Lets talk about heaven.... - Armor Games Community

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rafterman

600 posts

Nomad

Posted April 5, '10 2:24am UTC

First-- Life. Life is too improbable to be created out of accident. And life is just too much of a perfect machine to be created by accident. I mean life is far beyond perfect, but the complexity is just to complex to be created on accident. And the life a cell. There is no explanation of what I know of what the driving force of molecules to create life. I mean before what we would call life today.

Third-- Existence. Existence of itself is just too improbable to be created out accident. The probability of this universe existing is just too inconceivable to be explain by just by our laws of physics.

Given the opertunities, its bound to happen, whether or not it takes 500 trillion years.

Second-- Stars to black holes. How a star dies to become a black hole. Black holes in theory are actual holes in the universe. So that means there is something outside of this universe. This could be God's domain.

No, they are holes in the universe any more than diamonds are holes in the ground.

And I honestly could careless about the evidence.

I can make up a religion thats sounds better if you want, if no evidence is required.

[quote]First-- Life. Life is too improbable to be created out of accident. And life is just too much of a perfect machine to be created by accident. I mean life is far beyond perfect, but the complexity is just to complex to be created on accident. And the life a cell. There is no explanation of what I know of what the driving force of molecules to create life. I mean before what we would call life today.\r\n\r\nThird-- Existence. Existence of itself is just too improbable to be created out accident. The probability of this universe existing is just too inconceivable to be explain by just by our laws of physics.[/quote]\r\n\r\nGiven the opertunities, its bound to happen, whether or not it takes 500 trillion years.\r\n\r\n[quote]Second-- Stars to black holes. How a star dies to become a black hole. Black holes in theory are actual holes in the universe. So that means there is something outside of this universe. This could be God's domain.[/quote]\r\nNo, they are holes in the universe any more than diamonds are holes in the ground.\r\n\r\n[quote]And I honestly could careless about the evidence.[/quote]\r\nI can make up a religion thats sounds better if you want, if no evidence is required.

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BeastMode10

374 posts

Nomad

Posted April 5, '10 2:31am UTC

Okay, my evidence of God. Here they are.

YOUR evidence. That makes it faith-based.

First-- Life. Life is too improbable to be created out of accident

Probable, but still possible. There are BILLIONS upon BILLIONS of stars, as well as BILLIONS of BILLIONS of years, the product of which would generate a reasonably big number to accomodate the probability of functionable life.

And life is just too much of a perfect machine to be created by accident. I mean life is far beyond perfect, but the complexity is just to complex to be created on accident

If the life of Earth didn't develop into complex organisms, you wouldn't be thinking about God, nor would you be reading this message from a computer moniter, as you might be at this very moment. It's not a threat, I'm just saying that Earth's organisms didn't have to develop into complex creatures, but luck dictated it to be so.

Also, life's complexity will have to reach a peak. You could have spoken (typed?) those exact same words as an advanced alien, or as an underdeveloped organism.

What I'm saying is that what you assume to be "complex creatures", could, in another sense, be underdeveloped or even perfect creatures in the perspective of another species.

There is no explanation of what I know of what the driving force of molecules to create life.

Does there have to be a moral driving force? For the most part, the creation of life was a matter of luck.

Second-- Stars to black holes. How a star dies to become a black hole. Black holes in theory are actual holes in the universe. So that means there is something outside of this universe. This could be God's domain.

Are you referring to wormholes, and transportation to the theoretical "white hole"? According to most astronomists/cosmologist/whatevers, wormholes are evidently extremely unstable, and collapse at the slightest disturbance, i.e. a God's attempt to travel to our universe/galaxy to create or observe us.

Third-- Existence. Existence of itself is just too improbable to be created out accident. The probability of this universe existing is just too inconceivable to be explain by just by our laws of physics.

And how exactly did you scientifically determine the probability of existence? Are you speculating based on beliefs, or attempting to establish valid scientific points?

[quote]Okay, my evidence of God. Here they are.[/quote]\r\n\r\nYOUR evidence. That makes it faith-based.\r\n\r\n[quote]First-- Life. Life is too improbable to be created out of accident[/quote]\r\n\r\nProbable, but still possible. There are BILLIONS upon BILLIONS of stars, as well as BILLIONS of BILLIONS of years, the product of which would generate a reasonably big number to accomodate the probability of functionable life.\r\n\r\n[quote]And life is just too much of a perfect machine to be created by accident. I mean life is far beyond perfect, but the complexity is just to complex to be created on accident[/quote]\r\n\r\nIf the life of Earth didn't develop into complex organisms, you wouldn't be thinking about God, nor would you be reading this message from a computer moniter, as you might be at this very moment. It's not a threat, I'm just saying that Earth's organisms didn't [i]have[/i] to develop into complex creatures, but luck dictated it to be so.\r\n\r\nAlso, life's complexity will have to reach a peak. You could have spoken (typed?) those exact same words as an advanced alien, or as an underdeveloped organism.\r\n\r\nWhat I'm saying is that what you assume to be "complex creatures", could, in another sense, be underdeveloped or even perfect creatures in the perspective of another species.\r\n\r\n[quote]There is no explanation of what I know of what the driving force of molecules to create life.[/quote]\r\n\r\nDoes there have to be a moral driving force? For the most part, the creation of life was a matter of luck.\r\n\r\n[quote]Second-- Stars to black holes. How a star dies to become a black hole. Black holes in theory are actual holes in the universe. So that means there is something outside of this universe. This could be God's domain.[/quote]\r\n\r\nAre you referring to wormholes, and transportation to the theoretical "white hole"? According to most astronomists/cosmologist/whatevers, wormholes are evidently extremely unstable, and collapse at the slightest disturbance, i.e. a God's attempt to travel to our universe/galaxy to create or observe us.\r\n\r\n[quote]Third-- Existence. Existence of itself is just too improbable to be created out accident. The probability of this universe existing is just too inconceivable to be explain by just by our laws of physics.[/quote]\r\n\r\nAnd how exactly did you scientifically determine the probability of existence? Are you speculating based on beliefs, or attempting to establish valid scientific points?

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MageGrayWolf

9,462 posts

Farmer

Posted April 5, '10 3:17am UTC

Okay, my evidence of God. Here they are.

I'm not going to comment to much on your evidence considering there are already plenty here ripping it apart. But I did want to point out one of the main points you seem to be trying to say is "it wasn't all by accident". The problem here is no one is saying that. existence of life and even the universe itself is simply the end result of what one would expect from such processes. So it's no more accidental then getting water when hydrogen and oxygen is combined.

I really just use the Qu'ran more as a moral background.

Keep in mind this is the same moral guide that says kill the infidels where ever you find them. Like the Bible the Qur'an is a really poor moral guide full of contradictions.

I'm just afraid that God might be real, and throw me to hell.

You might want to relax a bit here. If there is a god/s your odds of getting the right religion and then the right denomination of that religion are extremely small if any of them are even correct at all. So believing "just in case" is very much like playing a lottery and not even knowing if there is a jackpot with the one your playing.

I mean a paradise where I have no pain, no boredom, no negative emotion, just positive. And I have to earn that paradise, by being faithful. And I honestly could careless about the evidence. Religion keeps me movin' forward, and keeps me positive and happy. And that's all I truly care about.

The idea of an afterlife where I get to be happy and reunited with all my loved ones was one of the last vices of religious mindset I let go of. So from a purely emotional stand point I do understand where your coming from. But just because an idea is comforting does not reality make. While your waiting for this better existence to come along in ways your letting what you already have pass you by.

[quote]Okay, my evidence of God. Here they are.[/quote]\r\n\r\nI'm not going to comment to much on your evidence considering there are already plenty here ripping it apart. But I did want to point out one of the main points you seem to be trying to say is "it wasn't all by accident". The problem here is no one is saying that. existence of life and even the universe itself is simply the end result of what one would expect from such processes. So it's no more accidental then getting water when hydrogen and oxygen is combined.\r\n\r\n[quote]I really just use the Qu'ran more as a moral background.[/quote]\r\n\r\nKeep in mind this is the same moral guide that says kill the infidels where ever you find them. Like the Bible the Qur'an is a really poor moral guide full of contradictions.\r\n\r\n[quote]I'm just afraid that God might be real, and throw me to hell.[/quote]\r\n\r\nYou might want to relax a bit here. If there is a god/s your odds of getting the right religion and then the right denomination of that religion are extremely small if any of them are even correct at all. So believing "just in case" is very much like playing a lottery and not even knowing if there is a jackpot with the one your playing.\r\n\r\n[quote]I mean a paradise where I have no pain, no boredom, no negative emotion, just positive. And I have to earn that paradise, by being faithful. And I honestly could careless about the evidence. Religion keeps me movin' forward, and keeps me positive and happy. And that's all I truly care about.[/quote]\r\n\r\nThe idea of an afterlife where I get to be happy and reunited with all my loved ones was one of the last vices of religious mindset I let go of. So from a purely emotional stand point I do understand where your coming from. But just because an idea is comforting does not reality make. While your waiting for this better existence to come along in ways your letting what you already have pass you by.

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roman291

54 posts

Peasant

Posted April 5, '10 3:47am UTC

I lost the argument already...sigh..don't need to rub it in. I don't have anymore. I guess there is a possibility that there is no God. But I'm still going to have "Faith" he does exist.

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MageGrayWolf

9,462 posts

Farmer

Posted April 5, '10 4:03am UTC

@mage what about the torah?

Not as well versed in the Torah but doesn't it include books such as Leviticus? Which has a whole list of who to kill and why.

I lost the argument already...sigh..don't need to rub it in. I don't have anymore. I guess there is a possibility that there is no God.

Wasn't meaning to rub it in, just wanted to point out an error in your evidence. Also wanted to comment on just how strong your platform for believing is.

But I'm still going to have "Faith" he does exist.

Does it really make sense to you to believe in something with no proof to back it up?

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bluedevil

542 posts

Nomad

Posted April 5, '10 4:11am UTC

For the posts about muslims in the beginning........ Araf is the Muslim sheol or borderland between heaven and hell for those who are, from incapacity, neither morally bad nor morally good.
Araf is also a partition. Between hell and paradise there is a high wall, an a'raf. On this partition stand men who have escaped from hell but who are not (yet) permitted to enter paradise. They yearn to enter paradise, but their sins and virtues are evenly balanced. Does that help explain a bit? I am a muslim, but i dont know much about it. Im still a kid....

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roman291

54 posts

Peasant

Posted April 5, '10 4:44am UTC

I guess it's not God, I'm holding on to. It's my morals. I'm Christian backgrounded. It's sketched in my mind that believing in God is moral. I'm honestly not really Muslim nor am I Christian.

I honestly really don't have a religion. I've tried Christianity, agnosticism, even went into Buddhism for a little, and Islam. I honestly don't know why I went back into Islam. I'm just a confused person on religion.

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MageGrayWolf

9,462 posts

Farmer

Posted April 5, '10 4:47am UTC

I guess it's not God, I'm holding on to. It's my morals. I'm Christian backgrounded. It's sketched in my mind that believing in God is moral.

Morality is a subjective matter so you really don't need a religion to have morals.

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jonnypants23

1,353 posts

Farmer

Posted April 7, '10 9:43pm UTC

you have to provide evidence that this something extra even exists

The proof is in the Bible . Its all around you . You just have to open your eyes .

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deserteagle

1,633 posts

Nomad

Posted April 7, '10 11:11pm UTC

The proof is in the Bible . Its all around you . You just have to open your eyes .

A book of philosophy is not enough. you have to open your eyes and think about what you are reading.

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wajor59

909 posts

Nomad

Posted April 8, '10 12:51am UTC

I honestly really don't have a religion. I've tried Christianity, agnosticism, even went into Buddhism for a little, and Islam. I honestly don't know why I went back into Islam. I'm just a confused person on religion.

Be kind to yourself. After all aren't we all students, trying to see what is speaking to our spirit?

I was baptized at a young age, thought I knew it all by 13, so I quit going to church.
In my twenties, I studied the occult, and even joined a coven. While apart of that group I studied tarot reading, palm reading, runes, Qabalah, the ancient Jewish mysticism. I was also learning the calligraphy of Qabalah.

On night I was home alone reading. I felt a human hand on my shoulder, I immediately blushed when I became overly conscious of what I was reading. Instantly I also was staring at my Bible on the center shelf of my bookcase, in the center of that bookcase. I glanced at my shoulder, no hand. That hand was warm, just like a human's with four fingers and a thumb and heavy like an adult man's hand.
I wasn't afraid just embarrassed. One question was on my mind and this wasn't my thought! "Why do you seek me in the book on your lap when I'm in the book on the shelf?"

The next morning I received a visit from a member of the coven. He told me to be very careful because their was a curse on me. I told him what had happened and he smiled and said that he dreamt the same thing. I was supposed to die, according to the curse, when I was hit by a car the following wk-end.

To finish up my story/testimony I later joined a church whose pastor told me not to use my experience as a part of my testimony. He said no one would believe it.

All I know is this really happened and I've completely changed from the old me. I'm not angry, sarcastic, self-centered, egotistical, career driven, man hater.

[quote][i]I honestly really don't have a religion. I've tried Christianity, agnosticism, even went into Buddhism for a little, and Islam. I honestly don't know why I went back into Islam. I'm just a confused person on religion.[/i][/quote]\r\n\r\nBe kind to yourself.  After all aren't we all students, trying to see what is speaking to our spirit?\r\n\r\nI was baptized at a young age, thought I knew it all by 13, so I quit going to church. \r\n In my twenties, I studied the occult, and even joined a coven.  While apart of that group I studied tarot reading, palm reading, runes, Qabalah, the ancient Jewish mysticism. I was also learning the calligraphy of Qabalah.\r\n\r\nOn night I was home alone reading. I felt a human hand on my shoulder, I immediately blushed when I became overly conscious of what I was reading.  Instantly I also was staring at my Bible on the center shelf of my bookcase, in the center of that bookcase.  I glanced at my shoulder, no hand.  That hand was warm, just like a human's with four fingers and a thumb and heavy like an adult man's hand.  \r\nI wasn't afraid just embarrassed.  One question was on my mind and this wasn't my thought!  "Why do you seek me in the book on your lap when I'm in the book on the shelf?"\r\n\r\nThe next morning I received a visit from a member of the coven.  He told me to be very careful because their was a curse on me.  I told him what had happened and he smiled and said that he dreamt the same thing.  I was supposed to die, according to the curse, when I was hit by a car the following wk-end.\r\n\r\nTo finish up my story/testimony  I later joined a church whose pastor told me not to use my experience as a part of my testimony.  He said no one would believe it.\r\n\r\n All I know is this really happened and I've completely changed from the old me.  I'm not angry, sarcastic, self-centered, egotistical, career driven, man hater.

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samy

4,871 posts

Nomad

Posted April 8, '10 12:54am UTC

Morality is a subjective matter so you really don't need a religion to have morals.

From a perspective of a world lacking absolute truth sure. But I believe that there are a certain set of morals that govern us outside of the realm of government. Otherwise I'd be next in line for an anarchist convention (oxymoronish?)

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Fourhand

23 posts

Nomad

Posted April 8, '10 1:02am UTC

[quote] Otherwise I'd be next in line for an anarchist convention (oxymoronish?)
LOL is my main response to that. So yeah. LOL!

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jonnypants23

1,353 posts

Farmer

Posted April 13, '10 7:58pm UTC

book of philosophy is not enough. you have to open your eyes and think about what you are reading.

So your saying what ?

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rafterman

600 posts

Nomad

Posted April 13, '10 10:54pm UTC

So your saying what ?

The bible is not proof.

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