How many of you go to church? How many of you think its boring? How many of you think you should go to church just to respect your culture? How many of you think its a waste of time?
Well.. I go to church. I think its boring.. since my parents force me to go.. And i also think its also good to go to church to respect God.. So.. its boring at the same time... (its also a waste of time, but when you have to go .. you have to go. OH and also.. sometimes i dont think its boring.)
I only go for carrol singing at Christmas with school everyone hates it and screws around but no one tells the vicar we are forced to go so he thinks we're all good christian boys and girls etc. kinda funny at times though.
I used to go to church as a kid every Sunday, but I still go for the bigger occassions, especially Easter. Being atheist you may think it's pointless, but the church I go to is the largest Greek church in London and so the sense of community you get is very nice. Religion being such a huge part of Greek culture, I'd say it's important, but I don't however think it's necessary. If you don't want to go to church, that's your decision. I don't see it as a waste of time, but obviously many other atheists, especially the younger generation would think otherwise.
Organized religion breeds Fascism. I don't need a pastor (priest, minister, or whatever) to tell me what to believe and how to believe.
I'm not sure you can really reasonably argue that organized religion breeds fascism. That just seems to be a straw man to me. But your second point about not needing a priest (read: religious leader) is something I hear echoed a lot but it's not something I can really understand. From my experience, very few Christians (proportionally speaking) have even read the bible and even fewer of those are able to understand and interpret it. I'm assuming that you're Christian because you mention priest and ministers but not rabbis or other religious leaders. So my question is: what makes someone feel as though they're in any position at all to understand the Christian god (or any god, for that matter) without the support of an expert in the field. Why on earth are you in a better position than a priest is - someone who spends their entire life devoted to god and understanding his message?
Why on earth are you in a better position than a priest is - someone who spends their entire life devoted to god and understanding his message?
I think he's just saying that he doesn't need them to interpret it to him. The main problem I see with pastors is that they can interpret it any way that they would like. When you take the time to interpret it yourself you'll understand it much better. They also won't be putting thoughts into your head. They could say the bible says just about anything, and most people would believe them.
Why on earth are you in a better position than a priest is - someone who spends their entire life devoted to god and understanding his message?
While I agree with you to a certain extent, maybe I can shed some light, or try to. I've had to study and memorize the facts in my science book for various reasons, and I can read and BS my way through interpretting it. A priest may be able to get away with the same, without understanding the full meaning. Bottom line, people want to be able to interpret the Bible themselves without a priest telling them what it means. I enjoy reading the Bible and interpretting it myself, but I also trust that priests may know better than me. However, I will keep an open mind if I find something contradictary to what the priest teaches. I find you need a balance, because if you listen too little you may not be understanding the meaning correctly, and if you listen too much, you may not understand the meaning at all.
The main problem I see with pastors is that they can interpret it any way that they would like. When you take the time to interpret it yourself you'll understand it much better.
I really fundamentally disagree with this point. Someone who is a biblical scholar would be in a much better position to interpret such a text than the average person. There are historical connotations that must be considered and translational errors that are fairly prevalent in most versions of the bible that aren't in Greek or Aramaic. These scenarios simply aren't something the average person is equipped to handle. And why on earth would a religious leader deceive his or her congregation about the meaning of the text? While this probably happens, it's fallacious to assume that this is the rule rather than an isolated exception.
I'm not sure you can really reasonably argue that organized religion breeds fascism.
Organized religion breeds right-wing Conservatism. That, to me, is close to fascism. Too many people have been brainwashed into hating abortion, sex, education, gays, and progress.
So my question is: what makes someone feel as though they're in any position at all to understand the Christian god (or any god, for that matter) without the support of an expert in the field.
I understand the Christian God as a God of love, tolerance, and peace. I rarely hear that from any Christian leader. They try to tangle religion and politics. I do not agree with religion being involved in politics.
I have been told I am a bad Christian or that I'm going to hell for:
1. Not supporting the war in Iraq. 2. Having gay friends. 3. Having sex before marriage. 4. Drinking alcohol. 5. Smoking, even though I quit. 6. Being a left-wing anarchist. 7. Using medication and therapy, instead of prayer, to stop my OCD. 8. Not teaching Christian values in my classroom (I'm a history and Government teacher). 9. Having a best friend who is an atheist. 10. Criticizing America. 11. Criticizing Corporate Capitalism. 12. Not voting. 13. Wearing casual clothing into a church. 14. Not giving 10% of my money to the church (I give to charity instead).
I think you get the point. Where in the Bible does it say to not wear casual clothes in Church? Where does it say I must support Corporate Capitalism and America? Where does it say I must vote and be a Conservative? Where does it say to not use medicine? Etc.
These "religious leaders" are full of crap. I will interpret things for myself.
@thelistman: Wow, that's a terrible experience. I'm sorry people told you that. If it makes you feel better, I don't think you're a bad Christian or you'll go to Hell for any of that. Then again, I'm just a follower, not a priest, so...
Where does it say I must vote and be a Conservative?
Nowhere, but on issues like abortion, Church usually finds it prudent to vote pro-life. But there's another thread for that, and I'm not insulting you. I don't blame you for wanting to interpret things for yourself.
1. Not supporting the war in Iraq. 2. Having gay friends. 3. Having sex before marriage. 4. Drinking alcohol. 5. Smoking, even though I quit. 6. Being a left-wing anarchist. 7. Using medication and therapy, instead of prayer, to stop my OCD. 8. Not teaching Christian values in my classroom (I'm a history and Government teacher). 9. Having a best friend who is an atheist. 10. Criticizing America. 11. Criticizing Corporate Capitalism. 12. Not voting. 13. Wearing casual clothing into a church. 14. Not giving 10% of my money to the church (I give to charity instead).
Yup thats pretty much me except having gay friends (though I'm sure I wouldn't shun them), Criticizing America (I'm American >.<, Criticizing Corporate Capitalism (I would sell my soul than criticize money), Smoking (lung cancer is unappealing), the anarchy and medication.
Basically I also do not see the point in going to church, unless there is a really good speaker.
anyway I applauder you for not teaching Christianity as history, because there is no real evidence as most of the people who wrote the bible itself cannot corroborate itself.
I think some of these are influenced by patriotism, some by political opinion, some by modesty. For instance, I know teachers who tell me that cheaters go to Hell, but obviously that's a bit extreme. Some people in higher positions than you, even if it's not religiously superior, will attempt to judge you. Still, though, I find it beneficial to go to Church and hear what the priest has to say. But I can definitely see your viewpoint on this.
I've only been to about three different churches for more than a year in my life, and only one of those I liked. My parents are divorced, so I used to go to two different churches. We stopped going to the one at my moms house because she was too busy, and didnt come back. The church at my dads house was ok, until my dad found out that most of the kids there were racist. He heard some ten year old in the hallway saying "You need to hang with your own kind, or people gonna start callin' you fudge ripple!" And that was the end of that, and we havent gone to another church since.
1. Not supporting the war in Iraq. 2. Having gay friends. 3. Having sex before marriage. 4. Drinking alcohol. 5. Smoking, even though I quit. 6. Being a left-wing anarchist. 7. Using medication and therapy, instead of prayer, to stop my OCD. 8. Not teaching Christian values in my classroom (I'm a history and Government teacher). 9. Having a best friend who is an atheist. 10. Criticizing America. 11. Criticizing Corporate Capitalism. 12. Not voting. 13. Wearing casual clothing into a church. 14. Not giving 10% of my money to the church (I give to charity instead).
Isn't that pretty much saying its a sin to be a free thinker?
anyway I applauder you for not teaching Christianity as history, because there is no real evidence as most of the people who wrote the bible itself cannot corroborate itself.
I can see the value of teaching things that have happened in proven history with Christianity, but not teaching the bible or Christian messages myself. Being an Atheist, I appreciate whats happened in history and how that relates to religion, and I have no problem with that being taught. Its when the teacher teaches things that are specifically from a Christian standpoint (Saying evolution never happened, it was only Adam and Eve or something like that). If that happened, and it wasn't jokingly, I'd have to walk out. I don't want to be taught Christian beliefs. I have my own beliefs about the world, and I'd rather not have organized religion feeding me a bunch of lines. I wasn't raised in a religious household, so I'm not trained from birth to believe in something like that, which is why some people are still religious today. I know a few people who don't actually believe in whatever religion they say they are, only saying so because their parents want them too, or despite there doubts, they say they're Christian anyways because that's what their family is. Shouldn't people be allowed to make their own choices in religion, not have everything decided for them? Honestly, religion has done much more harm than good in the world, and from my perspective that's more than enough reason not to be forced into believing in it or accepting it as fact.
I teach religion, obviously. Religion has had a bigger impact on this world than anything else I can think of. I mean, to be honest, Jesus and Muhammed are probably the two most influential people in history. It's impossible NOT to teach about them.
I will teach about the basic doctrines as well just to create an understanding of the system. But I don't go around telling people what to believe.