I understand the reasoning behind Armor Points, and I think it's a great idea from the AG side of the house. By rewarding people for rating and commenting on games, you expose players to more games than they would probably try on their own, as we all have a tendency to stay in our niches. And with as cool a system as AP is set up to be, you encourage loyalty to the site.
However, because you earn AP for leaving feedback on a game, there are pages and pages of one word or one sentence feedback, most of them just expressing the individual's opinion of the game. If you want people to know you think the game "sucks," then give it a low rating. Pages and pages of monosyllabic feedback discourage players from actually reading through any of it to find something useful. Especially in games that allow for multiple hours of gameplay, where reading a few useful tips or hints could help.
Or maybe you're having trouble with some technical aspect, and someone could offer help after reading your feedback. But when someone does ask for help or advice, it's usually buried by the asinine comments of 12-year-olds who "hate it" and only left feedback for the AP.
And in what way does the comment "okay" help the designer/programmer develop better games?
Again, I think the AP system is genius, but I think its application could be modified to provide a better environment for players and programmers alike.
I agree with you ShintetsuWA. I always wonder where people get thousands of comments. Obviously the use of comments is abused through spam. I think that people should be able to post comments if they are making remarks on games or reviews if they really want to review games. If your idea really comes through then I'd expect that people would lose a lot of points. Destroy spam!
These spammers that still care about AP will go to the forums, where all mods, admins, and loyal members are at watch, that will report any demeanor present. All spam will dissipate from there. Yes, there will still, and always be spam, it is the inevitable, but this way, we will actually care about locating, reporting, and destroying it. This will build awareness and first-hand experience on what we don't like here. Do you understand this? This will give the "novices" experience, and they will understand what to do and what not do to.
This is my first thread and my first few posts, so I wasn't aware that there is already a good watch-dog system in place on the forums. That being the case, if spam isn't as prevalent on the forums, I wouldn't say taking points away from there is as important. But I still think there are posts (even in this thread) that add nothing to the conversation, but are written and submitted solely for the purpose of gaining AP.
I wouldn't be surprised to see an influx of spammish posts on the forums if Feedback was no longer rewarded with AP, but with enough regular users and the hard work the mods put in (on a solely volunteer basis, I believe), that spam could be kept to a minimum.
I am willing to wager that it is not done just for the points. I suggest at least going through every single short comment for one game and tabulating the data.
1) The comment box is called "Quick Feedback". Would you be more inclined to post something short and "quick"? or laborious?
2) How many people, do you suppose, actually read the "Rules & Guidelines"?
3) The majority of the short comments are made by users with LESS points than I have and I gain <5 points a day. If it were for points, wouldn't they have commented more frequently? What is their points per day?
4) Do you suppose that mods actually delete asinine forum posts? At what rate?
This situation kind of reminds me of this game called ...Runescape? I'm sure you've heard of it.
The rules were being broken and they suddenly messed up the trade system so the rules couldn't be broken, no scamming or trading real life cash. Then the game died, half as many people play but the good thing is there are less rules being broken.
Is that what you want? A not fun place where everyone follows the rules?
3. 2 AP for Feedback that receives a positive "flag" from the programmer or an admin for quality.
No, that's unfair for those that get noticed. People will go around and be like "hey can u flag up my comments here pls".
I don't think that much should be done except chopping the commenting points value to 1. During beta testing they wanted to see if the Point values were good and they said they would make adjustments but it never changed.
1. Yes, they should be quick, but most of them are lazy feedback. "good game", "hate it", "3/10", this isn't what I want and this isn't what the developer wants. We just want a good, effective sentence. Who said that it has to be a paragraph for a comment?
2. Very few. Like I said, most of everyone just wants to play games. If they do, then let them play games. But remember, this is EVERYONE'S AG. For everyone. We want to see good sentences, not lie in a 24x3 layout of the comments.
3. Sure, they may have less points than you do. So? They still need to break out of the habit. There is a certain person whom I won't say which that triple posts, both forums and comments, that is too lazy to combine them together. And yes, these comments are over the span of 2 minutes. I can tell you that he is getting a good amount of AP a day, even though it is the wrong way, and I can tell that you are thinking about a specific group of people, not the whole majority in general.
4. No they don't, and they should. They only lock, move, and sometimes sticky comments because it's "easier". Yes, there is only a half-dozen mods to spare, but again, this is a job, not something fun to do. They are mods, let them perform like one.
Well this will be hard to crack down on. How do you acknowledge that someone spams and get rid of it? There really is no possible and feasible solution.I believe the moderators are rather strained already, given all the new posts everday. You can flag spammers. Maybe flagging a comment will lead to a deduction of points? But then personal grudges would resurface. The only way is to hope AG users will be able to sustain a sense of responsibility not to spam, but thats highly unlikely.
The bigger the community, the bigger the umber of spammers and rule breakers. I agree with the OP and other posts that follow the idea. I my self try only to post comments that will help the developer to make his game better. Of course sometimes I do small answers, but I wouldn't mind not recieving score for them, as they are ussually to give someone my score or a code to puzzles I've created. Spam will never end, but will surely decrease. It is almost sad to see some of my comments, that I took almost half hou to come up with, getting to the archives after less then a minute.
1) The comment box is called "Quick Feedback". Would you be more inclined to post something short and "quick"? or laborious?
I agree with ShintetsuWA... it doesn't have to be laborious, just useful. "Good game" doesn't help the developer make better games. Tell him why you think it's good. And comments like "3/10" are redundant... you have the option of rating the game directly above the Feedback box.
4. No they don't, and they should. They only lock, move, and sometimes sticky comments because it's "easier". Yes, there is only a half-dozen mods to spare, but again, this is a job, not something fun to do. They are mods, let them perform like one.
I disagree with you here, Shin... Unless I'm mistaken, the mods on the AG forums are unpaid volunteers. Sure, it'd be great if AG could pay people to handle those responsibilities, but our mods are volunteers who put in whatever time they can to improving this community.
As for the "easier" thing... I've moderated and administrated multiple free forums online, and the tools were set up for such ease of use that deleting and locking required the same effort. This forum could be scripted differently, but I doubt it takes any real effort to delete a thread.
Well this will be hard to crack down on. How do you acknowledge that someone spams and get rid of it? There really is no possible and feasible solution.I believe the moderators are rather strained already, given all the new posts everday. You can flag spammers. Maybe flagging a comment will lead to a deduction of points? But then personal grudges would resurface. The only way is to hope AG users will be able to sustain a sense of responsibility not to spam, but thats highly unlikely.
Unless a person is allowed to see who flags their posts or feedback, there can't be a "ersonal grudge."
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I'd love to hear from a programmer about what he'd like to gain from Feedback. And I'd love to hear from a Mod or Admin. I'm sure this topic has come up multiple times, and I'm sure we're addressing particulars they've discussed before.
A) short comments are not spam, B) they don't hurt the site, C) they're ugly. That's it.
1. Yes, they should be quick, but most of them are lazy feedback. "good game", "hate it", "3/10", this isn't what I want and this isn't what the developer wants. We just want a good, effective sentence. Who said that it has to be a paragraph for a comment?
It is not the point of what you want, but what users perceive as acceptable "Quick Feedback". It's quick. It's "feedback" (which isn't necessarily true). Not entirely helpful. And it qualifies as spam.
Another point I've forgotten to bring up that I've brought up before: If game developers want to look for good responses, they will find them.
3. Sure, they may have less points than you do. So? They still need to break out of the habit. There is a certain person whom I won't say which that triple posts, both forums and comments, that is too lazy to combine them together. And yes, these comments are over the span of 2 minutes. I can tell you that he is getting a good amount of AP a day, even though it is the wrong way, and I can tell that you are thinking about a specific group of people, not the whole majority in general.
It sounds like you're contradicting yourself, but it's probably just the way you worded it. I'll respond later.
(A tangential note: This might be construed as ad hominem but I have hardly ever seen any of your game comments.)
I'll provide data later since obviously no one bothers to back up their statements with data, including myself. I'll take the three newest games and two popular games.
4. No they don't, and they should. They only lock, move, and sometimes sticky comments because it's "easier". Yes, there is only a half-dozen mods to spare, but again, this is a job, not something fun to do. They are mods, let them perform like one.
Doesn't that, at least, invalidate your point that spam should be moved to the forums? You don't expect them to moderate the game comments but you know they don't moderate the forums as well as you think they should, yet you'd like the spam to move to the forums? They're fun people who volunteer their time and aren't completely serious 24/7, but I think that was in Alric's post because I seem to take forever to write a post, 30 minutes so far.
I'd love to hear from a programmer about what he'd like to gain from Feedback. And I'd love to hear from a Mod or Admin. I'm sure this topic has come up multiple times, and I'm sure we're addressing particulars they've discussed before.
I've only ever had three developers (maybe four if I've forgotten one) actually reply to my feedback. I think one took my advice. They just want constructive comments (and suggestions to further improve the game or future games) that are not excessively negative.
Mods have a slightly different view as generally illuminated in this thread. Each mod has different standards.
[quote]Doesn't that, at least, invalidate your point that spam should be moved to the forums? You don't expect them to moderate the game comments but you know they don't moderate the forums as well as you think they should, yet you'd like the spam to move to the forums? They're fun people who volunteer their time and aren't completely serious 24/7, but I think that was in Alric's post because I seem to take forever to write a post, 30 minutes so far.[quote]
They don't moderate the game comments as much as they moderate the forums, and I know they will agree with me. If they invade the forums, they will do something about it, because they like the forums better and will keep it clean. If not well...They aren't exactly doing their jobs, are they? Again, most of them just lock and move threads. They don't delete, because they are afraid of confrontations. It's like the users "need" AP.
My idea? Just take out the AP gain on comments and chatting, just take.it.out. There's no reason to keep the two, it's all for spam and conversing between two sides.
but one of the reasons people like AG so much is because of the sense of community here that is absent at other game sites, and that would take it all away and make AG just another fish in he sea instead of the beautiful dolphin ruling the waves like it is today. ------------------
You're right... that is a broad generalization. But even a 12-year-old has the vocabulary and intelligence to write more than a few words. So if you're not 12 and you're spamming feedback just for the AP, then you're a part of the problem and not the solution.
The main reason I took offense to that is because I'm 12......but I agree that anyone can be a problem.
I can't speak for others, but I gain no sense of community from reading a comment like "why are all the newest games reterded?" or a comment where one person says
3/10 game is stupid like *name of person who just posted*
I'm not suggesting that Feedback or the Forums be discontinued; I'm just suggesting that Feedback no longer be rewarded with AP. Honestly, if you stopped giving points for Feedback, not all of the spam would stop, but you'd be more likely to see useful comments, and perhaps even players helping other players when they "can't get past first boss... pleez help!"
As I said, even a 12-year-old has the basic vocabulary and intelligence to write more constructive feedback than "gay."
Of course, there are 15-year-olds posting asinine comments while a 12-year-old is participating in an intellectual conversation with proper spelling and an above-average vocabulary.
I can't speak for others, but I gain no sense of community from reading a comment like "why are all the newest games reterded?" or a comment where one person says
3/10 game is stupid like *name of person who just posted*
I'm not suggesting that Feedback or the Forums be discontinued; I'm just suggesting that Feedback no longer be rewarded with AP. Honestly, if you stopped giving points for Feedback, not all of the spam would stop, but you'd be more likely to see useful comments, and perhaps even players helping other players when they "can't get past first boss... pleez help!"
I was replying to shintetsu, who said that the entire system should be abolished, which would eradicate the sense of community. ------------ I'm a spelling Nazi....that is probably why my spelling is impeccable thus far....
