[necro]How could people believe in god?!

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BlackSonne

86 posts

Nomad

Posted July 2, '09 3:00pm UTC

1. Big Bang creates all matter after a super-condensed atom "explodes"
2. For billions of years earth forms
3. Life develops, although the details on this aren't exact since it was billions of years ago, at least scientists aren't so lazy just to say God created it.
4. Over billions more years evolution happens, leaving us with what we have today, animals, plants, everything.

1. How did that little molecule get there in the first place?
2. The earth made itself? How?
3. Details aren't exact, that's pretty convenient, that way we can't ask them HOW life formed.
4. Evolution was discredited by its creator, that proves it's fake.

1. Little molecule? I think you mean big-bang. It's easy, before big bang there is no space nor time; it's just a complex concept to understand. Imagine a mega black hole: inside black hole, time and space is different. So, a hyper mega black hole, is somekind of big bang: big gravitation and atraction of all matter in universe before it explodes. And what was before that? Another big bang. A chain without limit, same as "god made himself".

2. Billions of years earth forms. Easy. After the explosion, big matter like hydrogen, metals, etc, are gravitating around in an empty space, commonly called, around dark matter.
The one which has more gravitation, takes more density, and with more density inside himself and energy, it starts to burn: that's how our sun was made.

By the same way earth was made: just taking lot of matter, collision, etc, condensating in one point, and gravitatin around that sun. If you know, earth has it's own center burning. The life and other process, come after.

3. Life develops, yep: there are lots of theories about how life started.

Like: life became from an asteroid, or like life started with DRA nor DNA , etc..

The most popular says, in earth, there was good energy, and lots of minerals in a kind of high density liquid. After a chemical reaction, very little complex form started. Evolution did rest after billions years. Maybe there is a god, maybe not, but could you travel in time and tell me please? All theories, but scientist ones are logical.

4. Creator? What the heck-- Evolution means the most addapted to where they life, and genetical changes, make him survive: which makes, his-her dna survives, and the next son have the same adaptations as parents, which gives him more chance to survive.

There is no creator. Just "be strong and most prepared to their nature will survive, prevail, have sons, your sons will be strong too, and maybe there is a genetical mutation=more evolution, or maybe devolution, which will make him die"

No-creator, just Darwin,

Good luck science

[quote]    1. Big Bang creates all matter after a super-condensed atom "explodes"\r\n    2. For billions of years earth forms\r\n    3. Life develops, although the details on this aren't exact since it was billions of years ago, at least scientists aren't so lazy just to say God created it.\r\n    4. Over billions more years evolution happens, leaving us with what we have today, animals, plants, everything.\r\n\r\n1. How did that little molecule get there in the first place?\r\n2. The earth made itself? How?\r\n3. Details aren't exact, that's pretty convenient, that way we can't ask them HOW life formed.\r\n4. Evolution was discredited by its creator, that proves it's fake.\r\n[/quote]\r\n\r\n\r\n1. Little molecule? I think you mean big-bang. It's easy, before big bang there is no space nor time; it's just a complex concept to understand. Imagine a mega black hole: inside black hole, time and space is different. So, a hyper mega black hole, is somekind of big bang: big gravitation and atraction of all matter in universe before it explodes. And what was before that? Another big bang. A chain without limit, same as "god made himself".\r\n\r\n2. Billions of years earth forms. Easy. After the explosion, big matter like hydrogen, metals, etc, are gravitating around in an empty space, commonly called, around dark matter.\r\nThe one which has more gravitation, takes more density, and with more density inside himself and energy, it starts to burn: that's how our sun was made.\r\n\r\nBy the same way earth was made: just taking lot of matter, collision, etc, condensating in one point, and gravitatin around that sun. If you know, earth has it's own center burning. The life and other process, come after.\r\n\r\n\r\n3. Life develops, yep: there are lots of theories about how life started.\r\n\r\nLike: life became from an asteroid, or like life started with DRA nor DNA , etc..\r\n\r\nThe most popular says, in earth, there was good energy, and lots of minerals in a kind of high density liquid. After a chemical reaction, very little complex form started. Evolution did rest after billions years. Maybe there is a god, maybe not, but could you travel in time and tell me please? All theories, but scientist ones are logical.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n4. Creator? What the heck-- Evolution means the most addapted to where they life, and genetical changes, make him survive: which makes, his-her dna survives, and the next son have the same adaptations as parents, which gives him more chance to survive.\r\n\r\n\r\nThere is no creator. Just "be strong and most prepared to their nature will survive, prevail, have sons, your sons will be strong too, and maybe there is a genetical mutation=more evolution, or maybe devolution, which will make him die"\r\n\r\nNo-creator, just Darwin,\r\n\r\nGood luck science

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Kipdon

2,169 posts

Peasant

Posted July 2, '09 3:06pm UTC

Darwin is who I was talking about.

1. You didn't tell me how the atom got there.
2. There was no explosion.
3. The theory of evolution was proven false by Charles Darwin.
4. Said above.

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Mike412

332 posts

Nomad

Posted July 2, '09 3:11pm UTC

1. How did that little molecule get there in the first place?

Possibly a cycle involving the big crunch/big bang theory's, where all matter condenses to a single point that folds into itself until its unable to contain it, created the big bang which expands the matter, which eventually goes back into the big crunch.

However, how did God get here in the first place? Where did he come from?

2. The earth made itself? How?

Its not a living organism, don't paint it to be in order to try and make your position seem superior.

A material with some form of gravitational mass pulled in other materials which condensed around the central material, forming a spherical planet over billions of years.

3. Details aren't exact, that's pretty convenient, that way we can't ask them HOW life formed.[i]

How convenient Christianity's details, which by the way could be complete bullshit since you seem to have an Omnipotent being on your side doing whatever the hell he wants and science doesn't seem to matter, seem to explain everything without any regard for the laws of the universe. Unless you want to take a trip back a few billion years, we can never real know for sure where life came from. While Christianity may have the details you crave, most of those details shouldn't exist by life today

[i]4. Evolution was discredited by its creator, that proves it's fake.

.....
Where is this? Care to site an article with a reliable source?

3. The theory of evolution was proven false by Charles Darwin.
4. Said above.

Again, don't just post random crap like that, which you could have picked up off the nearest bible forum. Get an article or two which backs this claim up.

2. There was no explosion.

The big bang was mislabeled, its called that because the universe seems to be expanding although the explosion talked about may not have happened

[i]1. How did that little molecule get there in the first place?[/i]\r\n\r\nPossibly a cycle involving the big crunch/big bang theory's, where all matter condenses to a single point that folds into itself until its unable to contain it, created the big bang which expands the matter, which eventually goes back into the big crunch.\r\n\r\nHowever, how did God get here in the first place? Where did he come from?\r\n\r\n[i]2. The earth made itself? How?[/i]\r\n\r\nIts not a living organism, don't paint it to be in order to try and make your position seem superior.\r\n\r\nA material with some form of gravitational mass pulled in other materials which condensed around the central material, forming a spherical planet over billions of years.\r\n\r\n[i]3. Details aren't exact, that's pretty convenient, that way we can't ask them HOW life formed.[i]\r\n\r\nHow convenient Christianity's details, which by the way could be complete bullshit since you seem to have an Omnipotent being on your side doing whatever the hell he wants and science doesn't seem to matter, seem to explain everything without any regard for the laws of the universe. Unless you want to take a trip back a few billion years, we can never real know for sure where life came from. While Christianity may have the details you crave, most of those details shouldn't exist by life today\r\n\r\n[i]4. Evolution was discredited by its creator, that proves it's fake.[/i]\r\n\r\n.....\r\nWhere is this? Care to site an article with a reliable source?\r\n\r\n\r\n[i]3. The theory of evolution was proven false by Charles Darwin.\r\n4. Said above.[/i]\r\n\r\nAgain, don't just post random crap like that, which you could have picked up off the nearest bible forum. Get an article or two which backs this claim up.\r\n\r\n[i]2. There was no explosion.[/i]\r\n\r\nThe big bang was mislabeled, its called that because the universe seems to be expanding although the explosion talked about may not have happened

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goumas13

4,752 posts

Grand Duke

Posted July 2, '09 3:44pm UTC

The day we will know how energy was created we will know everything about God and science, cause all laws of physics and chemistry say that energy can only change form and can't be created or destroyed.

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Kipdon

2,169 posts

Peasant

Posted July 2, '09 3:49pm UTC

where all matter condenses to a single point that folds into itself until its unable to contain it

Where did that matter come from?

Again, don't just post random crap like that, which you could have picked up off the nearest bible forum. Get an article or two which backs this claim up.

I didn't pick that up off of any Bible forums. Charles Darwin discredited his theory before he was about to die. If you want, look for Charles Darwin on Wikipedia or something, it might say that, it might not.

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BlackSonne

86 posts

Nomad

Posted July 2, '09 5:12pm UTC

Charles Darwin discredited his theory before he was about to die.

Lol, oh really? Anyway it's demostrated it's true. Do you believe in evolution like Laplace then or what? You're so wrong.

The natural selection and genetical theory of evolution has been proof, in foxes and comparing genomes between old bones and more recent bones. You're saying really crap, do you believe all Wikipedia say? Please go watch some National Geographic or BBC, that'd useful than something I can edit by myself.

Where did that matter come from?

That ask is like ask "where time come from". Don't you understand there are things that go through spacetime rules? If in big bang there is not time before explode, there is not space neither.

Really hard to understand? Same hard as understand there are fast atoms moving and living in 6 different universes at sametime, but both are proved they're true by physic laws.

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bulldogs56

5 posts

Nomad

Posted July 2, '09 5:59pm UTC

How couldn't people belive in God.It has been proven impossibile that the big bang could of happend.By its self, another force would had to of started it.

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Mike412

332 posts

Nomad

Posted July 2, '09 6:25pm UTC

I didn't pick that up off of any Bible forums. Charles Darwin discredited his theory before he was about to die. If you want, look for Charles Darwin on Wikipedia or something, it might say that, it might not.

So...wikipedia. A source that can be changed by anyone, may or may not have this pretty invalid fact? Dang, guess that proved me wrong

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Krizaz

2,399 posts

Nomad

Posted July 2, '09 7:02pm UTC

How couldn't people belive in God.It has been proven impossibile that the big bang could of happend.By its self, another force would had to of started it.

I'm going to direct you to BlackSonne's post.

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Kipdon

2,169 posts

Peasant

Posted July 2, '09 7:08pm UTC

So...wikipedia. A source that can be changed by anyone, may or may not have this pretty invalid fact?

You are blind, that's a fact. I said, Wikipedia or something. I was giving an example and Wikipedia was just off the top of my head.

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Kipdon

2,169 posts

Peasant

Posted July 2, '09 7:21pm UTC

Please go watch some National Geographic or BBC

Yes, two things that man has made. Man, the only species that creates nuclear weapons, comes up with bogus theories to explain things, and struggles with itself all the time in wars. If you have a problem with Wikipedia, you shouldn't really be saying anything about television programs.

Wikipedia = Made and changed by people
Television Programs = Made and changed by people

If I were you, I'd end it at this point. By the way, this whole thing has been like tennis.

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Mike412

332 posts

Nomad

Posted July 2, '09 8:41pm UTC

You are blind, that's a fact. I said, Wikipedia or something. I was giving an example and Wikipedia was just off the top of my head.

If I was blind, I wouldn't have seen the Wikipedia. I attack Wikipedia as a source because in truth, its not a source. Anything can be put up there, while on most other sites that doesn't happen. I'm more likely to trust one where that doesn't happen.

Yes, two things that man has made. Man, the only species that creates nuclear weapons, comes up with bogus theories to explain things

Right, and one of those bogus theory's could be God

If you have a problem with Wikipedia, you shouldn't really be saying anything about television programs.

Whats this obsession with Wikipedia? Besides, he wasn't the one with the problem with Wikipedia, I was, and I didn't say anything about television programs.

Wikipedia = Made and changed by people
Television Programs = Made and changed by people

Wikipedia = Made and changed by anyone who has an internet connection and knows how to type
Television Programs = Made and changed by people who actually have to take responsibility for what they make.

If I were you, I'd end it at this point.

No thanks, the instant people try and tell me to end something, it either means they're running out of things to say, or are getting tired of this. Either way it just makes me want to continue it until some kind of conclusion is reached, not a stalemate.

[i]You are blind, that's a fact. I said, Wikipedia or something. I was giving an example and Wikipedia was just off the top of my head.[/i]\r\n\r\nIf I was blind, I wouldn't have seen the Wikipedia. I attack Wikipedia as a source because in truth, its not a source. Anything can be put up there, while on most other sites that doesn't happen. I'm more likely to trust one where that doesn't happen.\r\n\r\n[i]Yes, two things that man has made. Man, the only species that creates nuclear weapons, comes up with bogus theories to explain things[/i]\r\n\r\nRight, and one of those bogus theory's could be God\r\n\r\n[i]If you have a problem with Wikipedia, you shouldn't really be saying anything about television programs.[/i]\r\n\r\nWhats this obsession with Wikipedia? Besides, he wasn't the one with the problem with Wikipedia, I was, and I didn't say anything about television programs.\r\n\r\n[i]Wikipedia = Made and changed by people\r\nTelevision Programs = Made and changed by people[/i]\r\n\r\nWikipedia = Made and changed by anyone who has an internet connection and knows how to type\r\nTelevision Programs = Made and changed by people who actually have to take responsibility for what they make.\r\n\r\n[i]If I were you, I'd end it at this point. [/i]\r\n\r\nNo thanks, the instant people try and tell me to end something, it either means they're running out of things to say, or are getting tired of this. Either way it just makes me want to continue it until some kind of conclusion is reached, not a stalemate.

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LadyTurtleToes

310 posts

Nomad

Posted July 2, '09 9:12pm UTC

Wow just a few hours has put me way behind here...bear with my here...

things like almost instantaneous mood changes during prayer...

Actually that can be explained easily by psychology. One believes pray should change thier mood so it does.

I find it hard to believe that an explosion (or a giant expansion of matter...) could create a relationship between these two creatures so that they can both survive.

The Big Bang Thoery doesn't claim that the Big Bang happened and then everything was finished. Those kind of relationships developed through millions of years of evolution.

How did everything get on earth? Answer truthfully.

Everything didn't just appear on Earth. There are no scientific thoeries (as far as I'm aware) that claim that it did. The key factor is time. The Big Bang Thoery doesn't say that there was the "explosion" and then the Earth was as we see it today. It's taken millions and billions and probably trillions of years for the universe to develop to its current point. There is no &quotoof, there it is".

The thoery of creation contained in the Bible is flawed because of that point. Science can prove that the world has existed much long than the Bible claims. Personally I think that when people were writing the Bible (yes people wrote it not God) they had to make up a beginning because no one really knew how it all started because recorded history didn't go back that far.

I can still understand how people can believe in God though. As I said before it offers people comfort and a sense of purpose.

Wow just a few hours has put me way behind here...bear with my here...\r\n\r\n[quote]things like almost instantaneous mood changes during prayer...[/quote]\r\n\r\nActually that can be explained easily by psychology. One believes pray should change thier mood so it does.\r\n\r\n[quote]I find it hard to believe that an explosion (or a giant expansion of matter...) could create a relationship between these two creatures so that they can both survive.[/quote]\r\n\r\nThe Big Bang Thoery doesn't claim that the Big Bang happened and then everything was finished. Those kind of relationships developed through millions of years of evolution.\r\n \r\n[quote]How did everything get on earth? Answer truthfully.[/quote] \r\n\r\nEverything didn't just appear on Earth. There are no scientific thoeries (as far as I'm aware) that claim that it did. The key factor is time. The Big Bang Thoery doesn't say that there was the "explosion" and then the Earth was as we see it today. It's taken millions and billions and probably trillions of years for the universe to develop to its current point. There is no "poof, there it is".\r\n\r\nThe thoery of creation contained in the Bible is flawed because of that point. Science can prove that the world has existed much long than the Bible claims. Personally I think that when people were writing the Bible (yes people wrote it not God) they had to make up a beginning because no one really knew how it all started because recorded history didn't go back that far.\r\n\r\nI can still understand how people can believe in God though. As I said before it offers people comfort and a sense of purpose.

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Kipdon

2,169 posts

Peasant

Posted July 2, '09 9:12pm UTC

No conclusion will be reached if this keeps up. Different religions are always put against each other and things like this would just be targets for internet/flame wars and mean comments towards others. If no conclusion is reached, stalemate cannot be reached, and both sides want to win, this would go on forever in an endless spiral of indignant speech and flaming. I'm just going to go ahead and quit this thread now, I refuse to agree with your viewpoint on creation but this is just becoming an infinite cycle of hatred.

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HiddenDistance

1,310 posts

Peasant

Posted July 2, '09 10:30pm UTC

So, for example, there is a theory that we do not exist but are actually the holographic projection of light/radiation from the Big Bang (or something like that). Now, this is a theory which is just as credible as the Big Bang Theory.

Just as credible? You have no idea how science really works, do you?

@Kipdon

Your obsession with needing to have all of the answers to the universe *now* is what's crippling your ability to get along with scientific discovery. And by the way.. you're completely wrong with Darwin somehow being not committed to the "On the Origin of Species".

Show your proof. And as for your assertion that the other side is not showing theirs, keep in mind, you're the one with the salacious claim regarding a great scientific mind.

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