I am a christian, i and i strongly belive in my lord jesus christ, and i also belive that if you belive in him and except him as your savior, u will go to heaven. and i also believe that he created the world, not the big bang, or that we came from stupid apes.
Wow mage, going waaaay back!! P. Chirobates was before the divergence of the new and old world monkeys. But yes, P. Chirobates is an ancient ancestor of ours, and is a monkey. Thus through monophylitic classification then we too, are monkeys.
Wow mage, going waaaay back!! P. Chirobates was before the divergence of the new and old world monkeys. But yes, P. Chirobates is an ancient ancestor of ours, and is a monkey.
Yeah, Though I can understand the confusion on "Our last common ancestor was a part of a group called the Old World Monkeys.", it's often said that old world monkeys refers to Ceropithecidae which is a branch we diverged from not directly branching off from. Though as indicated with the link I posted even if we were to go with that we are still directly branching off from monkeys. When I was looking for that link it seems to me the term old world monkey comes across as a bit muddled in it's use.
OK then. Can we just rev up a new argument. I haven't been on and I don't feel like looking through all these pages. So. Enlighten me. What's the argument?
scientists say that the entire UNIVERSE is fine tuned... if the bond of atoms were even a bit stronger the then suns/stars would burn themselves out very quickly. if the force was even a tiny bit lighter then a sun/star wouldnt be able to old such heavy isotopes that ensure its existence and nuclear fission. and how is this? by chance? i dont think so. for all we know, there could be a central colonized universe shooting seeds of matter out into the blankness far far away.... and this seed would explode in the 'big bang' and create our universe...
scientists say that the entire UNIVERSE is fine tuned
Fine tuned for what? It is the way that it is because if it were any other way we wouldn't be here. Arguing for fine tuning is an extremely fallacious argument.
explain then.if the universe didnt happen to work and we got a bunch of dust, what happens?nothing. it couldnt keep going until it works because all of the matter couldnt just simply come back together spontaneously and do a giant explosion again.
Exactly. Nothing would happen. But the point is that something DID happen and it happened in such a manner to allow what we can experience today. There is no point speculating about what might have been. Even in mathematics, the probability of something happening which is known to have occurred is exactly 1 in 1. There is no other possible outcome because the outcome has already been observed. This is the same as the arguments for fine tuning. There is no base of reference for us to determine what is and is not tuned, therefor such an argument has no merit.
exactly. the chances of this happening are incredibly small, like me throwing someone off a cliff and picking out the right string of hair out of millions during flight. how could this happen? its mathematically almost impossible.
Science is different. There can be different outcomes, even if one has been observed.
Not in this instance. The probability of things being how they are is exactly 1 in 1. There is no merit in arguing any other possibilities because there are none. This is one of the fundamental flaws in the intelligent design / creationist theories. We can speculate all we want about any other possible outcomes but the fact remains that there are no other alternatives.
Science doesn't deal in probabilities or such things. It deals with observable, testable, verifiable, and demonstrable evidence. There is no merit in debating possibilities and attempting to give them merit in the realm of scientific study.
my point is that perhaps a dying species or something created the universe via the big bang -.- and i do realize things are presently what they are, but i am speculating on the CREATION of the universe...
There are an infinite number of other outwcomes. The chances are closer to 1 in infinity.
You are way off. There is no other probability of an event which has already occurred than 1 in 1. This is high school level math in the US and honestly junior high math for most of the developed nations. You cannot argue probability unless the outcome is undetermined. It simply doesn't work.
And regarding the 'fine tuning' argument, that's like saying that the odds of you looking exactly the way to do are infinitesimal, therefor you have been finely tuned. It's an incredulous argument has no application outside of philosophical debate. It doesn't exist or have meaning in any observable, testable environment.
my point is that perhaps a dying species or something created the universe via the big bang -.- and i do realize things are presently what they are, but i am speculating on the CREATION of the universe.
Possible. It's just as likely as any other hypothesis regarding existence pre-creation. However we have some evidence that the universe expands to a critical point, then returns on itself again in a sort of cycle. This is related to the 'big crunch' theory and suggests that this sort of cyclical expansion/contraction is the causation of existence. Honestly, compared to every other hypothesis proposed I tend to find this one the most credible.
