So, since my last competition was pretty much a discussion, I'll now close that and move over to this general colony discussion (the others are all specific)
TALK ABOUT ANYTHING RELATED TO COLONY (and beef burgers)
but this takes way more micro, therefore less time. but more important, it gives me (the opponent)time.
It does buy you time however it does the same for me. It buys me time also. Furthermore, due to your selection of your third building, i have plenty of time. The issue with ops is that your restrained by its huge resource cost. Due to your armory you now have an economy equivalent to a capitalist meaning when you hit 80 money, ill hit 80 money. As a result we both should have our big guns areound the same time
even if you manage to destroy the mod. you have lost because the huge amount of resource and time spent on destroying it.
"Matter cannot be created nor destroyed"- first law of thermodynamics
mod phantoms cost 35 influence. This means its about equivalent to 18 marines. each marine does about 20 damage to air. So thats about 360 damage. I believe a mod phantom has around 350. So basically i lose as much resources as you. However i am a capitalist, i have resources to waste due to the 20% faster income. Another thing you need to factor in is the influence i gain. On average i should be gaining around 2 influence every 5 seconds do to field presense, making all the attacking endeavors worth it. Lets assume my micro is bad that day and i waste 5 marines. 10 Mp will come back in 10 seconds. As for resource loss we are about equal, only that i take field advantage
but if i am winning and tdh is not about to come back i will build a forge and with a huge amount of energy, i would roman rush. and because of the fact i have tryed to gain as much influence as possible would back this up with 2 prides, 1 team and one mod phant. this would normaly win me ythe match and if i was pinned i would just wait a bit and make a missile before all that witch again would normaly secure me a win.
This whole piece of text relies on the fact your already winning. My micro and tdh's micro is quite different. Ops third would still counter forge 3rd simply due to special forces. By the time you get ops 4th i would have hosp for a long time with medics swarming the field. However, with the proper micro this situation will never occur
i was pinned i would just wait a bit and make a missile before all that witch again would normaly secure me a win.
Remember to think of the situation in both sides. If you wait you build synergy. If you wait that means Im forced to wait, causing me to build synergy. The only difference between your situation and my situation is that i have the pin. Through logic its easier to kill a small army than a big one. Furthermore, once i have the pin i can just merely copy the units you would use in the pinbreak. Using the logic of big vs small my army would still win.
but if his army looked threatening to romans i would make a hosp a go for loads of meds, switching my arm to man and upgrading my bank.
I dont see the purpose of medicating pinned romans. I can see that you can go for saint but due to the money needed for sanctum i can easily get a sphinx
unless tdh build an arm and then makes tier 3, if im fast enough will normaly win me the match.
Again i dont see the purpose of him reaching tier 3. Hover tanks hardly counters your build nor does BQs.
but, you have overlooked the most killing stratergy to this. dual build (bank, post, forge) this is deadly to mine build and when i upgrade leaves me with
Yes that build counters your build however that leaves me very weak against bank ops.
draco, were on earth do you find time to write such long posts...
It only took 30 minutes. It takes so long for games to get started nowadays
Draco, if you have time, can you give me feedback on the plan (on my profile). I am not telling you to comment because it is a long list, and way to much for a normal human being to take in at one time.
You just defeated your own argument. If your waiting for resources that means you have none to little resources. You cannot make tier 2 units with under 20 resources nor can you make enough tier 1 units to scare away my own tier one and influence units.
When I say waiting for resources, I mean waiting for money (sorry for the vagueness).
At this time I usually have a good amount of energy resources and about 20 cash(once my armory makes another round of plan financial support) so I can make a some scouts and romans. I also can make a phantom if I choose to or need to, but that would mean longer waiting for tier 3 mechanics terminal.
However, my strategy depends on how fast the other team can get units out with enough resource backup. Sometimes I even can get a solar grid out and make forge my last building but this is usually against mediocre players. Sometimes, the enemy full-out rushes at me and I'll have to make forge right after my bank, which backs me up a bit on resource gain until I can get an armory.
1.Communist Manpower and Energy cost are 25% off.- go for it.
2.Capitalist resource gain decrease from 5/3/2/0 to 5/2/2/0 or change to 5/2/2/1.- again go for it, but i would rather the first one.
3.Monarchy resource gain inrease from 3/2/3/3 to 3/3/3/3.- im not sure if this would work and might make mon op. but i dont think it will cause of no big advantage. try it . 4.Fascists resource gain change from 4/2/4/0 to 3/3/4/0. - no. i dont think this would help. i belive fac needs a small increase. maybe 3/3/4/1 or 4/3/3/0 or even at extreme 3/2/5/0.
5.~Max Influence decrease from 200 to 150. Field of influence adjusted from (+1= x>0) (+2 = x>25) (+3 = x>50) to (+1 = x>0) (+2 = x>35). - i dont like it but it might work.
6.Field of influence adjusted from (+1= x>0) (+2 = x>25) (+3 = x>50) to (+1 = x>0) (+2 = x>35).- no. dont like it and dont understand what it would help..
7.Central Base health increase from 5000 to 7500. Central Base anti-ground weapon splash decrease from 7 to 5. Central Base anti-air weapon splash decrease from 28 to 20. - yes, partly just to stop noob rushers
8.~Marine cost increase from 0/2/0/0 to 0/3/0/0. Marine anti-ground weapon range increase from 260 to 275. Marine anti-air weapon damage decrease from 37 to 34.- yes maybe even 0/4/0/0, lol or 1/2/0/0.
9.Chronite Tank cost increase from 5/10/0/0 to 5/9/3/0. im not sure if that is the correct increase. but the energy thing is a good idea.
10.Chronite Tank health decrease from 310 to 305.- good choice
11. Chronite Tank weapon reload increase from 120 to 175. - no 150 max. this would make chron tanks more op than before.
12. Chronite Tank weapon range increase from 360 to 375 - no. yos you are making cronite tanks too powerful.
13. Chronite Tank weapon splash decrease from 43 to 34. - again. it might work, but we need to test it.
14.Chronite Tank weapon damage decrease from 70 to 65. - liking it.
15. ~Grodtiz health increase from 340 to 395. ~Grodtiz speed increase from 0.8 to 1. - it needs more. but we dont want to make a glad. what about 415 health and 1.2 speed?
16.~Hover Tank weapon range decrease from 390 to 385.- do it, but it also needs a damage nerf if you ask me.
17.~Black Queen speed decrease from 1.4 to 0.8. ~Black Queen anti-ground weapon splash decrease from 85 to 43. Black Queen anti-air weapon damage decrease from 140 to 120. - yes do it all. well balanced...
ill comment on the rest later but all in all i think the game would defiantly be much better with those improvements.
Inflict you got point 11 wrong. He proposes increasing RELOAD TIME of tanks by almost 50%. Along with the other nerfs, this basically reduces the damage per second of tanks by around half, if not more.
The effect is that post is now useless, forge will dominate, which we all know is what Yos wanted anyway. Without going into the other random nerfs the game imbalances would be as follows:
1. Fascist 2. Monarchy 3. Cap 4. Commi
And there would be massive gaps between each of the governments.
Actually, I just realised if you want to cut unit costs by 25%, communists would probably be way op. Imagine building hover tanks at 7 manpower less and 7 energy less at a rate of 2 per second. That's 14 resources saved every 4 seconds. That is an equivalent increase in resource gain of about 2.5 times the original amount while building these tanks. With other units, it wil be slightly less, but on average we're talking about 50-75% more resources. Commi will be the new cap, but even more op with more field domination with an extra resource gain from killing units--and this comm WILL kill a lot of units.
I haven't read through the list very much, but by just the above points it really seems like you haven't thought these things through very well.
Actually, I just realised if you want to cut unit costs by 25%, communists would probably be way op. Imagine building hover tanks at 7 manpower less and 7 energy less at a rate of 2 per second. That's 14 resources saved every 4 seconds. That is an equivalent increase in resource gain of about 2.5 times the original amount while building these tanks. With other units, it wil be slightly less, but on average we're talking about 50-75% more resources. Commi will be the new cap, but even more op with more field domination with an extra resource gain from killing units--and this comm WILL kill a lot of units.
yes but low money would mean slow tech up.
Inflict you got point 11 wrong. He proposes increasing RELOAD TIME of tanks by almost 50%. Along with the other nerfs, this basically reduces the damage per second of tanks by around half, if not more.
no i understood fine... this would make cronite tank op. as you said reload time = +50%. basically meaning per second it do almost 50% more damage!
5.~Max Influence decrease from 200 to 150. Field of influence adjusted from (+1= x>0) (+2 = x>25) (+3 = x>50) to (+1 = x>0) (+2 = x>35). - i dont like it but it might work.
These are to prevent super early influ-rush timings like the ones we have right now. I am not against influence units, but I had to use influence units in all the games I beat MBA, who also used influence unit. This example creates the illusion of balance because the common interpretation is "influence units counter influence units, that sounds balanced." The key factor that those people forget is what should counter influence units. This creates the designer vs player argument within the community, which is the worst thing possible. The common assumption of a player suggestion ideas to update the game is the player is doing it for self-gain, but honestly who works on a list of ideas for a year and a half for self gain. I have gone away from the main post. -.-'
8.~Marine cost increase from 0/2/0/0 to 0/3/0/0. Marine anti-ground weapon range increase from 260 to 275. Marine anti-air weapon damage decrease from 37 to 34.- yes maybe even 0/4/0/0, lol or 1/2/0/0.
The range increase is to make take Marine stronger against the Base, but this also effects their usefulness when facing Romans. This is where the cost increase comes into play, to compensate for the range increase. The damage decrease is to help Mod. Phantoms, by allowing them to take one more rocket.
9.Chronite Tank cost increase from 5/10/0/0 to 5/9/3/0. im not sure if that is the correct increase. but the energy thing is a good idea. 10.Chronite Tank health decrease from 310 to 305.- good choice 11. Chronite Tank weapon reload increase from 120 to 175. - no 150 max. this would make chron tanks more op than before. 12. Chronite Tank weapon range increase from 360 to 375 - no. yos you are making cronite tanks too powerful. 13. Chronite Tank weapon splash decrease from 43 to 34. - again. it might work, but we need to test it. 14.Chronite Tank weapon damage decrease from 70 to 65. - liking it.
I think you don't understand what I'm doing. MBA doesn't either. Chronite Tanks are really strong right now. Like really strong, but only in the lower tiers. The range increase is to help them out in the later stages of the game. The reload time increase is a nerf not a buff.
120 - 30 = 4 175 / 30 = 5.8(3)
This is to force players to player smarter while making Romans and Marines stronger against it. The life decrease really doesn't do much, but allow a few units to kill it 3 shot less at most. The cost is to prevent players from dual teching and relying on Tanks too much. The Splash decrease is to prevent the Splash bug mostly and weaken the Tank.
15. ~Grodtiz health increase from 340 to 395. ~Grodtiz speed increase from 0.8 to 1. - it needs more. but we dont want to make a glad. what about 415 health and 1.2 speed?
These changes will work. I am 100% sure that they will work. Also, there is no such thing as 1.2 speed.
16.~Hover Tank weapon range decrease from 390 to 385.- do it, but it also needs a damage nerf if you ask me.
This nerf is to make players more cautious when throwing them into the fray to fight Chronite Tanks. Hovers still can kill the base without being hit, but now with only 3 pixel of error.
I am not explaining the Government changes right now because even I don't feel strongly about them.
so I can make a some scouts and romans. I also can make a phantom if I choose to or need to, but that would mean longer waiting for tier 3 mechanics terminal.
Like i said 20 resources isnt enough to scare off influence units or my own tier 1 units. Forge has a very noticeable weakness against ops. Your best hope against a monarchy player is doing a forge rush with influence support. Not a tier 3 build
Draco, look on your profile. I explained the overall goal for the plan.
hmm.... ill support that goal... The more i start thinking about the changes the more it makes sense.... However what i believe is that if we apply all those changes at one time then something is certain to be OP. We need to make small steady changes one at a time
I don't want a Colony v6.1 to happen again. I am all for better beta testing for games, but Colony is past the point where a beta phase will help save it. All we can do as a community is wait for the right time, 5-12 days after the release of the latest Sinjid 3 patch, to contact Krin. Why 5-12 day? To give the community time to report bugs, and Krin to patch the game. Think of the release of Sinjid 3 as the final preparations for a mission. That is when I will be doing what I'm doing now, but with more of the Colony community.
