First of all, no posting religious comments about how stuff is wrong in this thread. Of course everyone is allowed to state their opinion, but Christians and other religious people who just post about premarital sex, same sex relationships and other deviations from the standardized common norm is wrong because their biblething says so, tends to ruin the healthy discussion. So please, if you have nothing else to say, don't bother saying it. I talked with Strop about getting this topic up and running, so... I don't think I'm not allowed to, though some of you youngsters may find it offensive. Please, if weird things about sex disturbs you, stop reading now. Kthnxbai.
Now, the actual topic of this thread is pretty wide. Heavy reading about what paraphilias are: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraphilia But to sum up (info taken from Wikipedia's article): * Exhibitionism: the recurrent urge or behavior to expose one's genitals to an unsuspecting person. (Can also be the recurrent urge or behavior to perform sexual acts in a public place, or in view of unsuspecting persons.) * Fetishism: the use of inanimate objects to gain sexual excitement. Partialism refers to fetishes specifically involving nonsexual parts of the body (for example, feet). * Frotteurism: the recurrent urges of behavior of touching or rubbing against a nonconsenting person. * Pedophilia: a psychological disorder in which an adult experiences a sexual preference for prepubescent children, or has engaged in child sexual abuse. * Sexual Masochism: the recurrent urge or behavior of wanting to be humiliated, beaten, bound, or otherwise made to suffer for sexual pleasure. * Sexual Sadism: the recurrent urge or behavior involving acts in which the pain or humiliation of a person is sexually exciting. * Transvestic fetishism: arousal from "clothing associated with members of the opposite sex." * Voyeurism: the recurrent urge or behavior to observe an unsuspecting person who is naked, disrobing or engaging in sexual activities, or may not be sexual in nature at all.
For anyone that do not "suffer" from a paraphilia, most of that can probably sound - grotesque... But many people in this world have one or more paraphilias.
Actually, just to annoy you all with a wall of text and ****s, here's the List of paraphilias as found here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_paraphilias I think many of them are extremely gross, but most people have at least one of the listed. Personally, I have seven.
Some paraphilias have have more than one term to describe them, and some terms overlap with others. * Abasiophilia: love of (or sexual attraction to) people who are lame or crippled and/or who use leg braces or other orthopaedic appliances * Agalmatophilia: sexual attraction to statues or mannequins or immobility * Algolagnia: sexual pleasure from pain * Acrotomophilia: sexual attraction to amputees * Andromimetophilia: sexual attraction towards female-to-male transsexuals * Apotemnophilia: sexual arousal associated with being, becoming, or being perceived as an amputee * Asphyxiophilia: sexual arousal from self-strangulation * Autagonistophilia: sexual arousal from being on stage or on camera * Autassassinophilia: sexual arousal from staging one's own murder * Autoerotic asphyxiation: sexual arousal from self-induced asphyxiation to the point of near unconsciousness * Autogynephilia: a male's sexual arousal in response to the image of himself as female * Autonepiophilia: sexual arousal from impersonating and being treated like an infant * Autopedophilia: sexual arousal from the thought or image of one's self as a child * Bestiality: sexual attraction to animals * Bestiosexuality: sexual attraction to animals * Biastophilia: sexual arousal from assault and rape * Chremastistophilia: sexual arousal from being robbed or being held * Chronophilia: sexual attraction to a partner of a widely differing chronological age * Coprophilia: sexual attraction to (or pleasure from) feces * Cratophilia: sexual attraction to strength * Diaperism: sexual interest in wearing diapers * Erotic asphyxia: sexual attraction from asphyxia (also called "breath control play" or "strangulation", including autoerotic asphyxiation * Erotophonophilia: lust murder * Exhibitionism: the recurrent urge to or enacting of exposing one's genitals to unsuspecting, nonconsenting persons; also, sexual arousal by engaging in sexual behavior in view of third parties. * Fetishism: sexual interest in nonliving objects * Formicophilia: sexual attraction to smaller animals, insects, etc. crawling on parts of the body * Frotteurism: sexual arousal from the recurrent urge or behavior of touching or rubbing against a non-consenting person * Gerontophilia: sexual arousal from significantly older partners * Gynandromorphophilia: sexual attraction to women with penises, men cross-dressed as women, or male-to-female transsexuals * Gynemimetophilia sexual attraction towards male-to-female transsexuals * Hebephilia: sexual attraction to pubescent children * Homeovestism: sexual arousal by wearing the clothing emblematic of one's own sex * Hybristophilia: sexual arousal to people who have committed crimes, in particular cruel or outrageous crimes * Infantophilia: sexual attraction to children five years old or younger * Infanitilism: sexual pleasure from dressing, acting, or being treated as a baby * Kleptophilia: (or kleptolagnia) sexual arousal from stealing * Klismaphilia: sexual pleasure from enemas * Lactaphilia: sexual arousal from human milk * Lust murder: sexual arousal from committing (or trying to commit) murder * Mammaphilia: (also mammagynophilia, mastofact) sexual arousal from the breasts of a woman * Masochism: the recurrent urge or behavior of wanting to be humiliated, beaten, bound, or otherwise made to suffer * Menophilia: sexual arousal from menses or menstruating women * Morphophilia: sexual preference for individuals with a particular body shape and size * Mucophilia: sexual arousal from human mucus * Mysophilia: sexual attraction to soiled, dirty, foul or decaying materials * Narratophilia: sexual arousal in the use of dirty or obscene words to a partner * Nasophilia: sexual arousal from touching the nose of a person * Necrophilia: sexual attraction to corpses * Nepiophilia: sexual attraction to infants * Olfactophilia: sexual stimulus with smells or odors * Osmolagnia: sexual arousal from odors * Osphresiolagnia: sexual arousal dependent on smells or odors * Ozolagnia: sexual arousal dependent on smells or odors * Ondinism: (also undinism) sexual attraction to urine * Partialism: exaggerated sexual interest in a non-genital very specific body part * Peodeiktophilia: sexual arousal from exposing one's penis * Pedophilia: (British spelling: paedophilia) sexual attraction to prepubescent children * Pedovestism: sexual arousal from imitating children in appearance * Pictophilia: sexual attraction to pictorial pornography or erotic art * Podophilia: sexual attraction to human feet * Renifleurism: sexual arousal in response to the smell of urine * Sadism: deriving pleasure, or in some cases sexual arousal from giving pain * Salirophila: sexual arousal by soiling (only the appearance of) the object of one's desired partner * Scatophilia: sexual arousal from feces * Scoptophilia: (or scopophilia) sexual preference for watching others masturbating or having sex * Raptophilia: sexual preference for committing rape * Somnophilia: sexual arousal from sleeping or unconscious people * Sthenolagnia: sexual arousal from the demonstration of strength or muscles * Stigmatophilia: sexual interest in piercings, tattoos * Symphorophilia: sexual arousal from disasters * Telephone scatologia: being sexually aroused by making obscene phone calls to strangers * Telephonicophilia: being sexually aroused by making obscene phone calls to strangers * Transvestic fetishism: arousal from "clothing associated with members of the opposite sex." * Transvestophilia: sexual preference for a cross-dressered partner * Trichophilia: sexual arousal from hair * Troilism: (also spelled triolism) sexual interest in watching one's regular sexual partner having sex with a third party, usually unbeknownst to the third party * Urophagia: sexual attraction to consuming urine * Urophilia: sexual attraction to urine, including urinating in public, urinating on others, and being urinated on by others; * Vampirism: sexual arousal from drawing, sucking, or drinking blood * Vomerophilia: sexual attraction to vomit * Vorarephilia: sexual attraction to eating others or the idea of being eaten by others; usually in one piece * Voyeurism: sexual arousal through secretly watching others in intimate situations, such as disrobing, being naked, or having sex * Zoophilia: sexual attraction to animals * Zooerastia: sexual attraction to animals * Zooerasty: sexual attraction to animals * Zoosadism: sexual gratification derived from causing pain and suffering to animals
Fetishes and partialisms * Anesthesia fetishism * Balloon fetishism * Blood fetishism (also haematophilia) * Breast fetishism * Breast expansion fetishism * Crush fetish * Diaper fetishism * Doll fetish * Fat fetishism (also lipophilia) * Foot fetishism * Garment fetishism * Hand fetishism * Hypnofetishism * Impregnation fetish * Lipstick fetishism (straight and trans varieties) * Medical fetishism * Navel fetishism * Nose fetishism (also nasophilia) * Panty fetishism * Pregnancy fetishism * Racial fetishism * Robot fetishism * Shoe fetishism * Silk/Satin fetishism * Smoking fetishism (Capnolagnia) * Spandex fetishism * Tickling fetishism (also acarophilia) * Total enclosure fetishism * Transformation fetish * Wet and messy fetishism: sexual arousal by having substances deliberately and generously applied to the naked skin, or to the clothes people are wearing
Japanese terms Though these fetishes originated in Japan, they have recently gained popularity in other countries, particularly the Americas. * Nyotaimori: sexual arousal by eating sashimi or sushi from the body of a (usually naked) woman * Omorashi: sexual arousal to one's or a partner's feeling of having a full bladder * Tamakeri: sexual arousal from having a male kicked in the groin by a woman * Wakamezake: sexual arousal by drinking alcohol from a woman's body.
Technical terms for non-paraphilic sexual interests * Androphilia: Sexual interest in men * Analloerotic: Lacking in sexual interests towards others (but not lacking in sexual drive) * Ephebophilia: Sexual attraction towards individuals in mid- to late adolescence, typically ages 15-19 * Gynephilia: Sexual interest in women * Teleiophilia: Sexual interest in adults (as opposed to pedophilia, etc.)
AND THERE ARE SO MANY MORE! I think it's Rule 35 that states, if it exists, someone has a fetish for it.
Also, sorry about the ****s. It's that word for having intercourse with someone without their consent, you all know it.
Let the comments roll in! As with the Homosexuality thread, there is no particular direction for this topic to take. Just share your thoughts or something. Please keep comments on-topic and lighthearted. Flaming will not be tolerated.
On the topic of whether certain things are mental disorders, really all mental disorders are somewhat dependent on societal expectations; if everyone in the world were bi-polar from a pure brain chemistry point of view, the world would be set up in such a way as to accommodate the associated behavioral tendencies and we wouldn't really know the difference. THe same could be said of many festishes.
I personally take issue with bestiality because of the idea of consent (generally, most animals have to be trained to do it from what I've read) and of course disease issues. But I'm also a huge pet and animal lover so it stands to reason that that one would be an issue for me.
I just quoted this book and I can't recall if it was here or at Kong but from "Prometheus Rising," by Robert Anton Wilson, "the only thing all societies have in common about sexual taboos is that they all have one." SO very, very true.
@ Lige: Awesome. That's a shout-out to all those guys out there who have sex with their cars, and I'm willing to bet there are quite a few.
Enough for there to be TV advertisements along those lines, haha. The question is one of "is it because they are specifically attracted to cars or is it the result of other forces that mean they just happen to have sex with cars?"
...my gosh, I just read what I just typed.
Most furries actually tend to find zoophiles rather disturbing (despite often being associated with that paraphilia), though not as disturbing as plushophiles...
How about diaper-furs xD...okay, let's not cloud the discussion with evocations of prejudices here. From the sociological studies, it appears that much of the negative attitude to zoophilia is a reactive one, much like the rest of it. Previously, when the 'fandom' was a smaller community of people that hadn't garnered any public attention there was the luxury of being able to adopt a very open attitude but now that the public eye and voice plays significantly upon a fur's self-consciousness...
Which ties in with what millahnna was saying. In the case of the community what seems to most determine who is amenable to what is how worried they are that people are going to think they're perverted as a result. It takes something else to be able to transcend this kind of politics and exist as somebody independent of such things.
All people have to be trained to do what we do, so I'm not sure how this is an issue. Unless of course you'd want to go into the specifics?
I meant trained in the sense of attraction. From most of what I've read from animal behaviorists (which is granted, not much), other animals GENERALLY will not instinctively attempt sexual activities with humans or any other animal not closely tied in the species sense.
Now keeping in mind that I'm a pet person, and therefore have the "my cat is my family mentality," this is emotionally for me, very similar to a person training their young child to engage in similar activities (because the pet/human bond involves similar trust and obedience issues to that of the parent/child relationship). For me, this becomes less true (but still disturbing) when the activity involves animals that are not commonly regarded as pets. The only difference between the two for me is that I can objectively look at my bias regarding bestiality and acknowledge the emotional source for it in my own thoughts. I cannot do the same with pedophilia (which for accuracy purposes I must point out involves a specific age of minor and age gap from adult, stat rape is a different matter for another topic).
When I DO take that step back and look at my bestiality bias, my biggest problem with it is the potential for disease. Some STDs with unknown origins are thought to have come from such acts. SHeep or chicks dude. You can have one or the other but not both. Heh.
Now being more specific on the pedophilia issue, stat rape is not pedophilia, though I suppose it may be on the sliding scale of the same behavior. I have a personal issue with stat rape because of anecdotal situations. When I was 17 my boyfriend was 21. My mom loved him thus he was never charged with stat. Another friend went to jail for stat rape because he and his girlfriend shared the same age gap (there are other facts to that case that bother me greatly). My mother was nearly prosecuted for stat rape because her boyfriends parents did not like their 17 year old son dating an 18 year old with a toddler (I was the toddler). And finally, when both parties are minors (say a 15 year old straight couple) the boy is often prosecuted for stat while the girl is not, depending on the state here in the U.S.
In addition, while I am uncomfortable with the idea, I have seen arguments for societies with vastly different structures where what most of us would call true pedophilia (very young children with a grown up) would not acutally be societally inappropriate (I add the disclaimer that I still find it disturbing). I will probably get the specifics of this wrong, but as I recall the person was speaking of a tribal community with a coming of age religious rite for youn warriors that involved fellatio on elder tribesmen as a sort of "absorbing warrior spirit" type of idea. All indications were that while of course the grown men received physical pleasure from this, their intent was pure in the sense of truly believing the rite to benefit the young boys as future warriors (much like eating the heart of one's enemy in other cultures). As an atheist I find the religious implications patently ridiculous. But I also don't feel that I have the sociological knowledge to judge the children as being "abused."
Didn't realize board censor. All those asterisks are Stat r a p e; stat being short for statutory in case any are unfamiliar with the term. Here in the U.S> laws on that subject vary from state to state but the general concept is an adult with a teen.
Ooh, nice meaty post to help me procrastinate from my very boring neuropsych research.
I meant trained in the sense of attraction. From most of what I've read from animal behaviorists (which is granted, not much), other animals GENERALLY will not instinctively attempt sexual activities with humans or any other animal not closely tied in the species sense.
Well, let's see if I can articulate where you're coming from: I'm going to assume that what you've said is true- for example while there is documented evidence that, say, dolphins have specifically solicited humans for sexual activity (which carries considerable risk of trauma btw), other species simply don't relate to human sexual function enough for them to be 'sexually compatible' due to a difference in stimuli and their interpretation.
The resulting objection is a double-edged sword. It implies that this is unacceptable on the grounds of coercion but at the same time the disparities also call into question the significance of such beyond the basic principles of animal abuse. Ultimately to me, it is not really any different from a contemporary discussion on 'domestication' of animals- or, in my terms, a process of compromise between differing systems of behavior.
The complications mainly come from the rhetoric surrounding sex itself: is this relevant to animal rights or notions of dignity, can an animal not consent or feel obligated and therefore feel violated etc. etc. Does it make a difference as to what kind of activity is undertaken?
And the question that I'd directly be asking you, millahnna, would be how far you take the analogy of thinking of your pet as your child.
When I DO take that step back and look at my bestiality bias, my biggest problem with it is the potential for disease. Some STDs with unknown origins are thought to have come from such acts. SHeep or chicks dude. You can have one or the other but not both.
Ah, zoonoses. If you think about it this is really no different from human-human STIs or even just infections in general, given that the fundamental similarities are there: transmission of an infectious organism, except this time between a human and non-human. What would be important here would be since they're the same thing the same risk managment would have to be used i.e. use protection, I guess. And watch out for those claws, haha.
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I have no time to go into the details of sexual activity of minors as of now, but have lots to say on it, so that'd be for later.
I can't remember, were plushophiles on the list? People who hump teddy bears...
o shi- i didnt think of that one, XD.
@milhana, to the beastiality thing, i understand where you are coming from for i too have a pet, and care for it the best i can. BUT, i wouldnt charge the people that took part in beastiality as wrong and committing animal abuse. Yes, there are plenty of STDs that you can possibly obtain while in these acts, but you have to think, there are probably just as many for human human sexual acts. And i do have to agree with Strop on that some animals may just have such a difference in stimuli. And to the pedophilia, i dont really think that the 17 and 21 years old thing is a large enough difference to be counted as pedophilia. My idea of pedophilia is about 25 and maybe around 15?
and off subject for a sceond....a will never be able to meet up to strops and milhanas walls of texts =(
But I'm also a huge pet and animal lover so it stands to reason that that one would be an issue for me.
Real zoophiles fall in love with their pets... It's a bit weird, but they do the stuff they do because they love their pets sliiightly more than the average pet owner.
...my gosh, I just read what I just typed.
Lol. Just lol. It happens to me too^^
Which ties in with what millahnna was saying. In the case of the community what seems to most determine who is amenable to what is how worried they are that people are going to think they're perverted as a result. It takes something else to be able to transcend this kind of politics and exist as somebody independent of such things.
Many are still very open about it. Hecks, I was kinda surprised at the sudden subject changes in the conversation when I was in the same room as two random furries - I think it went from discussing that particle collider, to rectal capacity (Thor, dammit, Thor!), to grammar... Very, very smooth transitions, I don't know how!
I meant trained in the sense of attraction. From most of what I've read from animal behaviorists (which is granted, not much), other animals GENERALLY will not instinctively attempt sexual activities with humans or any other animal not closely tied in the species sense.
I could tell you a story about two dogs of mine... When our shedogs *censor is evil* were in heat, they'd try their best to hump me or my mom's legs... Both healthy male dogs, never trained to do anything to humans. One day I was just bored, and allowed one of them to hump my knee because I wanted to see what happened ... well hello there, big wet spot on pants. I agree that generally animals don't... But it happens...
@millahna: Statutory *censor* is a strange subject, with how much it varies and all... In Denmark, we are considered old enough to take responsibility for our sexlife when we turn fifteen, so as long as no one reports anyone for*censor*, I think (I have not read up on the law) a 21 year old is allowed to be with a 15 year old. Personally I think 15 is a bit too young to be legal pantsprey, but yeah. That whole tribal thing actually... Makes sense to me... I'm not quite sure what it is in pedophilia that is said to destroy the child's psychological health. Forced sex, obviously, that leaves scars no matter how old the victim is. I strongly disapprove of pedophilia, but since I don't see anything wrong other than the 'forced' aspect, I have little societies in my imaginary worlds were it is perfectly normal...
Does it make a difference as to what kind of activity is undertaken?
Hecks yeah. Human penises being shoved up small animal orifices is slightly more of a moral issue than animal penises being guided by humans into their own small orifices - because of the potential pain. Guys f***ing cats??
Real zoophiles fall in love with their pets... It's a bit weird, but they do the stuff they do because they love their pets sliiightly more than the average pet owner.
i think its because they love them in a different way not because te=hey love them more.
One day I was just bored, and allowed one of them to hump my knee because I wanted to see what happened ... well hello there, big wet spot on pants.
im sorry but i honestly had to lol at this.
n Denmark, we are considered old enough to take responsibility for our sexlife when we turn fifteen
15 seems a little low, in america its 18 i think
Hecks yeah. Human penises being shoved up small animal orifices is slightly more of a moral issue than animal penises being guided by humans into their own small orifices - because of the potential pain. Guys f***ing cats??
Apologies in advance for typoes -- I'm bad about them to begin with bu now I has the whiskey. Woot?
15 seems a little low, in america its 18 i think
Varies from state to state (some it's 18, some it's 16, in many it's still 16 for boys 18 for girls, a whole other rant altogether). ANd some states do account for situations like that I described with my mom; where the age gape between the minor and the adult is so small that their age difference is meaningless.
Generally, stat rape in the stats works out that the girl is often called as a hostile witness in court cases (meaning she will say on the stand she consented but due to her age that's just confirmation that the boy did wrong). Rarely are women prosecuted for stat rape. But in states that account for the small age gap, it usually along the lines of a less than 4 year age gap means the minor has to press charges (whereas traditional stat cases are pressed by the parent(s) regardless of what the minor says). For reasons I would hope are obvious to most readers of this thread, the whole idea as currently handled in U.S. law is a huge pet peeve of mine; double standards much? I'll give credit to the states with the age gap thing.
Hecks yeah. Human penises being shoved up small animal orifices is slightly more of a moral issue than animal penises being guided by humans into their own small orifices - because of the potential pain. Guys f***ing cats??
Yeah huge part of my issue with beastiality, and why I do support laws against, at least to some extent. THe guy in Wasghinton who died (or was it Oregon) who resulted in laws on the books, well he only really hurt himself. All reports from animal experts show the horse to be fine. But when it's the human doing the humping, poor critter prolly thinks it's at the vet (if the vet's thermometer were on steroids).
Strope, you asked about my animals as family issue. I probably take it further than many pet peeps but not as far as some. Growing up the cats and occasional dog were the closest I had to siblings and I was one of those kids who never had to be taught not to pull Fluffy's tail anyway. Wild squirrels used to eat of my hand, feral cats follow me home etc. I'm a crazy animal nut (not peta style) and critters seem to be able to sense that in people.
SO yeah my cat as my kid thing, definitely a huge contributing factor to my discomfort with the idea. But to give myself credit, I feel I'm fairly honest about that; I can be somewhat objective on the issue. Not having human kids ever (a decision founded in behavior from my childhood, and awareness of my adulthood since I'm 32) so it's a fair argument that there's a degree of instinctive substitution going on there. But then again a lot of parents of "furkids" who also have human kids would feel the same so, whatever.
i think its because they love them in a different way not because te=hey love them more.
My bad on the way I put the words together. Yes, different way. The more part was just to indicate the different kind of relationship, but I admit to have failed slightly on constructing that sentence.
im sorry but i honestly had to lol at this.
and yet again i had to lol
Laughter is healthy.
15 seems a little low, in america its 18 i think
Fifteen is a bit low, but then again, if the young ones wanna have sex there's not really anyone stopping them... Since it's unlikely that the underage part will get prosecuted, why would they care... I think a girl I went to school with got pregnant when she was fourteen.... The legal age thing is there to protect against abuse from adults, is it not?
The legal age thing is there to protect against abuse from adults, is it not?
It's supposed to be but it's not unheard of for an underage boy to get prosecuted while the underage girl is treated as a victim, or for controlling parents to go after their daughter's boyfirned when he just turned 18 (and daughter is only a few months away from). The latter is almost exactly what happened to my mother.
Regarding that whole legal age thing... What is the point of it anyway? I have never heard of a case were it has actually done any good - if a grown person does something to a minor against that minors will, wouldn't the usual laws against different kinds of sexual assault be enough? Is it really necessary to have that specific niche of law to protect minors? I've heard it been abused (that whole 'arents disapprove of slightly older partner and report them' thing), but I haven't seen it's good side... Is there one?
Growing up the cats and occasional dog were the closest I had to siblings and I was one of those kids who never had to be taught not to pull Fluffy's tail anyway.
Hey, me too. And ouch. . . for that thermometer image... *shiver*
