Forums → WEPR → [necro] Why you don't believe in God?

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Zep0Q

71 posts

Nomad

Posted August 13, '09 12:58am UTC

Before you comment, please, read everything, I'm sure that after you read, your life will be changed.

In the following sentences I will explain how stupid is to not believe in God, and I'm gonna use logical thinking and science.

Either "Everything came from nothing", like the "big bang" , witch is impossible, because nothing can only make nothing, or "Something always existed and made everything" like God.

God made this world, by this world I mean time, space and matter, so if God made this world, He lives outside of time, space and matter which means He's eternal, omnipresent and all-powerful.

For those of you who say that the big bang made the universe, I have this sentence: Nothing is the cause of it's own existence.
This doesn't apply to God, because if He doesn't lives in time, He didn't had a beginning, He always existed.
If the universe always was then, we could not reach this moment in time, if something is trapped in time, that means it had a beginning.

Every change that happens everywhere in the universe it's more closer to destruction.
Second law of thermodynamics:
The energy available after a chemical reaction is less than that at the beginning of a reaction; energy conversions are not 100% efficient.
The disorder in the universe always increases.
With each change in form, some energy is degraded to a less useful form and given off into the surroundings, usually as low-quality heat.
The Second Law of Thermodynamics is commonly known as the Law of Increased Entropy. While quantity remains the same, the quality of matter/energy deteriorates gradually over time. How so? Usable energy is inevitably used for productivity, growth and repair. In the process, usable energy is converted into unusable energy. Thus, usable energy is irretrievably lost in the form of unusable energy.

If God didn't made life, then how did non-life, became life?
As I said, nothing is the cause of it's own existence, life comes from life, your parents were alive when they made you.

Did you knew that a 2x2 inch capacity full with someone's DNA can sustain 6000000000 times more information then a 140 GB hard drive?
I guess you didn't knew, did evolution made your DNA?
God made your DNA, of course!

What about the monkeys?
If we evolved from them, why they stayed as they are? they took a long coffee break, I guess.

What about the fossils?
The scientists say that it takes millions and billions and zilions of years for living tissue to become a fossil, well here's 2 pictures with a cawboy's leg fossilized, enjoy
1#

2#

After all I have showed you, now I'm gonna say that you should accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour, because He died for our sins and He didn't ask something from us, just to love our brothers and sisters and to believe in Him.
Anyone can ask for forgiveness as long as he or she is not dead, no matter what they did God can forgive them, if they repent from theirs sins and accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.
God is mercyful and just, His justice is not denyed by His mercy and this is the reason why God sent His Son Jesus to pay the price for us.

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."

Before you comment, please, read everything, I'm sure that after you read, your life will be changed.\r\n\r\nIn the following sentences I will explain how stupid is to not believe in God, and I'm gonna use logical thinking and science.\r\n\r\nEither "Everything came from nothing", like the "big bang" , witch is impossible, because nothing can only make nothing, or "Something always existed and made everything" like God.\r\n\r\nGod made this world, by this world I mean time, space and matter, so if God made this world, He lives outside of time, space and matter which means He's eternal, omnipresent and all-powerful.\r\n\r\nFor those of you who say that the big bang made the universe, I have this sentence: Nothing is the cause of it's own existence. \r\nThis doesn't apply to God, because if He doesn't lives in time, He didn't had a beginning, He always existed.\r\nIf the universe always was then, we could not reach this moment in time, if something is trapped in time, that means it had a beginning.\r\n\r\nEvery change that happens everywhere in the universe it's more closer to destruction.\r\nSecond law of thermodynamics:\r\nThe energy available after a chemical reaction is less than that at the beginning of a reaction; energy conversions are not 100% efficient.\r\nThe disorder in the universe always increases.\r\nWith each change in form, some energy is degraded to a less useful form and given off into the surroundings, usually as low-quality heat.\r\nThe Second Law of Thermodynamics is commonly known as the Law of Increased Entropy. While quantity remains the same, the quality of matter/energy deteriorates gradually over time. How so? Usable energy is inevitably used for productivity, growth and repair. In the process, usable energy is converted into unusable energy. Thus, usable energy is irretrievably lost in the form of unusable energy.\r\n\r\nIf God didn't made life, then how did non-life, became life?\r\nAs I said, nothing is the cause of it's own existence, life comes from life, your parents were alive when they made you.\r\n\r\nDid you knew that a 2x2 inch capacity full with someone's DNA can sustain 6000000000 times more information then a 140 GB hard drive?\r\nI guess you didn't knew, did evolution made your DNA?\r\nGod made your DNA, of course!\r\n\r\nWhat about the monkeys?\r\nIf we evolved from them, why they stayed as they are? they took a long coffee break, I guess.\r\n\r\nWhat about the fossils?\r\nThe scientists say that it takes millions and billions and zilions of years for living tissue to become a fossil, well here's 2 pictures with a cawboy's leg fossilized, enjoy :) \r\n1#\r\n[img]http://www.bible.ca/tracks/limestone-cowboy-boot-outside.jpg[/img]\r\n2#\r\n[img]http://www.bible.ca/tracks/limestone-cowboy-boot-inside.jpg[/img]\r\n\r\nAfter all I have showed you, now I'm gonna say that you should accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour, because He died for our sins and He didn't ask something from us, just to love our brothers and sisters and to believe in Him.\r\nAnyone can ask for forgiveness as long as he or she is not dead, no matter what they did God can forgive them, if they repent from theirs sins and accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.\r\nGod is mercyful and just, His justice is not denyed by His mercy and this is the reason why God sent His Son Jesus to pay the price for us.\r\n\r\nJohn 3:16\r\n"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."

881 Replies

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Zomghaxor

12 posts

Nomad

Posted September 7, '09 3:21am UTC

Who wrote all those stories so accurately without ever having seen or heard God?

Religion is the perfect scam especially in earlier times, If a few smart people got together they could create there own religion in such a way that it for example could explain anything that people didn't understand, Protect people, solve problems and love people, But in order for all these great things to happen you would have to build churches and worship your god by praying,Sacrificing and donating to the church,place of worship or a man who is connected to this great being. After you start convincing the stupider people that this religion is real then the people who made this religion start to amass wealth,power and popularity which is what most people strive for in life.

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JamesRaynor

16 posts

Nomad

Posted September 7, '09 5:06am UTC

Because your horrid logic makes me cringe.

/hides

On a more serious note, I can easily walk all over what you said if I wanted too; But first you need to show me that your worth my time.

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ProGenesis

18 posts

Nomad

Posted September 7, '09 3:20pm UTC

In response to Mike412:

That's where all theory's, even God, have a problem. People claim he's always existed, but by our current knowledge of time that's impossible. Everything has to have a beginning, and no one can provide an reasonable theory for how that might have happened.

Actually, that's not quite true. I think this is one of the most potent arguments in favor of some sort of God. See, we can't claim that time has always existed because of modern scientific knowledge and logical arguments, like the one I presented. Since time had a beginning, the universe had a beginning. Everything that began to exist has a cause, so the universe had to have a cause. Christians believe that cause is God. However, one might say that since everything has a cause, God must have a cause. But that statement is false because of the premise. Everything that begins to exist must have a cause, but God didn't begin to exist, therefore does not require a cause. At this point one might object that we've already established that time has a beginning, therefore God must have a beginning. However, time is an aspect of our universe, and God is outside of the universe. God exists outside of time, therefore, he can be self-existent and eternal. But, every other theory that doesn't invoke a Creator that transcends time does have serious problems.

This is only a factor if you believe the bible as a fact. I think that's the #1 barrier between religions. Each side views itself as though its correct, so they use that as facts in arguments. Perhaps the Bible is merely the worlds first great work of fiction, and people placed belief in it for some reason. I'm not saying this happened, I'm just saying its a possibility we have to consider. Think of today's Star Trek fans. Many of them are fanatics, and if they believe Star Trek to be real, and raise their children to believe in Star Trek and so on and so on, eventually a mass following like Christianity would arise. Again, I don't mean to insult Christianity, I'm just saying that we can't accept the Bible as an absolute fact.

Actually, this is relatively firmly established history. The Gospels are the most reliable documents in all of antiquity, for several reasons, and even if we didn't have any of the New Testament, (or the tens of thousands of quotations of it by the early Church Fathers) we would still know quite a few things about Jesus and early Christians. We would know, as one scholar summarizes:

(1) Jesus was from Nazareth;
(2) he lived a wise and virtuous life;
(3) he was crucified in Palestine under Pontius Pilate during the the reign of Tiberius Caesar at Passover time, being considered the Jewish King;
(4)he was believed by his disciples to have been raised from the dead three days later;
(5) his enemies acknowledged that he performed unusual feats they called 'sorcery';
(6) his small band of disciples multiplied rapidly, spreading even as far as Rome;
(7) his disciples denied polytheism, lived moral lives, and worshiped Christ as Divine.

We would also know other details such as that there was a period of darkness and an earthquake at about 33 A.D., that John the Baptist was killed by Herod, that James the brother of Jesus was stoned, and a few other details.

Of course, this is all under the magnificently generous, since we pretended the Gospels and all traces of them did not exist, while, in fact, the New Testament contains the earliest and most reliable documentation of Jesus' life and early Christian beliefs, because of the number of their manuscripts, the early dates they were written at, the embarrassing details the writers would not have included if they were doing anything other than faithfully recording exactly what happened, the corroborative evidence, and the differences in the Gospel accounts the some skeptics called contradictions that would not be there if it was a conspiracy(for which there would be absolutely no motivation, in the first place).

In response to Mike412:\r\n\r\n[quote]That's where all theory's, even God, have a problem. People claim he's always existed, but by our current knowledge of time that's impossible. Everything has to have a beginning, and no one can provide an reasonable theory for how that might have happened.[/quote]\r\n\r\nActually, that's not quite true. I think this is one of the most potent arguments in favor of some sort of God. See, we can't claim that time has always existed because of modern scientific knowledge and logical arguments, like the one I presented. Since time had a beginning, the universe had a beginning. Everything that began to exist has a cause, so the universe had to have a cause. Christians believe that cause is God. However, one might say that since everything has a cause, God must have a cause. But that statement is false because of the premise. Everything that begins to exist must have a cause, but God didn't begin to exist, therefore does not require a cause. At this point one might object that we've already established that time has a beginning, therefore God must have a beginning. However, time is an aspect of our universe, and God is outside of the universe. God exists outside of time, therefore, he can be self-existent and eternal. But, every other theory that doesn't invoke a Creator that transcends time does have serious problems.\r\n\r\n[quote]This is only a factor if you believe the bible as a fact. I think that's the #1 barrier between religions. Each side views itself as though its correct, so they use that as facts in arguments. Perhaps the Bible is merely the worlds first great work of fiction, and people placed belief in it for some reason. I'm not saying this happened, I'm just saying its a possibility we have to consider. Think of today's Star Trek fans. Many of them are fanatics, and if they believe Star Trek to be real, and raise their children to believe in Star Trek and so on and so on, eventually a mass following like Christianity would arise. Again, I don't mean to insult Christianity, I'm just saying that we can't accept the Bible as an absolute fact.[/quote]\r\n\r\nActually, this is relatively firmly established history. The Gospels are the most reliable documents in all of antiquity, for several reasons, and even if we didn't have any of the New Testament, (or the tens of thousands of quotations of it by the early Church Fathers) we would still know quite a few things about Jesus and early Christians. We would know, as one scholar summarizes:\r\n[quote](1) Jesus was from Nazareth;\r\n(2) he lived a wise and virtuous life;\r\n(3) he was crucified in Palestine under Pontius Pilate during the the reign of Tiberius Caesar at Passover time, being considered the Jewish King;\r\n(4)he was believed by his disciples to have been raised from the dead three days later;\r\n(5) his enemies acknowledged that he performed unusual feats they called 'sorcery';\r\n(6) his small band of disciples multiplied rapidly, spreading even as far as Rome;\r\n(7) his disciples denied polytheism, lived moral lives, and worshiped Christ as Divine.[/quote]\r\n\r\nWe would also know other details such as that there was a period of darkness and an earthquake at about 33 A.D., that John the Baptist was killed by Herod, that James the brother of Jesus was stoned, and a few other details.\r\n\r\nOf course, this is all under the magnificently generous, since we pretended the Gospels and all traces of them did not exist, while, in fact, the New Testament contains the earliest and most reliable documentation of Jesus' life and early Christian beliefs, because of the number of their manuscripts, the early dates they were written at, the embarrassing details the writers would not have included if they were doing anything other than faithfully recording exactly what happened, the corroborative evidence, and the differences in the Gospel accounts the some skeptics called contradictions that would not be there if it was a conspiracy(for which there would be absolutely no motivation, in the first place).

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Moabarmorgamer

8,570 posts

Nomad

Posted September 7, '09 3:38pm UTC

I have returned!

Sorry if I offended you, I didn't mean to. I was just saying that it seems like not many people on these forums know the Bible and yet debate it :\\\\
As for the serpent being cursed, if you think about it all animals were "cursed". In Eden they lived peacefully and in harmony. Now they kill, eat, and destroy eachother. So it was just a side product of man's fall, which in effect created the food chain because now that man could die, they had to eat, and what they ate had to eat, etc. And the lack of cutting hair and wine and unclean animals was not what made Samson strong, it was God's power. The other things were just rules, possibly to keep him in line, but I honestly don't know.
How is the Bible, ridiculous? God always existed and created us to love and to love him. Evolution on the other hand says that coincidentally an explosion occured, making planets spin through space until our Solar system was created, and somehow chemicals created a single cell organism, etc. What made the explosion? What designed the very concept of an "explosion"? What made the universe that the explosion occured in? What made the chemicals that created the organism "ancestor"? What made the planets? Not to mention the one planet spinning the "wrong" way, how the planets became gaseous, terrous, etc. and how the organism mutated into an intelligent man.
As I stated before, it takes more faith to believe in evolution than in Creationism.

It's fine Kody, and yeah, I can see how some people comment here and yet haven't read the Bible.
You know the drill.

As for the serpent being cursed, if you think about it all animals were "cursed". In Eden they lived peacefully and in harmony. Now they kill, eat, and destroy eachother. So it was just a side product of man's fall, which in effect created the food chain because now that man could die, they had to eat, and what they ate had to eat, etc. And the lack of cutting hair and wine and unclean animals was not what made Samson strong, it was God's power. The other things were just rules, possibly to keep him in line, but I honestly don't know.

Honestly, none of us know. But here's my take.
A side product of the fall of man was mortality? I was unaware of this. And God made them mortal all because they ate an apple? Now, I get that they disobeyed God's will, but it's not fair that everything should be punished. And God would have known that the animals would suffer due to the fall as well, because he's omniscient, correct?
Genesis 28:"And God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth.'"
I always assumed that he gave them the fish and creatures to be their food and do their bidding, but I could be wrong.

And the lack of cutting hair and wine and unclean animals was not what made Samson strong, it was God's power. The other things were just rules, possibly to keep him in line, but I honestly don't know.

Alright. So not drinking, and not eating unclean stuff, and not cutting hair, that's what Samson did, and because of that God gave him mighty powers? So why are there no Nazirites today? I mean, everyone would want such powers, would they not? Is it that God no longer finds humans worthy? Is it because his power is waning? Is it because none of us can properly abstain from wine, cutting our hair, and eating bad things? I find that rather hard to believe.

How is the Bible, ridiculous? God always existed and created us to love and to love him. Evolution on the other hand says that coincidentally an explosion occured, making planets spin through space until our Solar system was created, and somehow chemicals created a single cell organism, etc. What made the explosion? What designed the very concept of an "explosion"? What made the universe that the explosion occured in? What made the chemicals that created the organism "ancestor"? What made the planets? Not to mention the one planet spinning the "wrong" way, how the planets became gaseous, terrous, etc. and how the organism mutated into an intelligent man.

Well, let's see. There's an all-powerful being that made everything, and wants us to love him even though he's never really proven his existence, and punishes us for something that our great great great great great great great great great great grandparents did. That's the Bible, from my viewpoint.
No, evolution does not say that! You're confusing evolution with the Big Bang theory. I personally think the Big Bang is retarded, but I agree with evolution. Abiogenesis is the creation of living things from inanimate matter. From there, evolution. But here's a very rudimentary rule of science; Matter can not be created nor destroyed. I'll just ignore the rest because I don't believe in the big bang, and therefore don't need to argue with you about it.

As I stated before, it takes more faith to believe in evolution than in Creationism.

Really, now? And is that because we have scientific facts, and you have nothing but a book with no stable sources, that is probably unreliable?

I have returned!\r\n\r\n[quote]Sorry if I offended you, I didn't mean to. I was just saying that it seems like not many people on these forums know the Bible and yet debate it :\\\\\r\nAs for the serpent being cursed, if you think about it all animals were "cursed". In Eden they lived peacefully and in harmony. Now they kill, eat, and destroy eachother. So it was just a side product of man's fall, which in effect created the food chain because now that man could die, they had to eat, and what they ate had to eat, etc. And the lack of cutting hair and wine and unclean animals was not what made Samson strong, it was God's power. The other things were just rules, possibly to keep him in line, but I honestly don't know.\r\nHow is the Bible, ridiculous? God always existed and created us to love and to love him. Evolution on the other hand says that coincidentally an explosion occured, making planets spin through space until our Solar system was created, and somehow chemicals created a single cell organism, etc. What made the explosion? What designed the very concept of an "explosion"? What made the universe that the explosion occured in? What made the chemicals that created the organism "ancestor"? What made the planets? Not to mention the one planet spinning the "wrong" way, how the planets became gaseous, terrous, etc. and how the organism mutated into an intelligent man.\r\nAs I stated before, it takes more faith to believe in evolution than in Creationism.[/quote]\r\n\r\nIt's fine Kody, and yeah, I can see how some people comment here and yet haven't read the Bible. \r\nYou know the drill.\r\n[quote]As for the serpent being cursed, if you think about it all animals were "cursed". In Eden they lived peacefully and in harmony. Now they kill, eat, and destroy eachother. So it was just a side product of man's fall, which in effect created the food chain because now that man could die, they had to eat, and what they ate had to eat, etc. And the lack of cutting hair and wine and unclean animals was not what made Samson strong, it was God's power. The other things were just rules, possibly to keep him in line, but I honestly don't know.[/quote]\r\nHonestly, none of us know. But here's my take.\r\nA side product of the fall of man was mortality? I was unaware of this. And God made them mortal all because they ate an apple? Now, I get that they disobeyed God's will, but it's not fair that everything should be punished. And God would have known that the animals would suffer due to the fall as well, because he's omniscient, correct? \r\nGenesis 28:"And God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth.'"\r\nI always assumed that he gave them the fish and creatures to be their food and do their bidding, but I could be wrong. \r\n[quote]And the lack of cutting hair and wine and unclean animals was not what made Samson strong, it was God's power. The other things were just rules, possibly to keep him in line, but I honestly don't know.[/quote]\r\nAlright. So not drinking, and not eating unclean stuff, and not cutting hair, that's what Samson did, and because of that God gave him mighty powers? So why are there no Nazirites today? I mean, everyone would want such powers, would they not? Is it that God no longer finds humans worthy? Is it because his power is waning? Is it because none of us can properly abstain from wine, cutting our hair, and eating bad things? I find that rather hard to believe.\r\n[quote]How is the Bible, ridiculous? God always existed and created us to love and to love him. Evolution on the other hand says that coincidentally an explosion occured, making planets spin through space until our Solar system was created, and somehow chemicals created a single cell organism, etc. What made the explosion? What designed the very concept of an "explosion"? What made the universe that the explosion occured in? What made the chemicals that created the organism "ancestor"? What made the planets? Not to mention the one planet spinning the "wrong" way, how the planets became gaseous, terrous, etc. and how the organism mutated into an intelligent man.[/quote]\r\nWell, let's see. There's an all-powerful being that made everything, and wants us to love him even though he's never really proven his existence, and punishes us for something that our great great great great great great great great great great grandparents did. That's the Bible, from my viewpoint. \r\nNo, evolution does not say that! You're confusing evolution with the Big Bang theory. I personally think the Big Bang is retarded, but I agree with evolution. Abiogenesis is the creation of living things from inanimate matter. From there, evolution. But here's a very rudimentary rule of science; Matter can not be created nor destroyed. I'll just ignore the rest because I don't believe in the big bang, and therefore don't need to argue with you about it.\r\n[quote]As I stated before, it takes more faith to believe in evolution than in Creationism.[/quote]\r\nReally, now? And is that because we have scientific facts, and you have nothing but a book with no stable sources, that is probably unreliable?

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Kody

60 posts

Nomad

Posted September 7, '09 5:03pm UTC

A side product of the fall of man was mortality? I was unaware of this. And God made them mortal all because they ate an apple? Now, I get that they disobeyed God's will, but it's not fair that everything should be punished. And God would have known that the animals would suffer due to the fall as well, because he's omniscient, correct?

Genesis chapter 2:
16.And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden;
17.but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die." Animals were companions to humans, and I'm guessing God also placed them there because He knew the humans would need something to eat when they fell. Look from a Christians viewpoint for a few seconds: Animals have no soul, thus they don't really suffer. They just have instinct, and their instinct is to kill and eat.

Alright. So not drinking, and not eating unclean stuff, and not cutting hair, that's what Samson did, and because of that God gave him mighty powers?

Pretty much. Think of the fruit in Eden. God had one simple rule. Just one. Don't eat the fruit. Samson had just a few simple rules, ones that he actually followed most of his life. And yet he broke them. God gave him the rules so that Samson could prove his faith to God by doing His instruction, no matter how small.

So why are there no Nazirites today?

Why are there no Romans today?

I mean, everyone would want such powers, would they not?

The abilities were given to each member of the Nazirite race, or to everyone who followed those rules, just Samson.

Is it that God no longer finds humans worthy?

Humans have never been worthy of anything, we all deserve death, but we have luxury, science, and God, which is more than we can ask for, let alone superpowers.

Is it because his power is waning?

See above.

There's an all-powerful being that made everything, and wants us to love him even though he's never really proven his existence,

That's the test. If He did miracles left and right and came storming through earth showing His power, everyone would believe in Him, but then what's the point? Of course everyone will believe, it's like going up to someone and saying "the sky is blue." Well, of course it is. But if we follow God based on faith, then it means something to Him. Besides, all of creation is proof alone of God.

I personally think the Big Bang is retarded

Sorry, my mistake. So how did the inanimate matter get there?

Abiogenesis is the creation of living things from inanimate matter.

Like I said, where did the matter come from? And when in known history has chemicals simply being together been able to make something as complex and advanced as life?

Natural selection can only operate on the genetic material already present in a population of organisms. It cannot create new genetic information and subsequently change one kind of organism into another. Institute for Creation Research

Really, now? And is that because we have scientific facts, and you have nothing but a book with no stable sources, that is probably unreliable?

Show me the scientific facts. What do we know about evolution? That there were monkey bones and human bones that looked similar? That scientists can design what primitive humans looked like from a pig's tooth?. Whereas we have evidence that completely explains man's origins, and has been recorded by not just the Bible. What about the Gilgamesh Epic?
How about evidence of Noah's ark on Ararat?

[quote]A side product of the fall of man was mortality? I was unaware of this. And God made them mortal all because they ate an apple? Now, I get that they disobeyed God's will, but it's not fair that everything should be punished. And God would have known that the animals would suffer due to the fall as well, because he's omniscient, correct?[/quote] Genesis chapter 2:\r\n16.And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden;\r\n17.but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die." Animals were companions to humans, and I'm guessing God also placed them there because He knew the humans would need something to eat when they fell. Look from a Christians viewpoint for a few seconds: Animals have no soul, thus they don't really suffer. They just have instinct, and their instinct is to kill and eat.\r\n[quote]Alright. So not drinking, and not eating unclean stuff, and not cutting hair, that's what Samson did, and because of that God gave him mighty powers?[/quote] Pretty much. Think of the fruit in Eden. God had one simple rule. Just one. Don't eat the fruit. Samson had just a few simple rules, ones that he actually followed most of his life. And yet he broke them. God gave him the rules so that Samson could prove his faith to God by doing His instruction, no matter how small.\r\n[quote]So why are there no Nazirites today?[/quote] Why are there no Romans today?\r\n[quote]I mean, everyone would want such powers, would they not?[/quote] The abilities were given to each member of the Nazirite race, or to everyone who followed those rules, just Samson.\r\n[quote]Is it that God no longer finds humans worthy?[/quote] Humans have never been worthy of anything, we all deserve death, but we have luxury, science, and God, which is more than we can ask for, let alone superpowers.\r\n[quote]Is it because his power is waning?[/quote] See above.\r\n[quote]There's an all-powerful being that made everything, and wants us to love him even though he's never really proven his existence,[/quote] That's the test. If He did miracles left and right and came storming through earth showing His power, everyone would believe in Him, but then what's the point? Of course everyone will believe, it's like going up to someone and saying "the sky is blue." Well, of course it is. But if we follow God based on faith, then it means something to Him. Besides, all of creation is proof alone of God.\r\n[quote]I personally think the Big Bang is retarded[/quote]\r\nSorry, my mistake. So how did the inanimate matter get there?\r\n[quote]Abiogenesis is the creation of living things from inanimate matter. [/quote] Like I said, where did the matter come from? And when in known history has chemicals simply being together been able to make something as complex and advanced as life?[quote]Natural selection can only operate on the genetic material already present in a population of organisms. It cannot create new genetic information and subsequently change one kind of organism into another. [i][url=http://www.icr.org/]Institute for Creation Research[/url][/i][/quote]\r\n[quote]Really, now? And is that because we have scientific facts, and you have nothing but a book with no stable sources, that is probably unreliable?[/quote] Show me the scientific facts. What do we know about evolution? That there were monkey bones and human bones that looked similar? That scientists can design what primitive humans looked like from a [url=http://www.evolutiondeceit.com/chapter9.php]pig's tooth?[/url]. Whereas we have evidence that completely explains man's origins, and has been recorded by not just the Bible. What about the [i][url=http://ancienthistory.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ/Ya&sdn=ancienthistory&cdn=education&tm=5&gps=411_458_1313_613&f=10&tt=14&bt=0&bts=1&zu=http%3A//www.piney.com/Gilgamesh.html]Gilgamesh Epic[/url][/i]?\r\nHow about evidence of [url=http://www.biblediscoveries.com/content/view/17/34/]Noah's ark[/url] on Ararat?

offline

Kody

60 posts

Nomad

Posted September 7, '09 5:05pm UTC

The abilities were not given to each member of the Nazirite race, or to everyone who followed those rules, just Samson.

Sorry about that.

offline

St1cKyH4nd

114 posts

Nomad

Posted September 7, '09 5:53pm UTC

we need some one big in psychics and astronomy

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Mike412

332 posts

Nomad

Posted September 7, '09 6:55pm UTC

Great, I just lost 20 minutes of work because I clicked on your Bible links. Starting over again....

and I'm guessing God also placed them there because He knew the humans would need something to eat when they fell. Look from a Christians viewpoint for a few seconds: Animals have no soul, thus they don't really suffer. They just have instinct, and their instinct is to kill and eat.

This is one of the most arrogant things I have seen on this site to date, and there are some pretty damn arrogant things said here every day. Pretty much animals are here only to eat? What about animals that are too small to eat, like microbes? What about animals that are poisonous to eat, like rain-forest frogs? Saying that animals are really only a food source is classic Human superiority

God gave him the rules so that Samson could prove his faith to God by doing His instruction, no matter how small.

Again, why is faith so important to him? If he creates all life, than shouldn't he be able to control who's faithful and who's not? Why would faith even matter in the first place?

Why are there no Romans today?

Poor leadership, constant Barbarian raids, military defeats...in short, everything a super-human race favored by the gods should easily be able to avoid.

[/quote]Humans have never been worthy of anything, we all deserve death, but we have luxury, science, and God, which is more than we can ask for, let alone superpowers.

Alright, no. Don't be incredibly arrogant and say that animals are nothing more than a food source, then act all meak and say we aren't worthy of anything. Pick one or the other.
On the other hand, we have starvation, poverty, disease, war....kinda a little overbalanced

Again. Why is faith so important to this omnipotent being? According to Christianity, God rely's on humans to do everything for him...convert others, have faith in him, defend themselves, and asks them to grasp at straws to prove his existence. If you can give me a satisfactory reason why God is in such desperate need of faith yet doesn't show himself to get that faith, I'll let this point go. Plus, all of creation is only proof of God if you like the simplest explanation of things and the easiest to understand

And when in known history has chemicals simply being together been able to make something as complex and advanced as life?

Back to the life is too complex argument. This is where evolution comes in. Its possible that the simplest forms of life on a microscopic level developed from chemicals that reacted to an environment. Isn't that really all we are? A compilation of materials that works together for survival. We place ourselves on such a high pedestal that we can't even comprehend that maybe we're actually fairly simplistic when you get down to it. List off the requirements for what you think life means

That there were monkey bones and human bones that looked similar

That our DNA is 98% the same as some other animals....

That scientists can design what primitive humans looked like from a pig's tooth?.

A bible site...how...reliable....

How about evidence of Noah's ark on Ararat?[quote]

I'll address this one since its put together much better than the other site, and actually does have some interesting claims. First of all though, I'd like to point out that you equate Evolution to thinking Monkey and Human bones look the same. Which is pretty much what happened here. Something that looks a little like a boat on the surface of a mountain suddenly becomes Noahs Ark....
Anyways, first of all, I'm not buying the claim that all those animals were on a 500 foot ship for a year and yet all of them managed to make it out without starvation or eating each other. Second, I'm not buying that the millions of species we see today made it onto the ark. There are millions of different insects alone, yet all of those somehow made it onto the boat and lasted a year? Third, if the land was covered in water, what about all the plants? There is no mention of those being on board the ship, yet here we have millions more diverse species. Fourth, the thing about Noah owning a Zoo? Really? Five, the claim that Iron Rivets were used on the Ark, while the Iron Age began in the Near East (Middle east) several thousand years later. I could go on like this, but I've already done this once and had to do it all over again....

Great, I just lost 20 minutes of work because I clicked on your Bible links. Starting over again....\r\n\r\n[quote]and I'm guessing God also placed them there because He knew the humans would need something to eat when they fell. Look from a Christians viewpoint for a few seconds: Animals have no soul, thus they don't really suffer. They just have instinct, and their instinct is to kill and eat. [/quote]\r\n\r\nThis is one of the most arrogant things I have seen on this site to date, and there are some pretty damn arrogant things said here every day. Pretty much animals are here only to eat? What about animals that are too small to eat, like microbes? What about animals that are poisonous to eat, like rain-forest frogs? Saying that animals are really only a food source is classic Human superiority\r\n\r\n[quote]God gave him the rules so that Samson could prove his faith to God by doing His instruction, no matter how small. [/quote]\r\n\r\nAgain, why is faith so important to him? If he creates all life, than shouldn't he be able to control who's faithful and who's not? Why would faith even matter in the first place?\r\n\r\n[quote]Why are there no Romans today? [/quote]\r\n\r\nPoor leadership, constant Barbarian raids, military defeats...in short, everything a super-human race favored by the gods should easily be able to avoid.\r\n\r\n[/quote]Humans have never been worthy of anything, we all deserve death, but we have luxury, science, and God, which is more than we can ask for, let alone superpowers. [quote]\r\n\r\nAlright, no. Don't be incredibly arrogant and say that animals are nothing more than a food source, then act all meak and say we aren't worthy of anything. Pick one or the other.\r\nOn the other hand, we have starvation, poverty, disease, war....kinda a little overbalanced\r\n\r\n[/quote]That's the test. If He did miracles left and right and came storming through earth showing His power, everyone would believe in Him, but then what's the point? Of course everyone will believe, it's like going up to someone and saying "the sky is blue." Well, of course it is. But if we follow God based on faith, then it means something to Him. Besides, all of creation is proof alone of God.[quote]\r\n\r\nAgain. Why is faith so important to this omnipotent being? According to Christianity, God rely's on humans to do everything for him...convert others, have faith in him, defend themselves, and asks them to grasp at straws to prove his existence. If you can give me a satisfactory reason why God is in such desperate need of faith yet doesn't show himself to get that faith, I'll let this point go. Plus, all of creation is only proof of God if you like the simplest explanation of things and the easiest to understand\r\n\r\n[/quote]And when in known history has chemicals simply being together been able to make something as complex and advanced as life?[quote]\r\n\r\nBack to the life is too complex argument. This is where evolution comes in. Its possible that the simplest forms of life on a microscopic level developed from chemicals that reacted to an environment. Isn't that really all we are? A compilation of materials that works together for survival. We place ourselves on such a high pedestal that we can't even comprehend that maybe we're actually fairly simplistic when you get down to it. List off the requirements for what you think life means \r\n\r\n[/quote]That there were monkey bones and human bones that looked similar[quote]\r\n\r\nThat our DNA is 98% the same as some other animals....\r\n\r\n[/quote]That scientists can design what primitive humans looked like from a pig's tooth?.[quote]\r\n\r\nA bible site...how...reliable....\r\n\r\n[/quote]How about evidence of Noah's ark on Ararat?[quote]\r\n\r\nI'll address this one since its put together much better than the other site, and actually does have some interesting claims. First of all though, I'd like to point out that you equate Evolution to thinking Monkey and Human bones look the same. Which is pretty much what happened here. Something that looks a little like a boat on the surface of a mountain suddenly becomes Noahs Ark....\r\nAnyways, first of all, I'm not buying the claim that all those animals were on a 500 foot ship for a year and yet all of them managed to make it out without starvation or eating each other. Second, I'm not buying that the millions of species we see today made it onto the ark. There are millions of different insects alone, yet all of those somehow made it onto the boat and lasted a year? Third, if the land was covered in water, what about all the plants? There is no mention of those being on board the ship, yet here we have millions more diverse species. Fourth, the thing about Noah owning a Zoo? Really? Five, the claim that Iron Rivets were used on the Ark, while the Iron Age began in the Near East (Middle east) several thousand years later. I could go on like this, but I've already done this once and had to do it all over again....

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thisisnotanalt

9,821 posts

Shepherd

Posted September 9, '09 2:28am UTC

Show me some scientific evidence for evolution.

You're reverting to trying to force the burden of proof on me when *you* happen to have it. That's either an utter failure, and indicator that you have no argument left, or that you're lazy.

I'm not arguing for evolution, s I don't need to back it up. You need to provide evidence to support your claim, or your main point will continue to disintegrate. Unless you can think of an amazing argument to support your main point (your first counterpoint did nothing to defend your main point . . . .) you've lost this debate.

I'm back, btw. I was on vacation - it was loads of fun. ^_^

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BigP08

1,455 posts

Shepherd

Posted September 9, '09 3:09am UTC

Again, why is faith so important to him? If he creates all life, than shouldn't he be able to control who's faithful and who's not? Why would faith even matter in the first place?

Mike, I know you weren't replying to me, but I figured I could share a few thoughts on this. I think of God as a Father, and what does my blood father want? For me to listen to him, respect him, love him, etc. But does he want to force me to, without understanding why? Of course not.
Faith, obviously, is different than love, but with proof of a god that would punish us for evil, we end up doing the what but without a single why. If we do good works without *knowing* he exists, even if some of us believe, we truly understand why we should be good, not just how to be good.
In case you're wondering, I'm one of those Christians that doesn't think belief in God is necessary to get to heaven. I think faith in doing the right thing is more important than religious faith, if that makes sense.

Anyway, goodnight everyone. School night

[quote]Again, why is faith so important to him? If he creates all life, than shouldn't he be able to control who's faithful and who's not? Why would faith even matter in the first place?[/quote]\r\nMike, I know you weren't replying to me, but I figured I could share a few thoughts on this. I think of God as a Father, and what does my blood father want? For me to listen to him, respect him, love him, etc. But does he want to force me to, without understanding why? Of course not.\r\nFaith, obviously, is different than love, but with proof of a god that would punish us for evil, we end up doing the what but without a single why. If we do good works without *knowing* he exists, even if some of us believe, we truly understand why we should be good, not just how to be good.\r\nIn case you're wondering, I'm one of those Christians that doesn't think belief in God is necessary to get to heaven. I think faith in doing the right thing is more important than religious faith, if that makes sense.\r\n\r\nAnyway, goodnight everyone. School night :(

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MageGrayWolf

9,462 posts

Farmer

Posted September 9, '09 5:43am UTC

Again, why is faith so important to him? If he creates all life, than shouldn't he be able to control who's faithful and who's not? Why would faith even matter in the first place?

You second question is easily answered with the free will argument. Your first question however does have some validity. I think a better way to put it though is, why is blind faith so important to god?

Using BigP08's example of loving respecting etc. your father. It would be like expecting a child to love someone who is never around never calls, writes, or visits. All the child has are a collection of sketchy stories to go on as to who and where this person is. Then that child is expected to have respect, love for this person and threw those sketchy stories listen to this person. If the child doesn't he is punished. Would this still be considered reasonable?

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joewelke25

30 posts

Nomad

Posted September 9, '09 9:41am UTC

Why don't I believe in God? Because I don't believe in things that have no physical evidence. I believe in science, Not faith. Its common sense to not believe the biggest bullcrap story ever written.

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Highfire

3,025 posts

Nomad

Posted September 9, '09 8:18pm UTC

Well said Joewelke25!

- H

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thisisnotanalt

9,821 posts

Shepherd

Posted September 9, '09 8:27pm UTC

and can easily back up my beliefs

. . .with more beliefs. There isn't really much scientific stuff to back up Christianity - it's about faith, not correctness, and I think a lot of Christians have forgotten that and are questing for a scientific proof of Christianity which won't ever surface.

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Graham

8,051 posts

Nomad

Posted September 9, '09 8:33pm UTC

i'm agnostic partly because i don't like the idea of a monotheism it seems too much like a dictator, but also because i know a sense of an active spirituality is good for you. the latter proven by placebos

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