ForumsWEPRWould you consider Atheism a religion?

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jalex13
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jalex13
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I've been asking many people this question, and theyre answers have varied greatly. Yes, Atheism is the belief of no higher power, but is that really a [i]lack of religion, or is it a religion?
1. This depends on peoples beliefs or what constitutes as a religion.
2. Is a lack of religion, a religion?

Please, share your opinions!

-Jalex13-

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HiddenDistance
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HiddenDistance
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Peasant

Well, if we wanted to talk strict definition - here's what the dictionary has to say:

reâ...liâ...gionâ â/rɪËlɪdÊ'Én/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ri-lij-uhn]
â"noun 1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
7. religions, Archaic. religious rites.
8. Archaic. strict faithfulness; devotion: a religion to one's vow.


None of these describe an atheist.
Mike412
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Mike412
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Except for 6, I agree. 1's debatable, but it does say a set of beliefs, which atheism doesn't really have

FireflyIV
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FireflyIV
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To me it is a religion, as its a way of life,


How on earth is atheism a way of life?
Mike412
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Mike412
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How on earth is atheism a way of life?


Superficial view I see.
It shapes my decisions. Because I'm atheist I have different views on life and the universe, and they play out in my day to day life. I don't believe in heaven or an afterlife, so I try to make the most of this one. I can spend hours talking or just thinking about the universe, and I do so quite frequently. My opinions on life are formed by the freedom of being atheist, they change who I am, and play out in day-to-day life

FireflyIV
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FireflyIV
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It shapes my decisions.


Please give me an example.

Because I'm atheist I have different views on life and the universe, and they play out in my day to day life.


How do your views on life or the universe affect your day to day life? Also, different views to who? Theists? Because that is fairly obvious. Just because your views are different doesn't make it a separate religion.

I don't believe in heaven or an afterlife, so I try to make the most of this one


And theists don't try to make the most of their lives?

I can spend hours talking or just thinking about the universe, and I do so quite frequently.


And theists do not do the same?

My opinions on life are formed by the freedom of being atheist, they change who I am, and play out in day-to-day life


Again, can you give me some examples of how they 'lay out'?

Superficial view I see.


Noo, not really. I can't think of a reason you'd choose to say this, other than 'well it sounded nice'.
HiddenDistance
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HiddenDistance
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Peasant

Except for 6, I agree. 1's debatable, but it does say a set of beliefs, which atheism doesn't really have


Why 6? I don't *follow* atheism with devotion. It's a point of view I have based on the available evidence. If there is new evidence available that is accurate & leads one in a different direction, that viewpoint will change. I'm devoted to being critical and scientific, but not a disbelief in god.

And you're right, atheism doesn't have a set of beliefs... so.. I'm not sure what there is to debate about #1.
Mike412
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Mike412
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Please give me an example.

Fair enough.
I'll start with basic, pretty obvious ones:
I do not go to Church.
I spend time arguing this out here despite the fact I'd like to have a nice conversation instead.
I don't celebrate religious holidays for their religious purposes. Yes, I have a "Christmas", but not as a time to worship the supposed birth of Christ. I have it as a celebration to be with people I'm close to, friends, family members, and I use the word "Christmas" only because some of them are religious and might not be willing to make the several state journey and miss Christmas otherwise. I don't celebrate Easter, Lent, or any other religious holidays.
Some other ones:
I decided to take a deeper interest in science, especially evolution, because I have that openness due to not being caught by religious entanglements. Some people who are religious believe in evolution, but if I was raised in a religious family I doubt that possibility would be open to me.
I chose my own code of morals. Honestly, I sometimes wonder if they aren't better than religious based morals. These I decided upon myself, knowing who I am as a person (or at least as well as possible) to suit my lifestyle. I'm not saying I do whatever I want because I decided my own morals, I'm saying I know my own limits and follow those limits. Religion try's to force morals upon people it seems, and that does nothing when it comes to actually deciding to follow them or not. In turn, these morals change my day to day choices.


Just because your views are different doesn't make it a separate religion.

You'd say that a Muslim has a different view on life than a Christian I'm betting. This comment is confusing though, since views seem to make all the difference. Different views lead to different branches within major religions even. Catholics and Protestants for example. They're separate branches of The same religion, yet their opposing views lead to animosity towards once another. I classify them as separate religions, as I bet many Catholics and Protestants do too due to that hostility. Just one big heading isn't enough to appreciate all the differences within religious. Sunni's and Shiites are killing one another because of those different views.

And theists don't try to make the most of their lives?

Some do, yes, but many I know seem to place more importance on getting into an afterlife or living up to christian ideas that they forgot to actually go out and live. If you're focused on getting a reward like heaven, and fear of going to hell, not all choices are going to be best for the person in their lifetime. I'm not going to be incredibly insensitive and say that all religious people don't make the most of their lives, many do so more than me. I make the most of it for different reasons. I don't want some eternal afterlife or any rewards. I just want to live my life and explore possibility's, which to me is making the most it. You'll find some people so wrapped up in religion it excludes everything else, usually for the worse. If you want I can give a few examples, but I'm pretty sure more than a few of them will be blocked since they're considered hate groups because they're so extreme into religion that that they do things serious enough to deserve that title.

And theists do not do the same?

I'm not saying they don't. I'm saying that's one of the things that being an Atheist changes about me. Personally, I wouldn't enjoy talking about Christianity with others because it's rather close-minded. With Atheism, whatever I want to say I can say, changing my viewpoints from one second to the next, without it being false or against any principles, because there are no set principles in Atheism.


Noo, not really. I can't think of a reason you'd choose to say this, other than 'well it sounded nice'.

I said it since you annoyed me off by starting with a close-minded statement that sounded pretty much like an insult, and I view insults to be superficial since they're almost never based in fact. This one was no exception. You didn't back that statement up in your post, you only posted a single line without any form of argument. included. So yes, I think that was a superficial viewpoint to start off with. Oh, and I'll take that as another superficial viewpoint since that's quite a blatant insult right there too.

Mike412
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Mike412
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Why 6? I don't *follow* atheism with devotion. It's a point of view I have based on the available evidence. If there is new evidence available that is accurate & leads one in a different direction, that viewpoint will change. I'm devoted to being critical and scientific, but not a disbelief in god.

And you're right, atheism doesn't have a set of beliefs... so.. I'm not sure what there is to debate about #1.


Sorry for the double post, the last one was getting to long to even keep track of.

For me #6 works. I'm a devoted atheist, so I'm here debating for it.
Also, I'm devoted to the belief of there being no god. Just as Christians try to convert others to believe in their being a god because they're so devoted, I try and convince people to think about reasons why there's not a god. No, I don't go out and give out pamphlets saying why you should be Atheist, but whenever discussion arises about creation I always try to argue out how there is no god.

My argument to number 1 was that individuals have a set of beliefs when it comes to Atheism. Its the wording more than the meaning in this case. I think what they're saying is a set belief among multiple people, but it could also be taken as a set belief system by just a single person.

Yakooza99K
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Yakooza99K
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"A religion is an organized approach to human spirituality which usually encompasses a set of narratives, symbols, beliefs and practices,"

Atheist = No spirituality, church, symbols, narratives, beliefs, or practices.

Thread solved.

Mike412
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Mike412
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1st
Spirituality is not just praying. It includes many other things, such as meditation and being in connection with yourself.

2nd
Church...fail. Simple Christian view. You ignored temples, mosques, and every other type of religious oriented building.
Still, in this case if Atheist did have a Church it'd be an oxymoron, so you're right about this one

3rd
If you'd like a symbol I can draw one right now. Its pretty much a picture of a cross with a circle around it and an X through the middle

4th
I have a narrative for you. One day an atom exploded, forming the universe. The Earth was formed, and eventually through the process of evolution we came into being. I'm currently interested in another Atheist narrative, called the Creation of Chocolate

5th
I believe there is no god. Oh! Wait...that's a belief. That can't be right

6th
I practice laughing when people try to convince me to be religious



As I've already stated, I accept that by definition Atheism is not a religion. This was just for my amusement.

Yakooza99K
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Yakooza99K
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I lack a belief in god. Oh! Wait...that's a belief. That can't be righ



Fix'd
xJonnyPham
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xJonnyPham
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Whether you believe that atheism is a religion or not depends on how much you respect simple definitions of words. By the most commonly accepted definition of the word âreligionâ atheism is not a religion because it lacks every single attribute of the definition of âreligion.â

Of course this only applies if you actually respect the concept that words have meanings. For those who redefine words habitually to get them to mean what they want them to mean you canât argue from a common foundation anyway. So the question of âis atheism a religionâ boils down to âdo you respect the concept that words have actual meanings and arenât simply tools you can twist around to make whatever desired point you want to.â

FireflyIV
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FireflyIV
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I do not go to Church.


My brother is very religious. Yet he does not go to church.

I spend time arguing this out here despite the fact I'd like to have a nice conversation instead.


That sentiment is not exclusive to atheists either.

I decided to take a deeper interest in science, especially evolution, because I have that openness due to not being caught by religious entanglements. Some people who are religious believe in evolution, but if I was raised in a religious family I doubt that possibility would be open to me.


I am the only child of 4 who is atheist. I grew up in a very religious household. My parent didn't hassle me about it at all. In addition, the theory of evolution has nothing to do with religion. Fundamental theists only take issue with it because of its contradiction with religious texts. There are many theists that do believe in the theory of evolution.

These I decided upon myself, knowing who I am as a person (or at least as well as possible) to suit my lifestyle. I'm not saying I do whatever I want because I decided my own morals, I'm saying I know my own limits and follow those limits. Religion try's to force morals upon people it seems, and that does nothing when it comes to actually deciding to follow them or not. In turn, these morals change my day to day choices.


Atheism doesn't define my morals. I don't just steal, lie and cheat because I don't believe I'm going to be punished in the next life for it. Many criminals are in fact very religious. By your logic they would not do what they do because of their beliefs.

Some do, yes, but many I know seem to place more importance on getting into an afterlife or living up to christian ideas that they forgot to actually go out and live.


Depends on your definition of ''living your life to the fullest''. It also can't be generalised to all theists or atheists.

You'll find some people so wrapped up in religion it excludes everything else, usually for the worse.


Extremist theist views cannot be generalised to include all theists.

I said it since you annoyed me off by starting with a close-minded statement that sounded pretty much like an insult, and I view insults to be superficial since they're almost never based in fact. This one was no exception. You didn't back that statement up in your post, you only posted a single line without any form of argument. included. So yes, I think that was a superficial viewpoint to start off with. Oh, and I'll take that as another superficial viewpoint since that's quite a blatant insult right there too.


Interesting you say what I said: (How on earth is atheism a way of life?) was not based in fact, when your initial claim that atheism is a way of life was not based in fact. For another thing, it was a question, not an insult. An insult would be ''How on earth is atheism a way of life?r u liek retrded or sumthin????'' What I said was merely a question. Questions don't require evidence, answers require evidence. As for your claim of being insulted twice, then, until you actually justify your use of the term, my point remains valid.
Mike412
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Mike412
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My brother is very religious. Yet he does not go to church.

There are plenty of people who don't go to Church despite being religious, but I'm saying that because I'm an Atheist I don't go. I don't think your getting my argument. I'm not saying these things are exclusive to me because I'm Atheist. That's practically impossible. I'm saying how being Atheist lets ME do those things, even if some people with religion do them to. Honestly, how can you make an argument based on the fact that some other people do the same thing? No matter what I could possibly say, you can always say that someone in religion does it to. I'm not trying to point out difference, which you seem to think I am, I'm trying to point out things I do personally because I'm atheist. This isn't some globalized view of it, I'm pointing out the things I do as an Atheist, and good for the people who do them do despite being in organized religion.

I am the only child of 4 who is atheist. I grew up in a very religious household. My parent didn't hassle me about it at all. In addition, the theory of evolution has nothing to do with religion. Fundamental theists only take issue with it because of its contradiction with religious texts. There are many theists that do believe in the theory of evolution.

Again, I'm not saying I'm the only person. I'm not going to be incredibly arrogant and say I'm the only person in the world to ever do this, that would be idiotic. My point here is that for some people, religion is restricting them, and Atheism allows more freedom. They're still people who refuse to believe in science because of religion. Yes, as you pointed out many religious people do believe in evolution. But not all of them have that option, and its one of the freedoms that's pretty much guaranteed by living in a non-religious household, and being an atheist.

Atheism doesn't define my morals. I don't just steal, lie and cheat because I don't believe I'm going to be punished in the next life for it. Many criminals are in fact very religious. By your logic they would not do what they do because of their beliefs.

No, by my logic they would do those things. What I stated is that forced morals upon a person have no effect, in which case criminals wouldn't follow them. There are some people who believe in religion, but don't believe in all the things that go along with it. In some cases though, people just don't even care about potential punishments like hell, which also proves that the criminal justice system is pretty flawed. Off topic though. Morals are a strict, set code in religion, like in the Ten Commandments. You may think you don't chose your own morals, but who's choosing them then? Each person has limits when it comes to morals. Some people can't tell a lie because its too difficult, other people have no problem killing. Even if you don't think you chose your own morals, you do, and people who are religious often have conflicting morals, and that means its more difficult for them to follow either set.

Depends on your definition of ''living your life to the fullest''. It also can't be generalised to all theists or atheists.
True, it is impossible to really define living life to the fullest as it takes so many shapes for different people, so I guess this is an invalid point.

Extremist theist views cannot be generalised to include all theists.
But you can't deny that religion brought them to that level. I'm not saying that every single person that's religious is an extremist, but without religion these people probably wouldn't be doing the same things. Take godhatesfags.com. A disgusting site, based upon religious principles. Without those religious principles to back them up, they wouldn't have the argument against homosexuals that far too many religious people do. Religion is far to invasive into the life's of others, even with non-extremists and non-religious people, and despite the idea of separation of church and state it seems to play far too large a role in government

Interesting you say what I said: (How on earth is atheism a way of life?) was not based in fact, when your initial claim that atheism is a way of life was not based in fact. For another thing, it was a question, not an insult. An insult would be ''How on earth is atheism a way of life?r u liek retrded or sumthin????'' What I said was merely a question. Questions don't require evidence, answers require evidence. As for your claim of being insulted twice, then, until you actually justify your use of the term, my point remains valid.

Its the "How on earth" part. That puts extreme skepticism, and usually when someone says that its with a tone as if the thing you just said was completely wrong. I tried to back it up, but in that I wasn't insulting you when I said atheism is a way of life, so I don't see the connection. I could sit here asking questions all day and wait for you to answer them, but that would settle nothing because I could say whatever I want for minimal reasons. Even questions need to have some backing up, its pointless to act a single line question and not at least have another comment defining that parameters of the question. As for the second one, I view it as an insult because you're acting like I don't even have the intelligence to back up a statement I make. Thinking I said it only because "well it sounded nice" demeans my statement, and yes, I'll view that as an insult. Perhaps I was too uptight last night after debating so many topics, many of them with people who seemed to care more about annoying me that actually going anywhere with it, but that still seems offensive to me, and I bet there's other people who would take offense at those two statements as well.

FireflyIV
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I'm not saying these things are exclusive to me because I'm Atheist. That's practically impossible.


If you can't classify how an atheist behaves then the claim that atheism is a religion is unfounded.

My point here is that for some people, religion is restricting them, and Atheism allows more freedom.


So how does this make atheism a religion? Is it a set practice to let your kids decide what they want to believe in?

You may think you don't chose your own morals, but who's choosing them then? Each person has limits when it comes to morals


I'm not disputing that. If we assume this to be true, then there is no way atheism is a religion, because there is no set moral code, which is a pre requisite for religion.

and despite the idea of separation of church and state it seems to play far too large a role in government


That's one of the reasons I'm glad I don't live in the US, but that's beside the point.

Its the "How on earth" part. That puts extreme skepticism, and usually when someone says that its with a tone as if the thing you just said was completely wrong.


Am I not allowed to have the opinion that you are completely wrong?

Let me clarify. This was the post I was reffering to:

Still, reading over the posts I guess it'd make sense for it not to be an official religion. To me it is a religion, as its a way of life, but for definition of it I'd say its not seeing how the definition of it is absence of religion...


I don't see how you tried to back up how it is a way of life. You just stated it.

Even questions need to have some backing up, its pointless to act a single line question and not at least have another comment defining that parameters of the question.


I disagree. In this case, my question was perfectly clear.

As for the second one, I view it as an insult because you're acting like I don't even have the intelligence to back up a statement I make.


As I've already stated above. Your original claim was not backed up in your original post. I made no reference to your intelligence or lack of it.

but that still seems offensive to me, and I bet there's other people who would take offense at those two statements as well.


You can choose to perceive it as you like, but again, with reference to your original post and the subsequent explanation, my question was a valid one.
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