ForumsWEPRHealth care debate

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njarvis10
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njarvis10
110 posts
Nomad

What do you think of it?I think it will bankrupt our government and do nothing for the people.It's just a crazy idea that will most likely fail.Obama said we could keep our same plans but some people accualy can't, I cant!!!This whole thing is stupid.

  • 21 Replies
BenTheBozer
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BenTheBozer
815 posts
Nomad

Just take a look at Australia's health care system ours is fantastic but America is a lot more larger but a national health care system would make things easier.

Veobahamut
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Veobahamut
887 posts
Nomad

How will it bankrupt your government, what economic education do you have? If it's such a crazy then my grand parents in England would be dead but there not. your stupid stop posting.

HEADHUNTER58
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HEADHUNTER58
370 posts
Nomad

America bankrupt? yeah right, they sell arms of the black market and only invaded the middel east for the oil, there is much more money around than people think

rafterman
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rafterman
600 posts
Nomad

You (America) could probably fund it with the money you spend policing the middle east.

VoteSocialist
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VoteSocialist
950 posts
Nomad

Just remember that most of the health care will remain private, only a small part of it is public. The new health care plan will make sure that private companies can't reject anymore medical claims from unemployed citizens. It's basically universal health care.

dieath
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dieath
230 posts
Nomad

the country is in dept a few trillion so yeah, got enough money for this-.-

Theres alot of problems with health care, i've been listening too doctors who are completly outraged since they are gonna be cutting doctors pay and making them work more, then theres the fact that the first while of this hospitals will be overwhelmed by all the people wanting free healthcare.

another thing, most people cant even argue about this since its a 1300 page bill, i mean ron pauls newest bill is one page long.

veobahamut your grandparent certainly don't have many health problems, in UK they only give seniors a certain ammount of healthcare and no more, same thing that they will do in america.

its sick how they created the health care problem by inflating the currency and then as a solution too all these people who cant afford healthcare beacause of the problem they created they are making an even worse system that will temporarally correct youre problems.

SuperzMcShort
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SuperzMcShort
325 posts
Nomad

Theres alot of problems with health care, i've been listening too doctors who are completly outraged since they are gonna be cutting doctors pay and making them work more


Doctors are paid through a kind of contract based system that is set up by the hospital that they work at. Any change to their working hours/wages is an issue that they can address directly with their respective hospitals rather then the insurance companies that just sign the paper work that the hospitals send them and pay the money.

then theres the fact that the first while of this hospitals will be overwhelmed by all the people wanting free healthcare.


Possibly for the first year or so. However, the increased care from family physicians and increased access to required medication will mean that there will be significantly fewer trips to the emergency room, and fewer cases of difficult to treat, progressed, and expensive health issues.

veobahamut your grandparent certainly don't have many health problems, in UK they only give seniors a certain ammount of healthcare and no more, same thing that they will do in america.


I'm familiar with the issues in the UK system. And the worst that I've seen, is that when there's a terminally ill patient they often won't approve experimental treatments that cost millions of dollars and at best will extend their life by a couple of months. To be entirely fair I've also heard of private insurers doing the exact same thing.

its sick how they created the health care problem by inflating the currency


Inflating the currency has absolutely nothing to do with the health care problem. Have you ever taken a basic economics course?
Veobahamut
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Veobahamut
887 posts
Nomad

veobahamut your grandparent certainly don't have many health problems, in UK they only give seniors a certain ammount of healthcare and no more, same thing that they will do in america


Several eye operations, she had a stroke, high blood pressure and diabetes and they send a nurse over to do checkups the NHS take care of my grandma very well.
dieath
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dieath
230 posts
Nomad

Inflating the currency has absolutely nothing to do with the health care problem. Have you ever taken a basic economics course?


i nearly took this as an insult

The poor are now in more numbers now than before and they cant afford the healthcare, beacause of inflation, the dollar is worth 4 cents of what it was worth 100 years ago, a problem caused by the federal reserve pumping in more and more money into the economy.
if people still made 5 dollars an hour and it was the norm(actually i think that was alot) this wouldnt even be an issue since everyone who had job wouldnt need free health care. if you knew how much inflation has hurt the public you'd understand how it has everything too do with the healthcare crisis.

Several eye operations, she had a stroke, high blood pressure and diabetes and they send a nurse over to do checkups the NHS take care of my grandma very well.


i think i was full of myself for a second, but i remember reading that in britain people only have a certain ammount of money given too them for healthcare, and it decreases the older you get.

Doctors are paid through a kind of contract based system that is set up by the hospital that they work at. Any change to their working hours/wages is an issue that they can address directly with their respective hospitals rather then the insurance companies that just sign the paper work that the hospitals send them and pay the money.


the changes that are made will need too be adressed too the government, doctors will need too work alot more since all these people will be coming for checkups all the time, they are gonna get less money in this bill beacause of the enourmous cost of the healthcare

id like too mention i heard this from doctors being interviewed
Veobahamut
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Veobahamut
887 posts
Nomad

i think i was full of myself for a second, but i remember reading that in britain people only have a certain ammount of money given too them for healthcare, and it decreases the older you get.


Not true my Grandma gets it for free she doesn't pay and she's on pension, the elderly here do get taken care of.
SuperzMcShort
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SuperzMcShort
325 posts
Nomad

if you knew how much inflation has hurt the public you'd understand how it has everything too do with the healthcare crisis.


This is what I meant by the economics concept. Inflation only matters if individual elements aren't in close connection with one another. Otherwise relative buying power of individuals doesn't change and the inflation has a net impact of nothing.

Example, if right now it cost John $1 to a unit of happiness, and he makes $10 a day he can buy 10 units of happiness and be a pretty happy guy. Now let's suppose next week there's a lot of inflation and the amount of currency in the economy goes up by a factor of ten before it reaches equilibrium. Now it costs John $10 to buy one unit of happiness, but he makes $100, so he can still buy 10 units. His relative buying power hasn't changed, and he still has the same quality of life.

The health care issue in this country right now has absolutely nothing to do with inflation, there are a lot of factors that do make health care less affordable, the rising demand due to the aging baby boomers, the stress placed on the facilities due to the lack of alternatives to the uninsured, and the lack of trained professionals in the medical field relative to the client base all contribute to the relatively high cost of health care in the US. The currency inflation however, has not.

the changes that are made will need too be adressed too the government, doctors will need too work alot more since all these people will be coming for checkups all the time, they are gonna get less money in this bill beacause of the enourmous cost of the healthcare


There will be more stress on clinical physicians, and less on ER rooms. Some doctors will see a heavier workload until increased compensation in their respective fields draws more personal. The doctors however are not going to be seeing less money. If anything doctors as a whole will be making more money. The people in ER rooms will not be treating uninsured patients and losing out on the revenue there, and clinical physicians will have more work, and be paid accordingly.
Yakooza99K
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Yakooza99K
588 posts
Nomad

The poor are now in more numbers now than before and they cant afford the healthcare, beacause of inflation, the dollar is worth 4 cents of what it was worth 100 years ago, a problem caused by the federal reserve pumping in more and more money into the economy.
if people still made 5 dollars an hour and it was the norm(actually i think that was alot) this wouldnt even be an issue since everyone who had job wouldnt need free health care. if you knew how much inflation has hurt the public you'd understand how it has everything too do with the healthcare crisis.


This isn't a Ron Paul thread. No one cares about the fed reserve, we're talking about healthcare.

i think i was full of myself for a second, but i remember reading that in britain people only have a certain ammount of money given too them for healthcare, and it decreases the older you get.


Wrong, go learn about the NHS

dieath, you don't know anything about the health care bill. Why don't you read the thing instead of listening to Faux news.

Obama wants to offer a government run health program, that will compete with private insurers. And he wants to regulate the private companies.

Thousands of Americans die each year of preventable causes because their insurers cancel their plans when they need it most, and they raise the rates to astronomical levels.

The biggest cause of bankruptcy in the United States are medical bills. Look at other countries where the health care is government run, like France and Germany and Canada. No one is complaining about the German or French systems.

The only reason people don't like the health care bill is because they havn't read it, or they listen to conservatives. The pharmaceutical companies and insurance giants spend hundreds of millions each year in order to lobby for their interest. It happened to Clinton's bill.

And then rich conservatives like Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck also oppose it. They have affordable health care. They don't know what the poor and sick in this country have to go through to get any care at all.

The entire republican party doesn't care about the sick and poor. They just wanna slam Obama for being liberal. Sarah Palin is complaining of "death panels" Where in the 1300 page bill do you see anything about death panels? Nowhere.
dieath
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dieath
230 posts
Nomad

dieath, you don't know anything about the health care bill. Why don't you read the thing instead of listening to Faux news.


i dont like being acused of watching fox news or any other news programs, i read independant articles on the internet, the news is run by the government, so it always promotes government,

This isn't a Ron Paul thread. No one cares about the fed reserve, we're talking about healthcare.


i was talking about inflation, inflation ahs too do with the fed

Thousands of Americans die each year of preventable causes because their insurers cancel their plans when they need it most, and they raise the rates to astronomical levels.


i already know about this but in reality a government run health program will be worse

The biggest cause of bankruptcy in the United States are medical bills. Look at other countries where the health care is government run, like France and Germany and Canada. No one is complaining about the German or French systems.


im from canada and i freaking hate socialism, taking away from the rich is theft even if its too pay for the poor, id much rather be capitalist and pay less taxes

Obama wants to offer a government run health program, that will compete with private insurers. And he wants to regulate the private companies.


thats called fascim

And then rich conservatives like Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck also oppose it. They have affordable health care. They don't know what the poor and sick in this country have to go through to get any care at all.


if there was no inflation and people could actually pay for most things that wouldnt be the case

The entire republican party doesn't care about the sick and poor. They just wanna slam Obama for being liberal. Sarah Palin is complaining of "death panels" Where in the 1300 page bill do you see anything about death panels? Nowhere.


death panels are made up and palin is a retard, but they will be putting a price on the american life, if you exeed that price youre not worth enough too keep alive. also who the hell would read the 1300 pages, the bill itself is a joke, when they introduced a 1300 page bill everyone should have told them too fuck off and make it shorter, the bill i would support at this moment has one page and is pretty complex.

This is what I meant by the economics concept. Inflation only matters if individual elements aren't in close connection with one another. Otherwise relative buying power of individuals doesn't change and the inflation has a net impact of nothing.

Example, if right now it cost John $1 to a unit of happiness, and he makes $10 a day he can buy 10 units of happiness and be a pretty happy guy. Now let's suppose next week there's a lot of inflation and the amount of currency in the economy goes up by a factor of ten before it reaches equilibrium. Now it costs John $10 to buy one unit of happiness, but he makes $100, so he can still buy 10 units. His relative buying power hasn't changed, and he still has the same quality of life.

The health care issue in this country right now has absolutely nothing to do with inflation, there are a lot of factors that do make health care less affordable, the rising demand due to the aging baby boomers, the stress placed on the facilities due to the lack of alternatives to the uninsured, and the lack of trained professionals in the medical field relative to the client base all contribute to the relatively high cost of health care in the US. The currency inflation however, has not.


inflation hasnt lowered the buying power of americans? wth are you talking about, the government is suppose too regulate the currency too keep it at apropriate levels, if the dept rises quicker than the population the peoples buying power will lower, witch has been happening.

why was this not an issue until now? well for one the media never covered it, so everyone who watches the media too know what too do/buy never heard about health control.
the governments quest for evergrowing power needs universal healthcare so they can control who gets what.

heres a doctor congressman talking about healthcare,
here
dieath
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dieath
230 posts
Nomad

o yeah forgot too say, im done with this debate for today

SuperzMcShort
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SuperzMcShort
325 posts
Nomad

inflation hasnt lowered the buying power of americans? wth are you talking about, the government is suppose too regulate the currency too keep it at apropriate levels, if the dept rises quicker than the population the peoples buying power will lower, witch has been happening.


Over the last hundred years the buying power of Americans has INCREASED by a lot, which is reflected in the massive increase in quality of life. Inflation isn't a measure of buying power, and more often then not inflation doesn't have any detrimental effects.

why was this not an issue until now? well for one the media never covered it, so everyone who watches the media too know what too do/buy never heard about health control.


It's been an issue for a long time. I know I've talked about it for the last decade at least. Just because popular media doesn't talk about something doesn't mean that it's not an issue.

heres a doctor congressman talking about healthcare,


Ron Paul makes a lot of good points and brings up a lot of things that are important to consider. However in this case his own personal biases really prevent him from seeing the issue and workable solutions. When he says things like "nobody went without" in reference to how health care used to be dealt with you can tell pretty clearly he didn't consider persons of lower economic status. His ideas to provide tax credits to pay for health expenses also would fail to assist lower income persons. A $15,000 tax credit given to you after paying $15,000 out of pocket isn't going to help anyone who makes $40,000 a year and pays $5,000 in taxes as that would still amount to a $10,000 out of pocket expense.

The issue at hand is whether everyone has a right to live as long as possible, because in the end that's what health care does. It extends the lives of individuals through preventative medicine. Saying that health care should be run in an entirely free market manor results isn't saying we should let the poor die, but the end result is exactly the same.
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