[nec]Christianity vs Atheism - Armor Games Community

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MageGrayWolf

9,462 posts

Farmer

Posted May 22, '10 9:52am UTC

Though we all know saying 'we have faith' has no grounds in an argument such as ours...

Then why are you always using it?

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n00bie1296

59 posts

Nomad

Posted June 25, '10 10:00pm UTC

chz08 is Right their is not prof for that im am atheist

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Avorne

3,085 posts

Nomad

Posted June 25, '10 10:27pm UTC

Chz, you are wrong there. Religions do exist - we see churches, mosques, holy books and symbolism everywhere that comes from religions. The deities that those religions worship however? They don't exist.

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MRWalker82

4,005 posts

Shepherd

Posted June 26, '10 12:45am UTC

The fundamental issue at hand is that there is NO religion that can offer up empirical evidence as proof. All we have are stories, personal perceptions, and personal feelings. These are NOT evidence. These are OPINIONS. As we all know, opinions do not make anything a fact, no matter how many people share the same opinion.

Atheism is not saying there is no such thing as a god. It is a position that there is no evidence for god, and we choose to not believe without evidence. I can't speak for others, but I know that if I saw real evidence I would convert immediately, and it's a safe wager that most other atheists would as well.

My fundamental issue with religion is that it demands acceptance without evidence, and that is spilling over into other aspects of society. The religious zealots and extremists of many faiths are demanding that the rest of the world not only accept their religion as true and right without any evidence, they are trying to pass laws to force their views of other things, which we CAN prove and test, on us.

When religion crosses the boundaries of personal belief and become the basis for law it is inevitable that civil liberties are going to be infringed upon, for no other reason than the members of that faith believe they are right and we must all follow them, regardless of evidence to the contrary.

Not only is this illegal in the United States, but as we have seen time and again throughout history, it impedes our advancement as a species and as a civilization.

The fundamental issue at hand is that there is NO religion that can offer up empirical evidence as proof. All we have are stories, personal perceptions, and personal feelings. These are NOT evidence. These are OPINIONS. As we all know, opinions do not make anything a fact, no matter how many people share the same opinion. \r\n\r\nAtheism is not saying there is no such thing as a god. It is a position that there is no evidence for god, and we choose to not believe without evidence. I can't speak for others, but I know that if I saw real evidence I would convert immediately, and it's a safe wager that most other atheists would as well. \r\n\r\nMy fundamental issue with religion is that it demands acceptance without evidence, and that is spilling over into other aspects of society. The religious zealots and extremists of many faiths are demanding that the rest of the world not only accept their religion as true and right without any evidence, they are trying to pass laws to force their views of other things, which we CAN prove and test, on us. \r\n\r\nWhen religion crosses the boundaries of personal belief and become the basis for law it is inevitable that civil liberties are going to be infringed upon, for no other reason than the members of that faith believe they are right and we must all follow them, regardless of evidence to the contrary.\r\n\r\nNot only is this illegal in the United States, but as we have seen time and again throughout history, it impedes our advancement as a species and as a civilization.

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Nurvana

2,520 posts

Farmer

Posted June 26, '10 12:52am UTC

My fundamental issue with religion is that it demands acceptance without evidence, and that is spilling over into other aspects of society. The religious zealots and extremists of many faiths are demanding that the rest of the world not only accept their religion as true and right without any evidence, they are trying to pass laws to force their views of other things, which we CAN prove and test, on us.

Um.. Links or something?

Not only is this illegal in the United States, but as we have seen time and again throughout history, it impedes our advancement as a species and as a civilization.

Yes because the Vatican City is in turmoil :P

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Moegreche

3,826 posts

Duke

Posted June 26, '10 1:12am UTC

The fundamental issue at hand is that there is NO religion that can offer up empirical evidence as proof.

I think most theists would disagree wholeheartedly. They would say that the evidence of God's love and presence is literally all around us. It's simply that you're denying these empirical phenomena as empirical evidence for a god.
Many scholars have advocated something called a sensus divinitus, or a divine sense that can detect God's presence. So, imagine I'm blind and you're not and there's an island off in the distance. You can tell me all day that there's evidence for the island's existence right there. Yet, because I lack the sense necessary to detect the island, I just don't believe you.
The point of the analogy was to show that not seeing evidence is quite different from there not being any evidence whatsoever.

These are OPINIONS. As we all know, opinions do not make anything a fact, no matter how many people share the same opinion.

There's plenty of philosophy to refute this claim, even insofar as what constitutes a "fact". But this point aside, there do exist some pretty convincing proofs out there for some kind of creator. Maybe not the Judeo-Christian God, but some sort of entity with a purpose. While I reject these theories as well, at what point does my view become opinion versus their view? I don't have any fancy proofs to counter theirs, so who's to say what really constitutes an opinion?

Atheism is not saying there is no such thing as a god. It is a position that there is no evidence for god, and we choose to not believe without evidence.

This is a misconstrued version of atheism that verges on agnosticism. Atheists must, to be an atheist, assent to the proposition that no god/deities exist. It is not a lack of belief in a god, which would qualify as agnosticism. It is an assent to the proposition that is essentially the negation of the theist's position.
There is also the sticky matter of whether or not we can actually choose what we believe. Your statement here puts the atheist in a tough position to get out of because you're committed to the view that we can pick and choose what we believe. And that just seems false.

I can't speak for others, but I know that if I saw real evidence I would convert immediately, and it's a safe wager that most other atheists would as well.

Even if God Himself came down and spoke to me, I would sooner believe that I've completely lost it rather than some magical man from the sky is talking to me. My beliefs on this matter deal with probabilities, and I find the notion of a God close to being logically inconsistent.

My fundamental issue with religion is that it demands acceptance without evidence, and that is spilling over into other aspects of society.

Fruit from the poisoned tree. The premises, as I have shown, are contentious at best. This makes for nothing more than a strawman of the theist's position.
If part of your faith is to evangelize and spread the news of God's love, then how we can really fault people for trying to do this? Sure, it's irritating as hell. But it's not the worst thing in the worlds. Besides, it's typically good fun messing with those guys.

[quote]The fundamental issue at hand is that there is NO religion that can offer up empirical evidence as proof. [/quote] \r\n\r\nI think most theists would disagree wholeheartedly. They would say that the evidence of God's love and presence is literally all around us. It's simply that you're denying these empirical phenomena as empirical evidence for a god.\r\nMany scholars have advocated something called a sensus divinitus, or a divine sense that can detect God's presence. So, imagine I'm blind and you're not and there's an island off in the distance. You can tell me all day that there's evidence for the island's existence right there. Yet, because I lack the sense necessary to detect the island, I just don't believe you.\r\nThe point of the analogy was to show that not seeing evidence is quite different from there not being any evidence whatsoever.\r\n\r\n[quote]These are OPINIONS. As we all know, opinions do not make anything a fact, no matter how many people share the same opinion. [/quote] \r\n\r\nThere's plenty of philosophy to refute this claim, even insofar as what constitutes a "fact". But this point aside, there do exist some pretty convincing proofs out there for some kind of creator. Maybe not the Judeo-Christian God, but some sort of entity with a purpose. While I reject these theories as well, at what point does my view become opinion versus their view? I don't have any fancy proofs to counter theirs, so who's to say what really constitutes an opinion?\r\n\r\n[quote]Atheism is not saying there is no such thing as a god. It is a position that there is no evidence for god, and we choose to not believe without evidence.[/quote] \r\n\r\nThis is a misconstrued version of atheism that verges on agnosticism. Atheists must, to be an atheist, assent to the proposition that no god/deities exist. It is not a lack of belief in a god, which would qualify as agnosticism. It is an assent to the proposition that is essentially the negation of the theist's position.\r\nThere is also the sticky matter of whether or not we can actually choose what we believe. Your statement here puts the atheist in a tough position to get out of because you're committed to the view that we can pick and choose what we believe. And that just seems false.\r\n\r\n[quote]I can't speak for others, but I know that if I saw real evidence I would convert immediately, and it's a safe wager that most other atheists would as well. [/quote] \r\n\r\nEven if God Himself came down and spoke to me, I would sooner believe that I've completely lost it rather than some magical man from the sky is talking to me. My beliefs on this matter deal with probabilities, and I find the notion of a God close to being logically inconsistent.\r\n\r\n[quote]My fundamental issue with religion is that it demands acceptance without evidence, and that is spilling over into other aspects of society.[/quote] \r\n\r\nFruit from the poisoned tree. The premises, as I have shown, are contentious at best. This makes for nothing more than a strawman of the theist's position.\r\nIf part of your faith is to evangelize and spread the news of God's love, then how we can really fault people for trying to do this? Sure, it's irritating as hell. But it's not the worst thing in the worlds. Besides, it's typically good fun messing with those guys.

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Nurvana

2,520 posts

Farmer

Posted June 26, '10 1:18am UTC

This is a misconstrued version of atheism that verges on agnosticism.

More like a misconstructed version of atheism to make them look more appealing.

If part of your faith is to evangelize and spread the news of God's love, then how we can really fault people for trying to do this? Sure, it's irritating as hell. But it's not the worst thing in the worlds. Besides, it's typically good fun messing with those guys.

Hey God exists. And he loves you and wants your salvation. And I want to help you to see him.

*Random attack on theism.*

Yeah okay see you around.

Yep that's some jolly good fun.

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MRWalker82

4,005 posts

Shepherd

Posted June 26, '10 1:35am UTC

Um.. Links or something?

I'm sorry, thought it was common knowledge. Let's just look at a couple here.
Abortion
Homosexuality
Capital punishment
War
The environment
Evolution and Creationism
Prayer in schools
Christmas trees
Display of religious symbols in public places
Medical care â" euthanasia, blood transfusions and taking the case out of the hands of the Deity in general.

In every case here there are citizens and politicians who have made or are attempting to make policy based solely on their religious beliefs.

Yes because the Vatican City is in turmoil

This isn't even applicable in the situation. Vatican city is the sole property and under the sole government of the Roman Catholic church. There is no one that lives there that DOESN'T support everything they say.

If you want to take a look at every time religious dogma has impeded civil liberties or advancements as a society then lets consider the crusades, the inquisition, the Pope's recent visit to Africa where he stated that condoms are ineffective at preventing HIV and encouraged people to throw them out, thus perpetuating the spread of the disease.

Let's not forget the wars between the Jews and the Palestinians for the past few thousand years, causing countless deaths.

Or the fact that the ancient Greeks proved the world was round and that the earth revolved around the sun as early as 360 BC, but the idea was rejected as heresy in the christian nations until almost 1800 years later, despite all evidence.

I can go on and on about how the influencing of policy and law by religious dogma having a negative effect on society and impeding on civil liberties. I would like to see some evidence to the contrary.

[quote]Um.. Links or something? [/quote]\r\n\r\nI'm sorry, thought it was common knowledge. Let's just look at a couple here. \r\nAbortion\r\nHomosexuality\r\nCapital punishment\r\nWar\r\nThe environment\r\nEvolution and Creationism\r\nPrayer in schools\r\nChristmas trees\r\nDisplay of religious symbols in public places\r\nMedical care â�" euthanasia, blood transfusions and taking the case out of the hands of the Deity in general.\r\n\r\nIn every case here there are citizens and politicians who have made or are attempting to make policy based solely on their religious beliefs. \r\n\r\n[quote]Yes because the Vatican City is in turmoil [/quote]\r\n\r\nThis isn't even applicable in the situation. Vatican city is the sole property and under the sole government of the Roman Catholic church. There is no one that lives there that DOESN'T support everything they say.\r\n\r\nIf you want to take a look at every time religious dogma has impeded civil liberties or advancements as a society then lets consider the crusades, the inquisition, the Pope's recent visit to Africa where he stated that condoms are ineffective at preventing HIV and encouraged people to throw them out, thus perpetuating the spread of the disease.\r\n\r\nLet's not forget the wars between the Jews and the Palestinians for the past few thousand years, causing countless deaths.\r\n\r\nOr the fact that the ancient Greeks proved the world was round and that the earth revolved around the sun as early as 360 BC, but the idea was rejected as heresy in the christian nations until almost 1800 years later, despite all evidence.\r\n\r\nI can go on and on about how the influencing of policy and law by religious dogma having a negative effect on society and impeding on civil liberties. I would like to see some evidence to the contrary.

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Nurvana

2,520 posts

Farmer

Posted June 26, '10 1:48am UTC

Abortion
Homosexuality
Capital punishment
War
The environment
Evolution and Creationism
Prayer in schools
Christmas trees
Display of religious symbols in public places
Medical care Ã¢ï¿½" euthanasia, blood transfusions and taking the case out of the hands of the Deity in general.

Killing babies? Yes it's evil to try and make it illegal! Those darn theists!
Guys or girls marrying each other. In a few million years it'll catch on! Then we'll all have to jack off to make the kids!
Capitol punishment? Legal by religious standards. *high five*
War? Go ahead. We don't care. *high five*
Environment: What's that got to do with theism?
Evolution and creation: It is perfectly fine to believe God made the world through evolution. *high five*
Prayer in school: Links. Unless you're lying.
Christmas trees: WTF?
Religious symbols: So? Put a cross in town square :0 those darn theists!
Medical issues: Um religious hospitals HAVE to perform abortions. Oh yes those darn theists are on the offense all right!

This isn't even applicable in the situation. Vatican city is the sole property and under the sole government of the Roman Catholic church. There is no one that lives there that DOESN'T support everything they say.

If you want to take a look at every time religious dogma has impeded civil liberties or advancements as a society then lets consider the crusades, the inquisition, the Pope's recent visit to Africa where he stated that condoms are ineffective at preventing HIV and encouraged people to throw them out, thus perpetuating the spread of the disease.

Let's not forget the wars between the Jews and the Palestinians for the past few thousand years, causing countless deaths.

Or the fact that the ancient Greeks proved the world was round and that the earth revolved around the sun as early as 360 BC, but the idea was rejected as heresy in the christian nations until almost 1800 years later, despite all evidence.

I can go on and on about how the influencing of policy and law by religious dogma having a negative effect on society and impeding on civil liberties. I would like to see some evidence to the contrary.

Okay condoms aren't helping. At all. So yeah. Jews and Palestinians: /agreed. Evidence? Well sure: Communism: atheistic: Communism: Ruins 20th century.

[quote]Abortion\r\nHomosexuality\r\nCapital punishment\r\nWar\r\nThe environment\r\nEvolution and Creationism\r\nPrayer in schools\r\nChristmas trees\r\nDisplay of religious symbols in public places\r\nMedical care Ã¢ï¿½" euthanasia, blood transfusions and taking the case out of the hands of the Deity in general.[/quote]\r\n\r\nKilling babies? Yes it's evil to try and make it illegal! Those darn theists!\r\nGuys or girls marrying each other. In a few million years it'll catch on! Then we'll all have to jack off to make the kids!\r\nCapitol punishment? Legal by religious standards. *high five*\r\nWar? Go ahead. We don't care. *high five*\r\nEnvironment: What's that got to do with theism?\r\nEvolution and creation: It is perfectly fine to believe God made the world through evolution. *high five*\r\nPrayer in school: Links. Unless you're lying.\r\nChristmas trees: WTF?\r\nReligious symbols: So? Put a cross in town square :0 those darn theists!\r\nMedical issues: Um religious hospitals HAVE to perform abortions. Oh yes those darn theists are on the offense all right!\r\n[quote]This isn't even applicable in the situation. Vatican city is the sole property and under the sole government of the Roman Catholic church. There is no one that lives there that DOESN'T support everything they say.\r\n\r\nIf you want to take a look at every time religious dogma has impeded civil liberties or advancements as a society then lets consider the crusades, the inquisition, the Pope's recent visit to Africa where he stated that condoms are ineffective at preventing HIV and encouraged people to throw them out, thus perpetuating the spread of the disease.\r\n\r\nLet's not forget the wars between the Jews and the Palestinians for the past few thousand years, causing countless deaths.\r\n\r\nOr the fact that the ancient Greeks proved the world was round and that the earth revolved around the sun as early as 360 BC, but the idea was rejected as heresy in the christian nations until almost 1800 years later, despite all evidence.\r\n\r\nI can go on and on about how the influencing of policy and law by religious dogma having a negative effect on society and impeding on civil liberties. I would like to see some evidence to the contrary.[/quote]\r\n\r\nOkay condoms aren't helping. At all. So yeah. Jews and Palestinians: /agreed. Evidence? Well sure: Communism: atheistic: Communism: Ruins 20th century.

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MRWalker82

4,005 posts

Shepherd

Posted June 26, '10 2:27am UTC

Killing babies? Yes it's evil to try and make it illegal! Those darn theists!

Perhaps you should look up my evidence for abortion in the abortion argument thread. Also, simply because YOU think something is immoral or wrong DOES NOT give you the right to force others to act according to your principles. Hence civil liberties are being infringed upon.

Guys or girls marrying each other. In a few million years it'll catch on! Then we'll all have to jack off to make the kids!

Evidence? Please? Since homosexuality is a naturally occurring preference which occurs in ~10% of the population.

Capitol punishment? Legal by religious standards.

Actually it's not. Correct me if I'm wrong but the bible says "thou shalt not kill" doesn't it? Seems pretty clear cut. I don't see god offering extenuating circumstances in which you can.

War? Go ahead. We don't care.

I'm referring to wars caused by or claimed to be supported by religion. Seems kind of strange that so much death has occurred in the name of a religion that says "Thou shalt not kill".

Evolution and creation: It is perfectly fine to believe God made the world through evolution.

I'm with you on your comment and most christians that I know are as well, however Creationism states that evolution is false, and it's supporters have been trying to get it taught in our schools for years under the guise of a 'scientific theory'

Prayer in school: Links. Unless you're lying.

Facts on the topic.

What religion says about it
Oh and in response to the 'moral decline of America by removing prayer from school' as put forth in the above link, here are some proving that the guy is full of BS. Here's some scary statistics:

Only 23% of women getting abortions are NOT religious:
Link

Approximately 1/10 of 1% of inmates are NOT religious:Link

Christmas trees: WTF?

Yes it seems silly. But the issue has been raised as to whether or not christmas trees are religious symbols, or whether they are sacrilegious. Seems like our lawmakers could spend their time being more productive if we had a CLEAR separation of Church and State.

Religious symbols: So? Put a cross in town square :0 those darn theists!

Actually this is clearly unconstitutional according to the first amendment, however similar things have been done despite that they are illegal under US law. Darn those atheists, pagans, hindus, islams, and every other religion(or lack thereof) for asking the christians to follow the same laws they have to.

Medical issues: Um religious hospitals HAVE to perform abortions. Oh yes those darn theists are on the offense all right!

Actually they DO NOT have to. The FOCA act has not yet been passed into law. And these religious hospitals have threatened to close their doors and lay off all of their employees if the bill is passed.

By the way, isn't a hospital a place where someone is offered medical care? So why should the owners of the hospital be allowed to determine who is cared for and what procedures they can and cannot receive? Wanna know something? They can't. It's illegal. It's called discrimination, and that is why the hospitals are threatening to close if FOCA becomes law. Again. More infringement on civil liberties on no base other than religious opinion.

[quote]Killing babies? Yes it's evil to try and make it illegal! Those darn theists![/quote]\r\n\r\nPerhaps you should look up my evidence for abortion in the abortion argument thread. Also, simply because YOU think something is immoral or wrong DOES NOT give you the right to force others to act according to your principles. Hence civil liberties are being infringed upon.\r\n\r\n[quote]Guys or girls marrying each other. In a few million years it'll catch on! Then we'll all have to jack off to make the kids![/quote]\r\n\r\nEvidence? Please? Since homosexuality is a naturally occurring preference which occurs in ~10% of the population. \r\n[quote]\r\nCapitol punishment? Legal by religious standards.[/quote]\r\n\r\n\r\nActually it's not. Correct me if I'm wrong but the bible says "thou shalt not kill" doesn't it? Seems pretty clear cut. I don't see god offering extenuating circumstances in which you can.\r\n\r\n[quote]War? Go ahead. We don't care.[/quote]\r\n\r\nI'm referring to wars caused by or claimed to be supported by religion. Seems kind of strange that so much death has occurred in the name of a religion that says "Thou shalt not kill".\r\n[quote]\r\nEvolution and creation: It is perfectly fine to believe God made the world through evolution. [/quote]\r\n\r\nI'm with you on your comment and most christians that I know are as well, however Creationism states that evolution is false, and it's supporters have been trying to get it taught in our schools for years under the guise of a 'scientific theory' \r\n\r\n[quote]Prayer in school: Links. Unless you're lying.[/quote]\r\n\r\n[url=http://www.allaboutpopularissues.org/prayer-in-school.htm]Facts on the topic.[/url]\r\n\r\n[url=http://www.forerunner.com/forerunner/X0098_Ban_on_school_prayer.html]What religion says about it[/url]\r\nOh and in response to the 'moral decline of America by removing prayer from school' as put forth in the above link, here are some proving that the guy is full of BS. Here's some scary statistics:\r\n\r\nOnly 23% of women getting abortions are NOT religious:[url=http://www.abortionno.org/Resources/fastfacts.html]\r\nLink[/url]\r\n\r\nApproximately 1/10 of 1% of inmates are NOT religious:[url=http://www.skepticfiles.org/american/prison.htm]Link[/url]\r\n\r\n[quote]Christmas trees: WTF?[/quote]\r\n\r\nYes it seems silly. But the issue has been raised as to whether or not christmas trees are religious symbols, or whether they are sacrilegious. Seems like our lawmakers could spend their time being more productive if we had a CLEAR separation of Church and State.\r\n\r\n[quote]Religious symbols: So? Put a cross in town square :0 those darn theists![/quote]\r\n\r\nActually this is clearly unconstitutional according to the first amendment, however similar things have been done despite that they are illegal under US law. Darn those atheists, pagans, hindus, islams, and every other religion(or lack thereof) for asking the christians to follow the same laws they have to. \r\n\r\n[quote]Medical issues: Um religious hospitals HAVE to perform abortions. Oh yes those darn theists are on the offense all right! [/quote]\r\n\r\nActually they DO NOT have to. The FOCA act has not yet been passed into law. And these religious hospitals have threatened to close their doors and lay off all of their employees if the bill is passed. \r\n\r\nBy the way, isn't a hospital a place where someone is offered medical care? So why should the owners of the hospital be allowed to determine who is cared for and what procedures they can and cannot receive? Wanna know something? They can't. It's illegal. It's called discrimination, and that is why the hospitals are threatening to close if FOCA becomes law. Again. More infringement on civil liberties on no base other than religious opinion.

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MRWalker82

4,005 posts

Shepherd

Posted June 26, '10 2:31am UTC

Okay condoms aren't helping. At all. So yeah.

Actually condoms would help, if they were used. The problem is you have the pope saying they don't work and not to use them. On top of that you have a common misconception in Africa that simply by putting a condom on you can get AIDS. Way to help dispel that rumor and hopefully spare some people the suffering of HIV/AIDS there mr. pope.

Communism: atheistic: Communism: Ruins 20th century.

This comparison is ridiculous. You are implying no only that all communists are atheist (which isn't true by the way) but that communism "ruined the 20th century."

Your argument has no validity, makes no sense, and is totally nonsensical and irrelevant.

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Nurvana

2,520 posts

Farmer

Posted June 26, '10 2:54am UTC

Perhaps you should look up my evidence for abortion in the abortion argument thread. Also, simply because YOU think something is immoral or wrong DOES NOT give you the right to force others to act according to your principles. Hence civil liberties are being infringed upon.

Yes shame on me for finding killing babies immoral. Bad Nurv.

Evidence? Please? Since homosexuality is a naturally occurring preference which occurs in ~10% of the population.

Evidence that homosexuality is between two guys or girls? Uhh... Evidence that it'll catch on in a few million years? You're right that probably won't happen.

Actually it's not. Correct me if I'm wrong but the bible says "thou shalt not kill" doesn't it? Seems pretty clear cut. I don't see god offering extenuating circumstances in which you can.

Actually it is. Your stupidity and arrogance is so funny. [url=http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/capital_punishment.htm]
*high five*

I'm referring to wars caused by or claimed to be supported by religion. Seems kind of strange that so much death has occurred in the name of a religion that says "Thou shalt not kill".

Corruption in the church, and we suddenly say it should be outlawed or something. So does that mean politics should be outlawed?

Oh and in response to the 'moral decline of America by removing prayer from school' as put forth in the above link, here are some proving that the guy is full of BS. Here's some scary statistics:

Those were just guidelines for when you can pray in school dude.

Only 23% of women getting abortions are NOT religious:rnLink

How many do you think are manipulated and lied to? None of course NOT.

Actually this is clearly unconstitutional according to the first amendment, however similar things have been done despite that they are illegal under US law. Darn those atheists, pagans, hindus, islams, and every other religion(or lack thereof) for asking the christians to follow the same laws they have to

Oh well abortion violates right to life. So yeah let's drop American law document... things.

Actually they DO NOT have to. The FOCA act has not yet been passed into law. And these religious hospitals have threatened to close their doors and lay off all of their employees if the bill is passed.

LOL and you don't think it will be? Cause it will.

Actually condoms would help, if they were used. The problem is you have the pope saying they don't work and not to use them. On top of that you have a common misconception in Africa that simply by putting a condom on you can get AIDS. Way to help dispel that rumor and hopefully spare some people the suffering of HIV/AIDS there mr. pope

Yeah that's totally what the Africans think. Way to be an idiot mr. walker.

Oh yes because communism sure brightened up the 20th century. Thanks communism!

Your argument is... I dunno a word for it.

[quote]Perhaps you should look up my evidence for abortion in the abortion argument thread. Also, simply because YOU think something is immoral or wrong DOES NOT give you the right to force others to act according to your principles. Hence civil liberties are being infringed upon.[/quote]\r\n\r\nYes shame on me for finding killing babies immoral. Bad Nurv.\r\n[quote]Evidence? Please? Since homosexuality is a naturally occurring preference which occurs in ~10% of the population.[/quote]\r\n\r\nEvidence that homosexuality is between two guys or girls? Uhh... Evidence that it'll catch on in a few million years? You're right that probably won't happen.\r\n[quote]Actually it's not. Correct me if I'm wrong but the bible says "thou shalt not kill" doesn't it? Seems pretty clear cut. I don't see god offering extenuating circumstances in which you can.[/quote]\r\n\r\nActually it is. Your stupidity and arrogance is so funny. [url=http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/capital_punishment.htm]\r\n*high five*\r\n[quote]I'm referring to wars caused by or claimed to be supported by religion. Seems kind of strange that so much death has occurred in the name of a religion that says "Thou shalt not kill".[/quote]\r\n\r\nCorruption in the church, and we suddenly say it should be outlawed or something. So does that mean politics should be outlawed?\r\n[quote]Oh and in response to the 'moral decline of America by removing prayer from school' as put forth in the above link, here are some proving that the guy is full of BS. Here's some scary statistics:[/quote]\r\n\r\nThose were just guidelines for when you can pray in school dude.\r\n[quote]Only 23% of women getting abortions are NOT religious:rnLink[/quote]\r\n\r\nHow many do you think are manipulated and lied to? None of course :D NOT.\r\n[quote]Actually this is clearly unconstitutional according to the first amendment, however similar things have been done despite that they are illegal under US law. Darn those atheists, pagans, hindus, islams, and every other religion(or lack thereof) for asking the christians to follow the same laws they have to[/quote]\r\n\r\nOh well abortion violates right to life. So yeah let's drop American law document... things.\r\n[quote]Actually they DO NOT have to. The FOCA act has not yet been passed into law. And these religious hospitals have threatened to close their doors and lay off all of their employees if the bill is passed.[/quote]\r\n\r\nLOL and you don't think it will be? Cause it will.\r\n[quote]Actually condoms would help, if they were used. The problem is you have the pope saying they don't work and not to use them. On top of that you have a common misconception in Africa that simply by putting a condom on you can get AIDS. Way to help dispel that rumor and hopefully spare some people the suffering of HIV/AIDS there mr. pope[/quote]\r\n\r\nYeah that's totally what the Africans think. Way to be an idiot mr. walker.\r\n\r\nOh yes because communism sure brightened up the 20th century. Thanks communism!\r\n\r\nYour argument is... I dunno a word for it.

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cowmaster1

676 posts

Shepherd

Posted June 26, '10 3:01am UTC

Your argument is... I dunno a word for it

Below average....

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314d1

3,817 posts

Nomad

Posted June 26, '10 3:34am UTC

Yes shame on me for finding killing babies immoral. Bad Nurv.

This is a separate argument, I will just point out that they are not babies. They are fetus.

Actually it's not. Correct me if I'm wrong but the bible says "thou shalt not kill" doesn't it? Seems pretty clear cut. I don't see god offering extenuating circumstances in which you can.

Actually it is. Your stupidity and arrogance is so funny. [url=http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/capital_punishment.htm]
*high five*

He is right there. In fact, it is quite the opposite. The Bible gives many instances were it SAYS to stone someone, for reasons that are completely natural. Do I have to bring up the tired old link?

Corruption in the church, and we suddenly say it should be outlawed or something. So does that mean politics should be outlawed?

Ha.Ha.Ha. It would be fine and dandy if it was once every Melina, but having one once every hundred years or so is an overkill.

How many do you think are manipulated and lied to? None of course NOT.

What do you mean lied to and manipulated? They can think for there selves, despite being religious. Do to everyone's different view of there holy books, it means something different to everyone.

Oh well abortion violates right to life. So yeah let's drop American law document... things.

Not really. Not unless eating cabbage also violates the right to life. Once again different topic.

Oh yes because communism sure brightened up the 20th century. Thanks communism!

Blaming the warped idea of communism that some countries have used as negative for the things the LEADERS have done is as stupid as blaming republic for everything negative America has done, such as virtually genocide the Native Americans.

[quote]Yes shame on me for finding killing babies immoral. Bad Nurv. [/quote]\r\n\r\nThis is a separate argument, I will just point out that they are not babies. They are fetus. \r\n\r\n[quote]    Actually it's not. Correct me if I'm wrong but the bible says "thou shalt not kill" doesn't it? Seems pretty clear cut. I don't see god offering extenuating circumstances in which you can.\r\n\r\nActually it is. Your stupidity and arrogance is so funny. [url=http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/capital_punishment.htm]\r\n*high five* [/quote]\r\n\r\nHe is right there. In fact, it is quite the opposite. The Bible gives many instances were it SAYS to stone someone, for reasons that are completely natural. Do I have to bring up the tired old link?\r\n\r\n[quote]Corruption in the church, and we suddenly say it should be outlawed or something. So does that mean politics should be outlawed? [/quote]\r\n\r\nHa.Ha.Ha. It would be fine and dandy if it was once every Melina, but having one once every hundred years or so is an overkill. \r\n\r\n[quote]How many do you think are manipulated and lied to? None of course :D NOT. [/quote]\r\n\r\nWhat do you mean lied to and manipulated? They can think for there selves, despite being religious. Do to everyone's different view of there holy books, it means something different to everyone. \r\n\r\n[quote]Oh well abortion violates right to life. So yeah let's drop American law document... things. [/quote]\r\n\r\nNot really. Not unless eating cabbage also violates the right to life. Once again different topic. \r\n\r\n[quote]Oh yes because communism sure brightened up the 20th century. Thanks communism![/quote]\r\n\r\nBlaming the warped idea of communism that some countries have used as negative for the things the LEADERS have done is as stupid as blaming republic for everything negative America has done, such as virtually genocide the Native Americans.

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MageGrayWolf

9,462 posts

Farmer

Posted June 26, '10 3:35am UTC

This is a misconstrued version of atheism that verges on agnosticism. Atheists must, to be an atheist, assent to the proposition that no god/deities exist. It is not a lack of belief in a god, which would qualify as agnosticism.

No he's correct it is simply the lack of belief. Gnosticism/Agnosticism isn't in the belief spectrum but rather deals with ones knowledge or lack there of, of the deity.

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