Forums → Games → GC:CS New gem recipes are finished and ready to use!

51	21088

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psorek

447 posts

Jester

Posted September 20, '14 9:52am UTC

Together with @12345ieee we've finally finished all of gem math and programming - new recipes are aviable at our git repository. Just read the readme.

Feel free to comment and ask questions, we'll try to answer them ASAP

---- git repository ----

EDIT (12.11.2014):
Recent info from @12345ieee:

Great, seeing that my final program gives correct results I've decided to release the final version of all the gemforce results, including the one of my final program:
General repo
Results folder
Relase notes
read the release notes and/or the readmes at the various folders to find all the informations you need.
Feel free to comment/ask question on this thread, I'll try to answer when I have time.
For who is still reading, I'd like to say I had a lot of fun with this project and learnt a lot, hope this may be useful also to you guys, I'll now move on to other projects, I'll come back here to check out 1.1 when it will be released.
Goodbye
12345ieee

Together with [url=http://armorgames.com/user/12345ieee]@12345ieee[/url] we've finally finished all of gem math and programming - new recipes are aviable at our git repository. Just read the readme.

Feel free to comment and ask questions, we'll try to answer them ASAP :)

---- [url=https://github.com/12345ieee/gemforce]git repository[/url] ----

EDIT (12.11.2014):
Recent info from [url=http://armorgames.com/user/12345ieee]@12345ieee[/url]:
[quote]Great, seeing that my final program gives correct results I've decided to release the final version of all the gemforce results, including the one of my final program:

[url=https://github.com/gemforce-team/gemforce]General repo[/url]
[url=https://github.com/gemforce-team/gemforce/tree/master/results]Results folder[/url]
[url=https://github.com/gemforce-team/gemforce/releases/tag/v1.4]Relase notes[/url]

read the release notes and/or the readmes at the various folders to find all the informations you need.

Feel free to comment/ask question on this thread, I'll try to answer when I have time.

For who is still reading, I'd like to say I had a lot of fun with this project and learnt a lot, hope this may be useful also to you guys, I'll now move on to other projects, I'll come back here to check out 1.1 when it will be released.

Goodbye
12345ieee[/quote]

51 Replies

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Astroshak

268 posts

Peasant

Posted October 4, '14 5:23pm UTC Edited October 4, '14 5:28pm UTC by Astroshak

In the kiwi yesterday, 12345ieee basically hung up his hat. He started University last week, and no longer has the time to devote to this as a project.

He was also fairly distraught when I showed him "real world" example of the weak amp not being successful - I was not able to get as far into an Endurance run using the 64-10 killgem setup as I was with a 32-64 killgem setup (64 spec killgem with 10c amps, all upgraded with 64c, vs 32 spec killgem with 64c amps, all upgraded with 64c). Number of monsters killed was significantly lower with the 64-10 setup than the 32-64 setup.

He did, however, provide Borthel and I executables for his optimized gem creation programs that he developed with psorek. I've got one running right now, for some 14 hours or so at the time I type this, attempting to find the best 512 spec managem using 1024 gems for each of the amps. The way they set it up is you tell the program how many gems you want to limit the main gem to, and then the total number of gems involved, between the main gem and the six amps. After a while (depending on the calculations it needs to make) it will spit out the best it could come up with.

12345ieee was saying something about setting it for whatever with something like 10,000 total gems, and then refining that second number down based on the gem results given, but I didn't really get what he was trying to say. He then said that he was going to leave that as an exercise for us to figure out.

In the kiwi yesterday, 12345ieee basically hung up his hat.  He started University last week, and no longer has the time to devote to this as a project.

He was also fairly distraught when I showed him "real world" example of the weak amp not being successful - I was not able to get as far into an Endurance run using the 64-10 killgem setup as I was with a 32-64 killgem setup (64 spec killgem with 10c amps, all upgraded with 64c, vs 32 spec killgem with 64c amps, all upgraded with 64c).  Number of monsters killed was significantly lower with the 64-10 setup than the 32-64 setup.

He did, however, provide Borthel and I executables for his optimized gem creation programs that he developed with psorek.  I've got one running right now, for some 14 hours or so at the time I type this, attempting to find the best 512 spec managem using 1024 gems for each of the amps.  The way they set it up is you tell the program how many gems you want to limit the main gem to, and then the total number of gems involved, between the main gem and the six amps.  After a while (depending on the calculations it needs to make) it will spit out the best it could come up with.

12345ieee was saying something about setting it for whatever with something like 10,000 total gems, and then refining that second number down based on the gem results given, but I didn't really get what he was trying to say.  He then said that he was going to leave that as an exercise for us to figure out.

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borthelcash

104 posts

Peasant

Posted October 5, '14 5:28am UTC Edited October 5, '14 5:38am UTC by borthelcash

HOW TO CALCULATE THE EXACT TRAPGEM VALUE

The program assumes the gem is in a trap with six amps, so the following values dictate the gem value at the end of a particular run. For example,

whatever_you_named_your_compiled_exe -pitel 32 48

The first number is the upper limit of the value of the trap gem. The second number is the value of all seven gems. Those example values produce a 30-value killgem with 3-value amplifiers (rounded up from 2.67 for each amp). For a 32-spec gem, the run restarts in the following pattern, after 44 gems:

45 27 3 589.744629
46 28 3 611.649536
47 29 3 632.914266
48 30 3 655.186605
49 31 3 676.712931
50 32 3 697.362630

and continues infinitely, for as long as the program is running. For low amp values (close to first value), the infinite pattern-start point is needed to get the first maximum-value trap gem before the start point. Note that the start point moves slower than the growth of the amps, so for e.g. amp-1, or even amp-3 (32 128 and 32 56 respectively, for 32-spec), you can safely optimize for amp +(-3 + n) and higher and always get an exact grade gem.

To get the second number such that nÃ¢ï¿½Â¥0, divide or multiply the first number by whatever value gets you the desired ratio for one amplifier. Then, multiply the amp value by 6 to get the total amp cost. Add that value to the first one to get the "correct" second value.

[b]HOW TO CALCULATE THE EXACT TRAPGEM VALUE[/b]

The program assumes the gem is in a trap with six amps, so the following values dictate the gem value at the end of a particular run. For example,

whatever_you_named_your_compiled_exe -pitel [b]32[/b] [b]48[/b]

[i]45	27	3	589.744629
46	28	3	611.649536
47	29	3	632.914266
48	30	3	655.186605
49	31	3	676.712931
50	32	3	697.362630[/i]

and continues infinitely, for as long as the program is running. For low amp values (close to first value), the infinite pattern-start point is needed to get the first maximum-value trap gem before the start point. [b]Note that the start point moves slower than the growth of the amps, so for e.g. amp-1, or even amp-3 (32 128 and 32 56 respectively, for 32-spec), you can safely optimize for amp +(-3 + n) and higher and always get an exact grade gem.[/b]

To get the second number such that nÃ¢ï¿½Â¥0, divide or multiply the first number by whatever value gets you the desired ratio for one amplifier. Then, multiply the amp value by 6 to get the total amp cost. Add [i]that[/i] value to the first one to get the "correct" second value.

offline

borthelcash

104 posts

Peasant

Posted October 5, '14 5:38am UTC

*such that nâ¥0

offline

Astroshak

268 posts

Peasant

Posted October 6, '14 12:05am UTC

The maf -pitel 512 6656 finished running today. That was the managem program, 512 spec gem, with 1024 gem amps. This is what it told me, for those of you who like parentheticals :

Managem combining scheme:
((((((((b+o)+(b+b))+(b+((o+o)+(b+o))))+(((b+o)+(b+b))+((b+b)+(b+(b+(b+(b+b)))))))+((((b+o)+(b+b))+(b+((o+o)+(b+o))))+((b+((o+o)+(b+o)))+((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))))))+(((((b+o)+(b+b))+(b+((o+o)+(b+o))))+(((b+o)+(b+b))+((b+b)+(b+(b+(b+(b+b)))))))+((((b+o)+(b+b))+((b+b)+(b+(b+(b+(b+b))))))+(((b+b)+(b+(b+(b+(b+b)))))+((b+(b+(b+b)))+((b+(b+b))+((b+(b+b))+(b+(b+(b+(b+(b+(b+b)))))))))))))+((((((b+o)+(b+b))+(b+((o+o)+(b+o))))+(((b+o)+(b+b))+((b+b)+(b+(b+(b+(b+b)))))))+((((b+o)+(b+b))+(b+((o+o)+(b+o))))+((b+((o+o)+(b+o)))+((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))))))+(((((b+o)+(b+b))+(b+((o+o)+(b+o))))+((b+((o+o)+(b+o)))+((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))))+(((b+((o+o)+(b+o)))+((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))))+(((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+o))))+((o+(o+(o+o)))+((o+(o+o))+((o+o)+((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))))))))))))+(((((((b+o)+(b+b))+(b+((o+o)+(b+o))))+(((b+o)+(b+b))+((b+b)+(b+(b+(b+(b+b)))))))+((((b+o)+(b+b))+(b+((o+o)+(b+o))))+((b+((o+o)+(b+o)))+((o+o)+((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))))))+(((((b+o)+(b+b))+(b+((o+o)+(b+o))))+(((b+o)+(b+b))+((b+b)+(b+(b+(b+(b+b)))))))+((((b+o)+(b+b))+((b+b)+(b+(b+(b+(b+b))))))+(((b+b)+(b+(b+(b+(b+b)))))+((b+(b+(b+b)))+((b+(b+(b+b)))+((b+(b+b))+((b+b)+(b+(b+(b+(b+(b+b)))))))))))))+((((((b+o)+(b+b))+(b+((o+o)+(b+o))))+(((b+o)+(b+b))+((b+b)+(b+(b+(b+(b+b)))))))+((((b+o)+(b+b))+((b+b)+(b+(b+(b+(b+b))))))+(((b+b)+(b+(b+(b+(b+b)))))+((b+(b+(b+(b+b))))+((b+(b+(b+b)))+((b+(b+b))+((b+b)+(b+(b+(b+(b+(b+b))))))))))))+(((((b+o)+(b+b))+((b+b)+(b+(b+(b+(b+b))))))+(((b+b)+(b+(b+(b+(b+b)))))+((b+(b+(b+(b+b))))+((b+(b+(b+b)))+((b+(b+b))+((b+b)+(b+(b+(b+(b+(b+b)))))))))))+((((b+b)+(b+(b+(b+(b+b)))))+((b+(b+(b+(b+b))))+((b+(b+(b+b)))+((b+(b+b))+((b+b)+(b+(b+(b+(b+(b+b))))))))))+(((b+(b+(b+b)))+((b+(b+b))+((b+(b+b))+(b+(b+(b+(b+(b+b))))))))+(((b+(b+b))+((b+(b+b))+(b+(b+(b+(b+(b+(b+b))))))))+(((b+(b+b))+(b+(b+(b+(b+(b+(b+b)))))))+(((b+b)+(b+(b+(b+(b+(b+b))))))+((b+(b+(b+(b+(b+b)))))+((b+(b+(b+b)))+((b+(b+(b+b)))+((b+(b+b))+((b+b)+(b+(b+(b+(b+(b+b)))))))))))))))))))

Amplifier combining scheme:
((((((((o+o)+(o+o))+((o+o)+(o+o)))+(((o+o)+(o+o))+((o+o)+(o+o))))+((((o+o)+(o+o))+((o+o)+(o+o)))+(((o+o)+(o+o))+((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))))+(((((o+o)+(o+o))+((o+o)+(o+o)))+(((o+o)+(o+o))+((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))))+((((o+o)+(o+o))+((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))+(((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))+((o+(o+(o+o)))+((o+(o+o))+((o+o)+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))))))))))+((((((o+o)+(o+o))+((o+o)+(o+o)))+(((o+o)+(o+o))+((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))))+((((o+o)+(o+o))+((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))+(((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))+((o+(o+(o+o)))+((o+(o+o))+((o+o)+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))))))))+(((((o+o)+(o+o))+((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))+(((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))+((o+(o+(o+o)))+((o+(o+o))+((o+o)+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))))))))+((((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))+((o+(o+(o+o)))+((o+(o+o))+((o+o)+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))))))+(((o+(o+o))+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))))+(((o+(o+o))+((o+o)+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+o))))+((o+(o+(o+o)))+((o+(o+o))+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))))))))))))))))+(((((((o+o)+(o+o))+((o+o)+(o+o)))+(((o+o)+(o+o))+((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))))+((((o+o)+(o+o))+((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))+(((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))+((o+(o+(o+o)))+((o+(o+o))+((o+o)+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))))))))+(((((o+o)+(o+o))+((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))+(((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))+((o+(o+(o+o)))+((o+(o+o))+((o+o)+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))))))))+((((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))+((o+(o+(o+o)))+((o+(o+o))+((o+o)+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))))))+(((o+(o+o))+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))))+(((o+(o+o))+((o+o)+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+o))))+((o+(o+(o+o)))+((o+(o+o))+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))))))))))))))+((((((o+o)+(o+o))+((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))+(((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))+((o+(o+(o+o)))+((o+(o+o))+((o+o)+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))))))))+((((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))+((o+(o+(o+o)))+((o+(o+o))+((o+o)+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))))))+(((o+(o+o))+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))))+(((o+(o+o))+((o+o)+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+o))))+((o+(o+(o+o)))+((o+(o+o))+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))))))))))))))+(((((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))+((o+(o+(o+o)))+((o+(o+o))+((o+o)+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))))))+(((o+(o+o))+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))))+(((o+(o+o))+((o+o)+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+o))))+((o+(o+(o+o)))+((o+(o+o))+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))))))))))))+((((o+(o+o))+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))))+(((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))))+(((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))+(((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+o))))+((o+(o+(o+o)))+((o+(o+o))+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))))))))))))+(((o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+o))))+((o+(o+(o+o)))+((o+(o+o))+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))))))))))+(((o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+o))))+((o+(o+(o+o)))+((o+(o+o))+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))))))))+(((o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+o))))+((o+(o+(o+o)))+((o+(o+o))+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))))))))+(((o+(o+(o+(o+o))))+((o+(o+(o+o)))+((o+(o+o))+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))))))+(((o+(o+(o+o)))+((o+(o+o))+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))))))+(((o+(o+o))+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))))+(((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))))+(((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))+(((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+o))))+((o+(o+(o+o)))+((o+(o+o))+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))))))))))))))))))))))

For the managem itself, replace the deepest nested b with a r to add the red.

The maf -pitel 512 6656 finished running today.  That was the managem program, 512 spec gem, with 1024 gem amps.  This is what it told me, for those of you who like parentheticals :\r\n\r\nManagem combining scheme:\r\n((((((((b+o)+(b+b))+(b+((o+o)+(b+o))))+(((b+o)+(b+b))+((b+b)+(b+(b+(b+(b+b)))))))+((((b+o)+(b+b))+(b+((o+o)+(b+o))))+((b+((o+o)+(b+o)))+((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))))))+(((((b+o)+(b+b))+(b+((o+o)+(b+o))))+(((b+o)+(b+b))+((b+b)+(b+(b+(b+(b+b)))))))+((((b+o)+(b+b))+((b+b)+(b+(b+(b+(b+b))))))+(((b+b)+(b+(b+(b+(b+b)))))+((b+(b+(b+b)))+((b+(b+b))+((b+(b+b))+(b+(b+(b+(b+(b+(b+b)))))))))))))+((((((b+o)+(b+b))+(b+((o+o)+(b+o))))+(((b+o)+(b+b))+((b+b)+(b+(b+(b+(b+b)))))))+((((b+o)+(b+b))+(b+((o+o)+(b+o))))+((b+((o+o)+(b+o)))+((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))))))+(((((b+o)+(b+b))+(b+((o+o)+(b+o))))+((b+((o+o)+(b+o)))+((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))))+(((b+((o+o)+(b+o)))+((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))))+(((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+o))))+((o+(o+(o+o)))+((o+(o+o))+((o+o)+((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))))))))))))+(((((((b+o)+(b+b))+(b+((o+o)+(b+o))))+(((b+o)+(b+b))+((b+b)+(b+(b+(b+(b+b)))))))+((((b+o)+(b+b))+(b+((o+o)+(b+o))))+((b+((o+o)+(b+o)))+((o+o)+((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))))))+(((((b+o)+(b+b))+(b+((o+o)+(b+o))))+(((b+o)+(b+b))+((b+b)+(b+(b+(b+(b+b)))))))+((((b+o)+(b+b))+((b+b)+(b+(b+(b+(b+b))))))+(((b+b)+(b+(b+(b+(b+b)))))+((b+(b+(b+b)))+((b+(b+(b+b)))+((b+(b+b))+((b+b)+(b+(b+(b+(b+(b+b)))))))))))))+((((((b+o)+(b+b))+(b+((o+o)+(b+o))))+(((b+o)+(b+b))+((b+b)+(b+(b+(b+(b+b)))))))+((((b+o)+(b+b))+((b+b)+(b+(b+(b+(b+b))))))+(((b+b)+(b+(b+(b+(b+b)))))+((b+(b+(b+(b+b))))+((b+(b+(b+b)))+((b+(b+b))+((b+b)+(b+(b+(b+(b+(b+b))))))))))))+(((((b+o)+(b+b))+((b+b)+(b+(b+(b+(b+b))))))+(((b+b)+(b+(b+(b+(b+b)))))+((b+(b+(b+(b+b))))+((b+(b+(b+b)))+((b+(b+b))+((b+b)+(b+(b+(b+(b+(b+b)))))))))))+((((b+b)+(b+(b+(b+(b+b)))))+((b+(b+(b+(b+b))))+((b+(b+(b+b)))+((b+(b+b))+((b+b)+(b+(b+(b+(b+(b+b))))))))))+(((b+(b+(b+b)))+((b+(b+b))+((b+(b+b))+(b+(b+(b+(b+(b+b))))))))+(((b+(b+b))+((b+(b+b))+(b+(b+(b+(b+(b+(b+b))))))))+(((b+(b+b))+(b+(b+(b+(b+(b+(b+b)))))))+(((b+b)+(b+(b+(b+(b+(b+b))))))+((b+(b+(b+(b+(b+b)))))+((b+(b+(b+b)))+((b+(b+(b+b)))+((b+(b+b))+((b+b)+(b+(b+(b+(b+(b+b)))))))))))))))))))\r\n\r\nAmplifier combining scheme:\r\n((((((((o+o)+(o+o))+((o+o)+(o+o)))+(((o+o)+(o+o))+((o+o)+(o+o))))+((((o+o)+(o+o))+((o+o)+(o+o)))+(((o+o)+(o+o))+((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))))+(((((o+o)+(o+o))+((o+o)+(o+o)))+(((o+o)+(o+o))+((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))))+((((o+o)+(o+o))+((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))+(((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))+((o+(o+(o+o)))+((o+(o+o))+((o+o)+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))))))))))+((((((o+o)+(o+o))+((o+o)+(o+o)))+(((o+o)+(o+o))+((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))))+((((o+o)+(o+o))+((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))+(((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))+((o+(o+(o+o)))+((o+(o+o))+((o+o)+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))))))))+(((((o+o)+(o+o))+((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))+(((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))+((o+(o+(o+o)))+((o+(o+o))+((o+o)+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))))))))+((((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))+((o+(o+(o+o)))+((o+(o+o))+((o+o)+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))))))+(((o+(o+o))+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))))+(((o+(o+o))+((o+o)+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+o))))+((o+(o+(o+o)))+((o+(o+o))+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))))))))))))))))+(((((((o+o)+(o+o))+((o+o)+(o+o)))+(((o+o)+(o+o))+((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))))+((((o+o)+(o+o))+((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))+(((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))+((o+(o+(o+o)))+((o+(o+o))+((o+o)+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))))))))+(((((o+o)+(o+o))+((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))+(((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))+((o+(o+(o+o)))+((o+(o+o))+((o+o)+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))))))))+((((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))+((o+(o+(o+o)))+((o+(o+o))+((o+o)+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))))))+(((o+(o+o))+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))))+(((o+(o+o))+((o+o)+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+o))))+((o+(o+(o+o)))+((o+(o+o))+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))))))))))))))+((((((o+o)+(o+o))+((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))+(((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))+((o+(o+(o+o)))+((o+(o+o))+((o+o)+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))))))))+((((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))+((o+(o+(o+o)))+((o+(o+o))+((o+o)+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))))))+(((o+(o+o))+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))))+(((o+(o+o))+((o+o)+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+o))))+((o+(o+(o+o)))+((o+(o+o))+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))))))))))))))+(((((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))+((o+(o+(o+o)))+((o+(o+o))+((o+o)+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))))))+(((o+(o+o))+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))))+(((o+(o+o))+((o+o)+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+o))))+((o+(o+(o+o)))+((o+(o+o))+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))))))))))))+((((o+(o+o))+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))))+(((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))))+(((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))+(((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+o))))+((o+(o+(o+o)))+((o+(o+o))+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))))))))))))+(((o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+o))))+((o+(o+(o+o)))+((o+(o+o))+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))))))))))+(((o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+o))))+((o+(o+(o+o)))+((o+(o+o))+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))))))))+(((o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+o))))+((o+(o+(o+o)))+((o+(o+o))+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))))))))+(((o+(o+(o+(o+o))))+((o+(o+(o+o)))+((o+(o+o))+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))))))+(((o+(o+(o+o)))+((o+(o+o))+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))))))+(((o+(o+o))+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))))+(((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))))+(((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))+(((o+o)+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o)))))+((o+(o+(o+(o+o))))+((o+(o+(o+o)))+((o+(o+o))+((o+(o+o))+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+(o+o))))))))))))))))))))))))))\r\n\r\nFor the managem itself, replace the deepest nested b with a r to add the red.

offline

bilboCGL

323 posts

Peasant

Posted October 6, '14 11:16pm UTC Edited October 6, '14 11:19pm UTC by bilboCGL

For those wanting to use the 256-killgem combine:

A=1+2
B=1+A
C=1+B
D=2+C
E=4+D
F=8+E
G=1+C+A+A+B+D

16+F+(G+E+F)+(A+D+B+B+D+E+F)+
((G+E)+((1+C+A+A+C+D)+(A+D+B+(A+C+A))+G+D))

Edit: Numbers mean "combined gems of base gem" so 1 is clear, 2 is updated once, 4 twice, 8 three times and 16 four times.

Reads IMHO better than
(((((((k+k)+(k+k))+((k+k)+(k+k)))+(((k+k)+(k+k))+((k+k)+(k+k))))+((((k+k)+(k+k))+((k+k)+(k+k)))+(((k+k)+(k+k))+((k+k)+(k+(k+(k+(k+k))))))))+(((((k+k)+(k+k))+((k+k)+(k+k)))+(((k+k)+(k+k))+((k+k)+(k+(k+(k+(k+k)))))))+((((k+k)+(k+k))+((k+k)+(k+(k+(k+(k+k))))))+(((k+k)+(k+(k+(k+(k+k)))))+((k+(k+(k+k)))+((k+(k+k))+((k+(k+k))+(k+(k+(k+(k+(k+k))))))))))))+((((((k+k)+(k+k))+((k+k)+(k+k)))+(((k+k)+(k+k))+((k+k)+(k+(k+(k+(k+k)))))))+((((k+k)+(k+k))+((k+k)+(k+(k+(k+(k+k))))))+(((k+k)+(k+(k+(k+(k+k)))))+((k+(k+(k+k)))+((k+(k+(k+k)))+((k+(k+k))+((k+k)+(k+(k+(k+(k+k)))))))))))+(((((k+k)+(k+k))+((k+k)+(k+(k+(k+(k+k))))))+(((k+k)+(k+(k+(k+(k+k)))))+((k+(k+(k+k)))+((k+(k+k))+((k+(k+k))+(k+(k+(k+(k+(k+k))))))))))+((((k+k)+(k+(k+(k+(k+k)))))+((k+(k+(k+(k+k))))+((k+(k+k))+((k+(k+k))+(k+(k+(k+(k+(k+k)))))))))+(((k+(k+(k+k)))+((k+(k+k))+((k+k)+(k+(k+(k+(k+k)))))))+(((k+(k+k))+((k+(k+k))+(k+(k+(k+(k+k))))))+(((k+k)+(k+(k+(k+(k+k)))))+(((k+k)+(k+(k+(k+(k+k)))))+((k+(k+(k+k)))+((k+(k+k))+((k+(k+k))+(k+(k+(k+(k+(k+k))))))))))))))))

For those wanting to use the 256-killgem combine:

A=1+2 
B=1+A 
C=1+B 
D=2+C 
E=4+D 
F=8+E 
G=1+C+A+A+B+D

16+F+(G+E+F)+(A+D+B+B+D+E+F)+
((G+E)+((1+C+A+A+C+D)+(A+D+B+(A+C+A))+G+D))

Edit: Numbers mean "combined gems of base gem" so 1 is clear, 2 is updated once, 4 twice, 8 three times and 16 four times.

Reads IMHO better than 
(((((((k+k)+(k+k))+((k+k)+(k+k)))+(((k+k)+(k+k))+((k+k)+(k+k))))+((((k+k)+(k+k))+((k+k)+(k+k)))+(((k+k)+(k+k))+((k+k)+(k+(k+(k+(k+k))))))))+(((((k+k)+(k+k))+((k+k)+(k+k)))+(((k+k)+(k+k))+((k+k)+(k+(k+(k+(k+k)))))))+((((k+k)+(k+k))+((k+k)+(k+(k+(k+(k+k))))))+(((k+k)+(k+(k+(k+(k+k)))))+((k+(k+(k+k)))+((k+(k+k))+((k+(k+k))+(k+(k+(k+(k+(k+k))))))))))))+((((((k+k)+(k+k))+((k+k)+(k+k)))+(((k+k)+(k+k))+((k+k)+(k+(k+(k+(k+k)))))))+((((k+k)+(k+k))+((k+k)+(k+(k+(k+(k+k))))))+(((k+k)+(k+(k+(k+(k+k)))))+((k+(k+(k+k)))+((k+(k+(k+k)))+((k+(k+k))+((k+k)+(k+(k+(k+(k+k)))))))))))+(((((k+k)+(k+k))+((k+k)+(k+(k+(k+(k+k))))))+(((k+k)+(k+(k+(k+(k+k)))))+((k+(k+(k+k)))+((k+(k+k))+((k+(k+k))+(k+(k+(k+(k+(k+k))))))))))+((((k+k)+(k+(k+(k+(k+k)))))+((k+(k+(k+(k+k))))+((k+(k+k))+((k+(k+k))+(k+(k+(k+(k+(k+k)))))))))+(((k+(k+(k+k)))+((k+(k+k))+((k+k)+(k+(k+(k+(k+k)))))))+(((k+(k+k))+((k+(k+k))+(k+(k+(k+(k+k))))))+(((k+k)+(k+(k+(k+(k+k)))))+(((k+k)+(k+(k+(k+(k+k)))))+((k+(k+(k+k)))+((k+(k+k))+((k+(k+k))+(k+(k+(k+(k+(k+k))))))))))))))))

offline

bilboCGL

323 posts

Peasant

Posted October 6, '14 11:41pm UTC

I forgot one parenthesis and the edit button is gone...

16+F+(G+E+F)+
((A+D+B+B+D+E+F)+
((G+E)+
((1+C+A+A+C+D)+
(A+D+B+(A+C+A))+G+D)))

Should be right now!

offline

UgAhgItHurts

259 posts

Peasant

Posted October 7, '14 4:59am UTC

Can we generate some comparison numbers? Seems weird that 30 gems (ignoring the u button ones) out of 512 is an optimal combination.

offline

bilboCGL

323 posts

Peasant

Posted October 7, '14 11:28am UTC

I will compare this recipe when I've built my killgem. I plan to compare against straight 'u', 16c, 64c and maybe 1024c.Right now I've just done it once to a pure yellow, so that is not really comparable.
But give e a few days, atm I am pre-endurance/permafreezing with 2.7e34 mana and won't just rush...

offline

12345ieee

135 posts

Farmer

Posted October 7, '14 3:48pm UTC Edited October 7, '14 3:50pm UTC by 12345ieee

I'm always happy to see someone testing my results.
Based on some math on killgems the results order should be:

1) simple 'u'
2) universal 16c
3) killgem 64c
4) orange 1024c
5) orange 4096c
6) killgem 256c

If the order is different (at very high grades) let me know.

12345ieee

offline

bilboCGL

323 posts

Peasant

Posted October 7, '14 5:19pm UTC

I'm pretty sure, I won't do a 4096c.
I did 2 Iterations with a pure yellow and right now the order is as you predicted. 1024c is missing (but works pretty good as mana-amp!)
A simple 8c (2+1+1+1+1+2) is not soooo bad, too, I would remommend it to lazy people

offline

bilboCGL

323 posts

Peasant

Posted October 8, '14 1:55pm UTC

Here is a slightly better readable version of the killgem_amps64-4_ieee

A= 2b + b + b
E= b + y + b
C= b + 2y
D= E + A

(b+y+2y+b+D+
(E+C+
(C+(2y+y+(2y+y+y+y+y))))+
(E+C+D+
(D+
(A+(2b+b+(b+A+2rb))))))

I don't know, if the position for red is optimal, but somewhere I had to place it... for "squeeze the red out", replace the 2rb with a 2b

Why this killgem? I took a closer look at
- killgem_amps32-2_ieee
- killgem_amps64-10_psorek
- killgem_amps64-4_ieee

The 32s was quickly outsorted,
the 64_10 and 64_4 are equal in bloodbound and crit, but the 64_4 is superior in damage, so I decided to use this spec.

I will not use the intended amp-setup but the 256-killgem-combine also on amps.

The resulting numbers of my current run will not be comparable, as I start with shrine-enhanced g1-gems and a 2rb with 3.3e9 hits

offline

thunderrider

641 posts

Peasant

Posted October 8, '14 2:39pm UTC

Astroshak...how do you guys follow that kind of parentheses formula? When I say parentheses, I mean the (1. (x+x) = X, 2. 1+(x+x)+x) = X) formula...

And can you either tree them or make the 1-2-3 line code formula? Thanks. Or just tell me how the heck to read those.

offline

bilboCGL

323 posts

Peasant

Posted October 8, '14 2:53pm UTC

Astro prefers trees, AFAIK...
I put the parenthesis formula to an editor with parenthesis-highlighting, such as 'Notepad2'
Then I shorten the long line in blocks,
first opening parenthesis ends at the end of the complete gem,
I look, where the second opening parenthesis is closed, after the closing parenthesis is a '+' sign, after that plus, I make press return for a new line.
Now I have two gems, with which I start that procedure again.
Then I use the replace-option of the editor: I replace every (g+g) by 2g
After that I look for repeating patterns, build subgems (as in my example A, C, D) and use again the replace-option of the editor.
Then I replace things like (1+(1+(1+2))) with the equivalent 2+1+1+1 for more clearness...
The final combining is strictly from left to right, remaining parenthesis are one gem!
hth

offline

12345ieee

135 posts

Farmer

Posted October 8, '14 3:04pm UTC Edited October 8, '14 3:05pm UTC by 12345ieee

@bilboCGL really don't know why you want to use 256 value amps, but if you have to at least use a gem designed for such amps:

(((((b+b)+(b+b))+(b+((b+y)+(y+y))))+(((b+b)+(b+(b+b)))+((b+b)+(b+(b+(b+(b+(b+b))))))))+((((b+b)+(b+b))+((b+b)+(b+(b+(b+(b+(b+b)))))))+(((b+b)+(b+(b+(b+(b+(b+b))))))+((b+(b+(b+(b+b))))+((b+(b+(b+b)))+((b+(b+b))+((b+(b+b))+((b+b)+(b+(b+(b+(b+b))))))))))))

Note: this gem will be weaker than the other at low hit counts but that's not a problem for you

I'm also sorry for the difficult to read parenthesis format, but my program can't do much better because working with strings in C is hellish.

offline

bilboCGL

323 posts

Peasant

Posted October 8, '14 3:13pm UTC

Only 2 yellow gems??? Kiwi?

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