I think it's time that we had someone from the uncommon side of the spectrum speak up about this issue in a serious manner. I have a confession to make.
I am a Christian fundamentalist.
I don't deny it at all. It means that I believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible; I believe that there are things that exist that cannot be empirically proved to exist; I believe that secularism has produced moral decay.
I'm fully aware that many of you do not hold to such principles. That's okay. But that's not the point of this post. I want to tell you what I mean when I say I am a fundamentalist.
Throughout the ages we have seen extremes of religion. Recently we have seen Jihad and the Westboro Baptist Church, among others, which promote hate and violence. To their names are attached the label of the fundamentalist, and from them we receive our distinctively negative connotations of fundamentalism.
To me, fundamentalism is a return to the fundamentals of a religion, to the religion as it was originally intended. The apostles and the early church fathers believed that moral decay was happening, and that the Bible was a literal record of history. They believed simply that Jesus died and rose again and that he would return. That was all. No liturgical pomp and ceremony, and for the first two centuries, little quibbling on minor theological points. That is the religion I hold to. There is no room for hate or intolerance, for we were all "made in God's image." That is my Christianity.
Fundamentalism does not mean that I hold up signs saying that God hates fags, or that I kill, attack, or abuse those of other religions. That is the very antithesis of the fundamentals of Christianity. Fundamentalism, in the state that I have followed it, is the reflection of the simple core ideals that moved those first few believers to follow in Christ's footsteps.
This post covers a huge area. I'm not sure where to begin. I guess I'll start with the question: "In what way do you believe secularism is the root of societal moral decay, and how is this different from forms of 'moral decay' seen in times before the so-called rise of secularism?"
In what way do you believe secularism is the root of societal moral decay, and how is this different from forms of 'moral decay' seen in times before the so-called rise of secularism?
Heres a list of secular governments which failed
Soviet Union The People's Republic of Poland The People's Republic of Czechoslovakia The People's Republic of Romania The People's Republic of Moldova The People's Republic of Mongolia The People's Republic of North Korea The People's Republic of Vietnam The People's Republic of California The People's Republic of Laos The People's Republic of Cambodia The People's Republic of Yugoslavia America [failing] France [twice, by the Germans] Weimar Republic
List of successful non-secular states
Israel America [dollar, pledge, inauguration, motto] Iran Oman UAE Pakistan Syria Jordan Egypt
Moral evils by secularists.
GULAG Communism Stalin Pol Pot Mao Kim Jong Il Torture at Guantanamo Imperialism Destroying Palestine Destroying Iraq Destroying Afganistan Tiananmen Square Massacre Corruption Banking fraud Slavery
[don't worry, i'll give you some ice for that burn]
List of successful non-secular states Iran Oman UAE Pakistan Syria Jordan Egypt
If you think these states are successful, you need to reconsider your entire view on history. Especially Pakistan. That is one of the worst, failed states to ever exist.
This isn't concrete whether or not they are a religious group. Due to how sketchy alot of their links are between homosexuals and various religions and races some people are beginning to believe that they are actually just racists who use religious fundamentalism as a skapegoat. Also, they share no views that a fundamentalist baptist church does.
But on topic.
Fundamentalism is the avid belief in something and doing anything possible to carry out that belief's driving ideal.
"In what way do you believe secularism is the root of societal moral decay, and how is this different from forms of 'moral decay' seen in times before the so-called rise of secularism?"
I heard and evolutionary theory on religion that ties in quite nicely:
One leading idea is that religion is an evolutionary adaptation that makes people more likely to survive and pass their genes onto the next generation. In this view, shared religious belief helped our ancestors form tightly knit groups that cooperated in hunting, foraging and childcare, enabling these groups to outcompete others. In this way, the theory goes, religion was selected for by evolution, and eventually permeated every human society
The relatively recent phenomena of securalism, could mean that these group values and ideals are being stripped away, and the rise of individualism is the cause of 'moral decay'.
I'd buy that, though with the qualifier that there must be more discussion on what exactly is meant by moral decay, as I see you've implied in your use of quote marks!
If you think slavery is a secular idea, you need to go back and read the bible:
Exodus Chapter 21, verse 20:
Direction is given what should be done, if a servant died by his master's correction. This servant must not be an Israelite, but a Gentile slave, as the Negroes to our planters; and it is supposed that he smite him with a rod, and not with any thing that was likely to give a mortal wound, yet if he died under his hand, he should be punished for his cruelty, at the discretion of the judges, upon consideration of circumstances.
Well, it's not being said that slaves are a bad thing, and you can beat them as long as they're not Jewish, so I guess God is okay by slavery. Also by God's own rules - it's okay to beat a slave senseless, just not to death. Glad we cleared that up.
Other things you listed: Communism isn't inherintly evil, imperialism was actually *fueled* by religious fervor for a very long time, 'corruption'? Corruption of what? Banking fraud can just as easily be done by someone who is religious as it can be as someone who isn't - you're not all saints after all.
How about another list here - and before you freak out at me, I'm not just speaking about Christianity, though quite a lot of them *are*.
Religious evils:
Inquisition Male Circumcision World Trade Center Bombings (after all, there was more then one) Suicide Bombings Decapitation of civilians by religious extremists The Russian Czar government The Incarceration of Galileo Galilei Witch Burning The Catholic Church's support for Nazi Germany The Catholic Church's support of the continuing AIDS epidemic in Africa by decrying condoms Henry the VIII Gay bashing Oppression of women's rights *Slavery* *imperialism* Discrimination against race/religion War against science & reason Missionaries Cannibalism Female circumcision Human sacrifice Animal sacrifice Holy Crusade/war Genocide Rape
Yeah, it's secularists that are evil..
Deuteronomy 20:10-14
As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.
Sounds like murder, rape & slavery are the way to go. I'm insulted that you think following the bible makes you somehow better then anyone.
I'd buy that, though with the qualifier that there must be more discussion on what exactly is meant by moral decay, as I see you've implied in your use of quote marks!
Indeed. Morals are relative to your environment in my opinion.
But I'd also like to point out that there have been many non-secular societies which were decadent too. The Romans for example.
HiddenDistance you have to remember it was written by man and compiled together into the bible by yet again man. The bible is imperfect and biased. It doesn't mean necessarily god is evil or condones violence.
