truth as anything that can be scientifically proven.
4: Therefore, if something can be scientifically proven, it is True. If it relies on non-scientific evidence (Belief), it is not True.

Logic'd the premise for my REAL argument.

1: Darwin brings up a mountain of evidence for evolution.
2: Church relies on the belief that "God" (Or whoever) suddenly created the universe in 6 days and "Magically" populated the Earth with all species.
3: People used to believe that the "Heavens" were in the sky.
4: We disproved that with the Space Program.
5: Therefore, we've already disproved 1 Religious belief.
6: There is more evidence for evolution than for creationism.
7: Therefore, Evolution is (at the very least) more scientific, and thus more True, than Creationism.
8: THEREFORE, Evolution should be taught in schools, or at the very least, Creationism should NEVER be taught in schools, as it violates the school's primary objective: Teach kids the Truth.

Counter-argument from my Catholic mother.
1: If you blaspheme against the almighty Lord giving life from nothing by relating us to beastly apes, you will spend an eternity in hell for your wicked mind! Amen!
(I swear on my reputation that she really wrote the above words.)

...Which to believe: Facts or threats? Scientific evidence, or fire and brimstone?


....So, any things I need to tweak?

Deth666
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Deth666
653 posts
Nomad

1: The #1 priority of School is to teach students factually verified evidence (Truth.)


I would dispute that. I think it should be, but its not. School is there to teach people what the government wants people to believe or what society believes to be true. I'm not necessarily talking about the US but about schools all over the world. I'm sure kids are taught about the Korean war very differently in South and North Korea as well as in the US.
Kasic
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Kasic
5,552 posts
Jester

Please, theEPICgameKING, stop with your "logic" proofs. You aren't doing it right and your premise is (from what I've seen) always unfounded/inaccurate.

The #1 priorty of school is to teach students the knowledge and skills they need to contribute to society. Scholastic institutions do not get to decide what is "truth."

1: Darwin brings up a mountain of evidence for evolution.


Darwin mainly proposed the mechanism by which evolution worked. Many of the ideas about it were already proposed or were later thought up.

3: People used to believe that the "Heavens" were in the sky.
4: We disproved that with the Space Program.


Sort of. As far as I know, most Christians think that Heaven is either in another dimension or that it's somewhere else in the universe.

Creationism should NEVER be taught in schools,


No, Creationism should not be taught as science. I don't mind if it goes into a theology class, where it belongs.

1: If you blaspheme against the almighty Lord giving life from nothing by relating us to beastly apes, you will spend an eternity in hell for your wicked mind! Amen!


Have your mother read this :P

It is not blaspheme to accept evolution. It is not blaspheme to think that parts of the bible are inaccurate or metaphorical. Man wrote the Bible, and man makes mistakes. All evidence we have points towards a 4.54 billion year old earth and evolution. Evolution does not disprove God, and frankly, I don't see the difference between God creating humans immediately or setting things up for them to come about. Also, we are related to "beastly apes" regardless of whether you accept evolution, as our DNA matches theirs anywhere from around 90-96% depending on the species.

Also, I ironically find that believing someone should be tortured for all eternity for getting some fact wrong is vastly more "wicked" than simply believing we all evolved from some thing 3.5 billion years ago.
partydevil
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partydevil
5,129 posts
Jester

As far as I know, most Christians think that Heaven is either in another dimension or that it's somewhere else in the universe.

heaven is often shown as clouds and a blue sky. this place would be above the clouds and under the ozon layer.
people also say things like "jim is up there now" or "god looks down on us all"
or something like "fallen angels" tho corrupt angels are also called fallen angels.
or a song "stairway to heaven" and i'm not that into gospel but i think more are something like that (title)
Blairlarson
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Blairlarson
93 posts
Nomad

I think they should teach evolution in school but only in science classes because it would be just be weird when other teacher teach about their beliefs.

theEPICgameKING
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theEPICgameKING
807 posts
Farmer

Kasic...Owww. I try my best with these proofs, I really do. I'm sorry if you don't understand where i'm coming from, but I try. You're just a wee bit rude. Instead of tearing me down with criticism, offer me ways to improve. I DID write "...is there anything I need to tweak?" or something along those lines.


I would dispute that. I think it should be, but its not. School is there to teach people what the government wants people to believe or what society believes to be true. I'm not necessarily talking about the US but about schools all over the world. I'm sure kids are taught about the Korean war very differently in South and North Korea as well as in the US.


True, sorry that slipped past me. Schools are often influenced by government. Anyone here still believe Thanksgiving was all about us living peacefully with the Native Americans?

Darwin mainly proposed the mechanism by which evolution worked. Many of the ideas about it were already proposed or were later thought up.


He was still a very important figure. I got it half-right, okay?

Also, I ironically find that believing someone should be tortured for all eternity for getting some fact wrong is vastly more "wicked" than simply believing we all evolved from some thing 3.5 billion years ago.

Well...yes. I agree with you there.

No, Creationism should not be taught as science. I don't mind if it goes into a theology class, where it belongs.

Right again. Thanks for clarifying.

Have your mother read this :P

She's the one that personally typed it. Then smacked me for defending the "Atheist side" of the argument. (She thinks all people who believe in evolution are athiests.)

It is not blaspheme to accept evolution. It is not blaspheme to think that parts of the bible are inaccurate or metaphorical.
Tell that to a fanatic.

Man wrote the Bible, and man makes mistakes


Yes, Man did write the Bible, and man, as we all know, makes MANY mistakes.

Evolution does not disprove God, and frankly, I don't see the difference between God creating humans immediately or setting things up for them to come about.


Oooh, clever. Sadly, I'm inclined to believe Evolution DOES disprove God. God's portrayed as human, but he floats in the sky and had a child without impregnating a woman? How the HECK does Virgin Birth even work, it's an oxymoron! It's physically impossible to concieve without both ingredients. (Maybe Jesus was a clone???)
God is...what? An alien? A hallucination? What is God? What is his physical form? Does he have a physical form? how does he speak to us? Is God all in our heads? In our heads, yes. Existing in reality-I just can't see it. Try and prove me otherwise.

I accept the following statements:
Evolution is Science and should thus be taught in Science classes.
Creationism is NOT science and should only be taught in Theology, if at all.
pangtongshu
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pangtongshu
9,808 posts
Jester

Man wrote the Bible, and man makes mistakes


Their defense;

But the men that wrote the Bible did so with the influence of God. He spoke to them and gave them the knowledge they needed to write His words

Then...you try and counter them and they do their awesome "*covers ears* nanananana I can't hear you nanananana" technique
Kasic
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Kasic
5,552 posts
Jester

(She thinks all people who believe in evolution are athiests.)


While it's true that most atheists do accept evolution, there's a great deal of religious people who do as well. 99.99% (not exaggerating) of the scientific community accepts evolution as proven fact, including those who are religious.

Sadly, I'm inclined to believe Evolution DOES disprove God.


At the very most, it disproves one literal interpretation of an event which was attributed to God.

God's portrayed as human


Actually, it says in the Bible that we were "made in God's image." You could interpret that to mean that we were made to look like him...or that we were made to look how he wanted us to.

but he floats in the sky and had a child without impregnating a woman?


He supposedly sent an angel (too tired to recall which one...I'm thinking Gabriel but I'm not sure) to do the deed. Still doesn't really work out unless you get...uh, creative...but whatever.

How the HECK does Virgin Birth even work, it's an oxymoron! It's physically impossible to concieve without both ingredients.


That's why it's called a miracle.

Kasic...Owww. I try my best with these proofs, I really do.


Well, I didn't mean to be that harsh. It's just pretentious though to try and formulate your posts in some half-baked logic, call it proven, and then throw out your "logic-ed" word or whatever.

offer me ways to improve.


Support your premise more. Don't include so many steps either. You have lots of unrelated things or simple opinions included in your reasoning.

Then smacked me for defending the "Atheist side" of the argument.


Ah, again with the irony. The one accusing others of villainy and wickedness instantly resorted to physical violence.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

Sort of. As far as I know, most Christians think that Heaven is either in another dimension or that it's somewhere else in the universe.


Today that is true though there was a time when it was believed that heaven was just past the clouds. As our knowledge progressed the distance of heaven became greater. It's sort of a God of the gap / moving the goalpost tactic.

(She thinks all people who believe in evolution are athiests.)


Something for your mom. He clearly states he believes in God, thus not an atheist and still accepts evolution.
How To Shut Up Pesky Creationists

Oooh, clever. Sadly, I'm inclined to believe Evolution DOES disprove God.


It does disprove a literal interpretation of the Bible and this God as stated in that way. It however doesn't disprove the existence of a god in other ways, nor is it trying to.

How the HECK does Virgin Birth even work, it's an oxymoron! It's physically impossible to concieve without both ingredients. (Maybe Jesus was a clone???)


There is a method of self conception in nature called parthenogenesis. However the process still couldn't have resulted in Jesus as it would only be capable of producing a female offspring. More so it's not naturally found in mammals.

1: If you blaspheme against the almighty Lord giving life from nothing by relating us to beastly apes, you will spend an eternity in hell for your wicked mind! Amen!


If there is a god we only do that god an injustice by not accepting the evidence that's right before our eyes.
Getoffmydangle
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Getoffmydangle
152 posts
Blacksmith

Also, I ironically find that believing someone should be tortured for all eternity for getting some fact wrong is vastly more "wicked" than simply believing we all evolved from some thing 3.5 billion years ago.


Amen sister
09philj
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09philj
2,825 posts
Jester

Schools should teach both and show both points of view fairly. then the children can work out for themselves which seems more logical.

Masterforger
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Masterforger
1,824 posts
Peasant

Schools should teach both and show both points of view fairly. then the children can work out for themselves which seems more logical.

As I said before, creationism and its ilk is for church, school is for learning and seeking the truth. Creationism belongs in theology class and nothing else. If you do not want your beliefs questioned, don't send your child to school.
Kasic
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Kasic
5,552 posts
Jester

Amen sister


Sister?

Schools should teach both and show both points of view fairly. then the children can work out for themselves which seems more logical.


It's not a question of teaching "both point of views" as those are not even the two "choices." Creationism is not science. There are many more religious explanations of how the world was made than one version of Creationism.
EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
9,439 posts
Jester

Sister?

Without the ranks (lord/lady, duke/dutchess, prince/princess, king/queen) or anything on the Abouts (X is a male/female), it's hard to tell gender, other than by guessing based on name.
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