Forums → Games → GC CS: Better method(possibly) than Psorek's semi optimal 16-combine formula

thunderrider, i don't want to nerve you but

Here, however, (o+b) + (b+b) + (b+b) +b is NOT the same thing as (o+b) +b +b +b +b +b.

were do i get 2 grade 4 gems here ?
maybe it's a misunderstanding. i don't talk about the complete formula (Steps A-I) here, just about the two examples above.

if ob is a result of a fusion of 2 grade 1 gems, it's a grade 2 gem.
then i combine this with the first bb (2 black grade 1 gems now 1 black grade 2 gem), it becomes black/orange grade 3 gem.
then i combine this with the other black grade 2 gem and get
a better black/orange grade 3 gem.
and finally i combine it with a black grade 1 gem and get a little better
black/orange grade 3 gem.

if not, i give up ....

or of course i combine the grade 2 orange/black 5 x with a black grade 1 gem.

Ugh. Basically, what that line means is a grade 2 OB supergemmed with 5 G1 B. Why is it so hard to understand?

I was trying to say, earlier, that (o+b) +b +b +b +b +b is NOT the same thing as (o+b) + (b+b) + (b+b) +b.

The reason is that (o+b) results in a grade 2 gem. You want to add 5 grade 1 gems to it. The end result is a grade 2 gem that has the cost of 7 grade 1 gems.

(o+b) + (b+b) + (b+b) +b results in two grade 2 gems being added together, forming a grade 3 gem, which then eats a grade 2 gem and a grade 1 gem. The end result is a grade 3 gem that has the cost of 7 grade 1 gems.

Nested parenthesis can get very hard to follow, but you really want to follow them correctly. When there are no parenthesis, order of operations says to just go left to right.

I did use both formulas at the X5 "last level" and as it was good not as good as you screen captures are.

My max skill level is 18 and my wizard level is 137 - i have just did x5 "finish level" and with your trick it was easier in glaring mode -

I had to wait until having enough mana but both gems did well with 2 M points enraged giants

well our max is 60, that's why lol :P

Thunderrider's (TR) method is indeed an improvement over Psorek's (P) method, but the benefits are limited to roughly 40% extra in the limit just as the benefits of the "specced" method are limited to about a 40% increase (~20% on each gem element). TR-method is best, but If convenience is an issue, Much of the benefits of TR-method can be achieved by doing it 4-5 times first, then doing only P-method thereafter. Here are the results from the different techniques along with two easier hybrid techniques (from best to worst) for Grade 44 Gem:

Method Bloodbound - ManaLeech
1) TR-Method only: 96.425 - 9.7e10
2) TR-P Hybrid A*: 95.762 - 9.6e10
3) TR-P Hybrid B*: 93.019 - 9.2e10
4) P-Method only: 79.081 - 7.4e10
5) Basic upgrading: 14.964 - 5.8e07

* Hybrid A consists of doing TR method 5 times, then P method thereafter
* Hybrid B consists of doing P method first, then TR method for last 5 steps
note: results are for 60-skill in all relevant attributes.

Summary: TR method is best, but doing TR method five times, then P-method, will come very close (around 99% as effective in limit) and saves a lot of time.

You probably misunderstood my method - I tested with thunderrider mine and his, mine was all the time better.

To do properly mine you 1) perform "method 1" once on g1 orange and black then 2) perform "method 2" till end.

Thunderrider from Page 2: [/quote] Also, just saying, unless you want to use the mega complicated 32 spec of psoreks, if you want to use his 16 combine, use mine instead. ... Unfortunately, 32 spec nullifies it lol. [quote]

So basically according to Thunderrider (and some other testers): Thunder's method > psoreks's Method 2, but (this is the 32 spec since each method is 16 spec each) psoreks's Method 1 + Method 2 > proreks's Method 1 + Thunder's Method (note: you use Method 1 only once).
If you wanna use 16 spec only you can do Thunder's, if you was some extra efficiency for the price of more clicking(not sure how much), you can use psorek's 32 spec combo.

excuse my ignorance, but the goal is to get more mana, right ?

i created a g2 bo and combined this 5 x with a g1 b:
leeches 0,25 mana per hit.

then i created a g2 o:
leeches 0,88 mana per hit

?????

G1 O at base is 0.39 mana per hit, a G2 O at base is 0.54 (base meaning no skill points to True Color or Mana Leech)
G2 BO (both at base) = 0.24 mana per hit, 1.02x damage and specials
G2 BO (both at base) + G1 O base = 0.35 mana per hit, 1.02x
((G2 BO + G1 O) + G1 O) = 0.44 mana per hit, 1.01x
(((G2 BO + G1 O) + G1 O) + G1 O) = 0.51 mana per hit, 1.01x
((((G2 BO + G1 O) + G1 O) + G1 O) + G1 O) = 0.57 mana per hit, 1.01x
(((((G2 BO + G1 O) + G1 O) + G1 O) + G1 O) + G1 O) = 0.63 mana per hit, 1.01x

A pure g2 O gem is better then a g1 B and a g1 O gem combined since the g1 B and g1 O only take 70% of each gem representative specials. Also a g2 O is based on two g1 O.
Now based on base values and combinations, I really don't see how you would have managed to create a g2 gem whose mana value is basically (7 g1 gems) and which has 6 g1 O in it and for it to have less mana per hit then a pure simple g2 O.

Btw this is at base, these optimization formulas are used for 45-60 on the skill tree, since the most difference is seen there. Also the goal is to get more mana, but the mana per hit is not the only way to calculate how you get more mana, you also have to take into consideration attack speed and chain hits. (There is reason why Thunder angers his first waves till they are in the Trillions of HP)

it has 6 g1 b in it, like written in the formula !
and that's what i don't understand.

i think the idea behind all this is that black increases over time and orange benefits from this in a B/O gem.

otherwise i would create a high grade pure orange for a trap or ?

The goal is to get more mana, but the mana per hit is not the only way to calculate how you get more mana, you also have to take into consideration attack speed and chain hits. (There is reason why Thunder angers his first waves till they are in the Trillions of HP). Also these optimization formulas are used for 15/20+ on the skill tree, since the most difference is seen there.

And of course the most important of all Bloodbound:
So here it how it looks at 45 on Mana Leech, Bloodbound and True Colors
G2 BO which is combined with 5 G1 B : 1.14 mana per hit, 1.22x (+0.219 per level)
G2 O : 3.54 mana per hit

G2 BO (at 1000-3000 hits) : 3.54 mana per hit, 3.74x

Due to the attack speed and chain hits, the growth of Bloodbound is very fast, not to mention that after a certain level it begins to grow a lot faster then the linear growth of Poolbound.
So at first it might seem that its not doing much, but in fact we are looking in the long term which in some cases could be the very first wave (depending on how you play the game).

then the optimum is R/O/B ...