Forums → Games → GC:CS End game tactics after v1.1
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Hi everyone,
I'd like to collect here some opinions of more experienced players than me on how to tackle some of the changes of v1.1, as the master source of endgame knowledge (psorek's guide) is now slightly obsolete.
Then we can link the two topics together and have an updated end game guide.
EDIT 29/12/14: scattered all over the topic there are a lot of useful info, I may recollect them all in the future.
DISCLAIMER: I'm an high level MP player, what I write here is from my perspective, may not apply so well to low level/not MP.
1) Hatred, is it worth it?
My observations would say not, but I'm still not sure, I seem to get ~20% less exp from lv 7 hatred than without it, but maybe there is a better balance in between, on the other hand it makes the round shorter, so I could actually do more if I was continually grinding exp.
Of course without MP I guess it's a blessing, because it shortens the number of waves you have to play to reach unkillable monsters and lets non-MP players achieve similar exp levels as MP players.
2) Enraging, theory and practice
Now that exp bonus from enraging is a one time factor (one g1 and thousands of g100 give the same result) it makes no sense enraging to killgem's kill power (displayed_crit*displayed_damage).
What I'm doing now is enraging with tons of g2 to make the armor grow during my mana gathering phase (I use over 500 g2 at the later waves) and killing them all with a throwaway killgem with bolt.
Then I start the exp gathering phase and just bomb them up to 999 monsters using as little bombs as possible to keep their HP low: I seem to recall throwing 9 g62 and 8 g68 per wave are two sweet spots, going for 7 bombs was too costly.
Do someone has a better tactic?
3) Goodbye sharding (and permafreezing)
Peter fixed the two bigger exploits we had to get to astronomical mana values
I found (some confirmation would be great) that if you bomb a shard and don't make it spawn you still get the 5% bonus mana, but it's waaay too low to make sharding a viable mana gathering method.
I don't think there is anything we can do about this, other than discover another exploit.
4) Farming high level talisman fragments
Luckily I had already did this time ago, but hatred has made a full traits speed run of Y6 much more difficult, to the point that U upgrading barely gets me to the end, but I cannot get the 3 endurance fragments.
I've always used a method similar to this, are there better ones?
5) Gem recipes
The only gem changed from 1.0.x to 1.1 were slowing and suppressing, both were improved, so the previous recipes for killgems and managems are still valid.
We (psorek and I) actually built better ones than the ones on the guide, but the lack of easy and understandable diagrams for them precludes their use to anyone who isn't willing/don't have time to parse unfriendly parenthetical/tree formulas.
Is there someone that could help with this?
Recipes can be found there: gemforce results
6) Uncapped skill balancing
Component skills, true colors and resonance were uncapped, great news, but finding a balance between them can be quite tricky.
I may do the math one of these days but at moment, does someone have a thumb rule that gives good results?
EDIT: as usual, thanks to AG forum for messing with all my formatting.
Yay for walls of text
12345ieee
EDIT: I forgot to mention the #gemcraft IRC channel, where a lot of top players reside stably (access from https://kiwiirc.com/client if you don't have a favourite irc program).
- 108 Replies
hello,
i have read a lot of your topics from long time on gemcraft serie.
i was wanting to find a simple way to improve gem and tried many time the supergemming.
i was wanting to see what short time consuming methode i could use else to press U and i tried the 8 spec ( not sure i understood spec therme) to combien : (G+G)+G+G+G+G+(G+G) and suprise no gain pressing U was the same >.< on specials but gem is lower in damage / range / speed ( lower level)
tried some other recip and the result was lower than just pressing U for same mana gem result ...
the only improvement i found is when i use grade 2 gems in starting not grade 1 ...
can you confirme ?
i have black to 120 / orange to 120 and yellow to 120
PS: thx to all gemcraft addict as i am for all the help i gathered many times.
Hm, I have some questions that I do not find any updated infos on:
1) Does the reload speed still have an effect in late game, or is it capped?
2) Is there any use in skilling multi hit? Or is that capped as well?
3) pool bound is still useless?
4) Do you guys still use amps? If so, what gems to you use?
5) Edit: One more: kill gem in trap: incresed specials or anti armor in late game?
Thx for the help
Let's look at optimal 8-combine for orange gems, it happens to be this:
(((((2o+o)+o)+o)+o)+2o)
exactly what you wrote.
It makes your gem cost 8x, so must be compared against 3 times pressing U.
What you are probably seeing (and reporting a benefit starting with g2s) is the special bonus from component skills that gets applied after grade 7: the U combine gets faster to g7 and so it gets that bonus before, but when both are over g7 at the same cost you'll see that 8c overpowers 3U by over 5% per combine.
As you noticed firerate and damage suffers from this, but it does not actually matter because you do not need damage and firerate cap is very easy to reach anyway.
For gems that needs damage (killgems, aka R/Y/B gems) the damage growth is taken into account when creating combines/specces, don't worry.
Note that your component skill level does not matter to see which is the best combine, but they offer an increasing g7 bonus, making that distinction appear more clearly the higher the skill is.
Hope it's all clear
12345ieee
1) Does the reload speed still have an effect in late game, or is it capped?
2) Is there any use in skilling multi hit? Or is that capped as well?
3) pool bound is still useless?
4) Do you guys still use amps? If so, what gems to you use?
5) kill gem in trap: incresed specials or anti armor in late game?
6) Do i upgrade my farm gem, by adding pure orange?
7) (((((2o+o)+o)+o)+o)+2o) => I take the gem I want to upgrade, copy it 5 times, upgrade two of them, add the 4 low ones to one of them, and then combine them? Did I get it right?
i cant update my prev post anymore, sry
Sorry for doubleposting, but as usual AG forum keeps getting my edit button away.
1) Yes, still capped with a very easy to reach cap.
2) There's no point in having more CH than monsters on screen and the huge bbound those gems tend to have gets you a huge CH even with minimal skills and red amount in gems.
3) Poolbound is very useful at the beginning, I kill all the wave in my mana gathering phase with a white killgem and farm hits on a RB gem at the beginning, then after I gathered enough mana I build a black killgem using the gem that got hitfarmed.
4) Amps are extremely useful! You should always surround your gems by the maximum number of amps possible (6 for traps, 8 for kg in towers).
The best gems are pure O for managems and pure Y for killgems.
A good rule of thumb is keeping the mg amps 3 eq. grades lower than the mg and the kg amps 4 eq. grades lower than the kg.
If you prefer a more in depth proportion look here
GODDAMMIT AG FORUM AND ITS "YOU DON'T HAVE TIME TO EDIT ANYMORE"
1) Yes, still capped with a very easy to reach cap.
2) There's no point in having more CH than monsters on screen and the huge bbound those gems tend to have gets you a huge CH even with minimal skills and red amount in gems.
3) Poolbound is very useful at the beginning, I kill all the wave in my mana gathering phase with a white killgem and farm hits on a RB gem at the beginning, then after I gathered enough mana I build a black killgem using the gem that got hitfarmed.
4) Amps are extremely useful! You should always surround your gems by the maximum number of amps possible (6 for traps, 8 for kg in towers).
The best gems are pure O for managems and pure Y for killgems.
A good rule of thumb is keeping the mg amps 3 eq. grades lower than the mg and the kg amps 4 eq. grades lower than the kg.
If you prefer a more in depth proportion look here
5) Bolt at the beginning to summon heavily armored monsters that the managem can't kill but that a bolted killgem can easily kill.
At the end barrage if the gem is in trap or doesn't matter if you keep it in a tower
6) NOPE! Use a managem combine, you can find them here.
The easiest are:
8c managems - (((((2m+m)+m)+m)+m)+2m)
16c managems - (((((((2m+m)+m)+m)+m)+2m)+(2m+m))+((2m+m)+2m))
When you upgrade the managems you need to upgrade the amps, too, use the combine on the amps, too. If you are extra committed to the extra mana you could use a combine designed for pure orange gems, in which case:
8c leech - (((((2o+o)+o)+o)+o)+2o)
16c leech - ((((((((2o+o)+o)+o)+o)+o)+2o)+2o)+((2o+o)+2o))
7) Perfect.
thx for the reply,
i will test on more iteration to see the real win ^^
Lotero:
7) (((((2o+o)+o)+o)+o)+2o) => I take the gem I want to upgrade, copy it 5 times, upgrade two of them, add the 4 low ones to one of them, and then combine them? Did I get it right?
ieee:
6) NOPE! Use a managem combine, you can find them here.
The easiest are:
8c managems - (((((2m+m)+m)+m)+m)+2m)
The nope is wrong and Lotoreo is right. Lotero just described with words how to work with parenthesis.
@BilboCGL:
6) is an answer to 6), the NOPE is referred to:
6) Do i upgrade my farm gem, by adding pure orange?
The answer to 7) is in 7):
7) Perfect.
Dear all,
thx for the valuable suggestions amd hints
I just made 60 billion xp, by far my highest since 1.1 and reached level 5600!
Thank you all!
edit: And special thanks to 12345ieee
Version 1.1.2 was just released, with some tweaks to Hatred.
I'm going to see if it is viable now.
Did a run with full hatred on F1. And it's pretty meh.
Compared to my pre-1.1.2 non-hatred run on M2:
I think hatred is only viable is you can full clear endurance, otherwise you just don't get enough raw experience.
I did two pretty decent runs yesterday 3,6e11 an 4,2e11 exp with all traits except hatred and now im WL 10014
omnia16-8 for both mana and kill.
My "trick":
At least 4 manatraps, one killtrap and 3-4 killgems in towers for hitfarming AND destroying alot of beacons. During mana gathering i angered with 999 g1 so the towers wont kill monsters (around g58 i had to switch to 2x600 g1). Only resocketing and beacon dropping Giants were angered with just 12x g50 and i had two towers set to "structure" and one to "least HP".
I think the more space a map has for beacons the more exp will be possible.
Do you have an extremely high tolerance of lag?
It's possible that there's something weird with beacons (seem to give more xp than they say). But let's say you get 50 beacons at 2k each per wave with a multiplier from everything of like ~1000x (mana mult 5 * talisman 2.5 * 100 settings), that's still maybe 100M per wave late game, or 1/3 of your xp. Sounds good, but that's a pretty high estimate, and you're still killing most people's scores on non-beacon xp
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