Now while some people thing that communism would fail after a certain point... what if... you reformed it into a more socialistic society?
In theory communism is best, we all know that. But in real life a less stringent form of goverment like socialism would be far better as we know not everyone will work equally like machines. Although socialism is similar, in many ways it is also different. It prevents the oppresive dictators from forming and more rights to the people. I believe that capitalism is about as sad as it gets. The Soviet Union would of lasted much longer had they increase consumer goods and decrease military might. See the way to a great nation is not through death and war. It is through creating a country that is so great, safe, and powerful. That people from other places would say.
Hey, would i want to fight them, they've done no harm. In fact i would rather go and fight for them than here.
It is sort of a unique form of socialism, keeping the basics, but working on the details, show others that you are strong, happy, and proud of your country. That if it came down to it. Would you give your life to go fight for your motherland? You, by your own mind, would immediately say Yes.
And to one day, have peace, by achieveing a global socialistic state. It have a end to wars, to focus on reserch in space, and work on technology for quicker food production, cheap and clean fuel sources.
To have the Reformed USSR on the globe and nothing else in my dream. For everyone to be equal and have a fair chance at life, if they want to be an astronaut, they will be. Not have some school deny him or her that dream because they can't afford the ridulose price of college.
For education and healthcare to be cheap or free. To help their neighbor in times of need. This is my dream, and i'm ready to make it happen.
[i]The Revolution is coming... The Question is... Are You Ready...?
It's not that simple though. Practically speaking, how would the general populace of the world be persuaded into believing that greed and capitalism are essentially bad things, let alone the massive material costs of creating such a utopia?
The only better USSR is one that doesn't exist. The fact is, socialism or communism for that fact is an impossible system, just as a utopia is impossible. It sounds nice, it would be nice, but the fact remains, it cannot be. It simply can't.
Unless you create a brainwasher that makes everyone mentally retarded and perfect with no wills. It's the only way it can happen.
It lost? Where is the success of capitalism in South East Asia, Africa, and Latin America? Where is the success of pure capitalism in the 19th century when child labor was needed for a family to survive? Socialism, in my opinion, is a human right. How is capitalism winning in 2009 where we see ourselves in America under yet another recession, forced to use my family's taxes to bail out failed CEOs? All humans are social creatures and a capable of sharing, why should we promote greed under a capitalist dogma? Arenât Christians supposed to strive for sharing, being selfless, and by extension trusting people, forgiving them, and being honest?
Also, we aren't arguing for a Utopia written by Thomas More, we are talking about a better economic system that will promote fairness and equality; a system that allows a minimal standard of living for all and more freedom and power to the workers.
That's so true! No wonder communism was such a success... Let's be serious, people just aren't like that. You say it's possible, which it is, but the world just doesn't happen that way.
Can you please direct me to a system that was Marxist and failed because the people within the system were barbarians?
It lost? Where is the success of capitalism in South East Asia, Africa, and Latin America? Where is the success of pure capitalism in the 19th century when child labor was needed for a family to survive? Socialism, in my opinion, is a human right. How is capitalism winning in 2009 where we see ourselves in America under yet another recession, forced to use my family's taxes to bail out failed CEOs? All humans are social creatures and a capable of sharing, why should we promote greed under a capitalist dogma? Aren't Christians supposed to strive for sharing, being selfless, and by extension trusting people, forgiving them, and being honest?
Did I say capitalism wins? No, I didn't. I said socialism fails, which it does. I'm not going to work for three quarters of a century so I can pay my drug addicted lazy motherfucker neighbor. Sorry for the language, but that's extremely true.
Until you create a brainwashing device like I said, that makes everyone work until they die, with no free will or intelligence.
And who said I was Christian? I never was, nor will I ever be. I dislike religion -.-
Did I say capitalism wins? No, I didn't. I said socialism fails, which it does. I'm not going to work for three quarters of a century so I can pay my drug addicted lazy mother****er neighbor. Sorry for the language, but that's extremely true.
You don't support socialism, you don't support capitalism, you don't support communism...you must be an anarchist. Also, you capitalists don't seem to have a problem with giving our money away to failed CEOs every time their business is falling apart.
And for the record, socialism and capitalism are economic stances not political ones.
And did you know that when the Bolsheviks came to power for the first time they did a lot of good things that the czar thought were just wrong? The old-school Bolsheviks removed Russia from a world war, ended persecution to ethnic minorities, made huge land reforms in the interests of peasants, made large endeavors to increase Russia's low literacy rate, ended oppression of religious minorities, decriminalized homosexuality, and they took care of the homeless by organizing soup kitchens and communal restaurants; and it worked! You know what screwed everything up? Lenin's terrible health in 1923 and 1924 mixed with the Russian civil war which caused terrible damage to the entire economy. When Stalin took over and condemned every democratic reform Lenin and his close followers like Trotsky fought so hard for, initiated "socialism in one country", and purged political rivals, the image of democratic socialism and Marxism was ruined. Stalin contradicted almost every political stance (not economic) your average socialist or Marxist would advocate. He was condemned by commies and socialist everywhere as a result in the 1920s and 30s. Ever wonder why Khrushchev had a beef with Stalinism?
I can't believe this is the only interesting thread that I can debate on >>.<< I'm using my one post that gets me to prince on it >>.<<
You don't support socialism, you don't support capitalism, you don't support communism...you must be an anarchist. Also, you capitalists don't seem to have a problem with giving our money away to failed CEOs every time their business is falling apart.
Anarchist? Maybe, maybe not. I'm more on the middle end of capitalism and anarchy. Anrchalcapitalism of sorts. And I have a huge problem with Obama throwing money away. He fails to realize we're 5 trillion in debt. We don't have the money, and we never will.
And for the record, socialism and capitalism are economic stances not political ones.
They both manifest into political stances, as everything does.
And did you know that when the Bolsheviks came to power for the first time they did a lot of good things that the czar thought were just wrong? The old-school Bolsheviks removed Russia from a world war, ended persecution to ethnic minorities, made huge land reforms in the interests of peasants, made large endeavors to increase Russia's low literacy rate, ended oppression of religious minorities, decriminalized homosexuality, and they took care of the homeless by organizing soup kitchens and communal restaurants; and it worked! You know what screwed everything up? Lenin's terrible health in 1923 and 1924 mixed with the Russian civil war which caused terrible damage to the entire economy. When Stalin took over and condemned every democratic reform Lenin and his close followers like Trotsky fought so hard for, initiated "socialism in one country", and purged political rivals, the image of democratic socialism and Marxism was ruined. Stalin contradicted almost every political stance (not economic) your average socialist or Marxist would advocate. He was condemned by commies and socialist everywhere as a result in the 1920s and 30s. Ever wonder why Khrushchev had a beef with Stalinism?
Wall of words hurts mah head >>.<<
No matter.
Oh really? And how long do you think that would've lasted?
Not very long. 100 years tops. Then someone like Stalin takes over.
Capitalism is free of that. Why? Because no one person can take power without getting knocked down. There is no real control, and that creates super-competition, which makes it impossible for anyone to get a true upper hand, without having that hand cut off. It has its' ups and downs, but it also can manifest into something near indestructible by everything but the very competition that creates its' utter superiority.
Socialism is free of all of that. As a result, it has no ups or downs. It's always in the middle, never getting better, never worse (until a Stalinist comes along).
That makes it a tragically useless system, because no true advancement can happen. Humans need a cattle prod to do anything, and socialism doesn't give them the shock they need. If anything, it creates more poverty by not letting people want to better themselves, and it makes them happy where they are.
Wow talking about being a baby... Proves you won't fight to the end for your side of the argument.
You failed to see that I was directing the statement to Drace. Did you know that Drace was supporting communism rather than socialism? In ways, it's as if you failed to read the debate in itself. I also suggest you look up the word chauvinism. Drace is a chauvinist, a person who will argue that 2 + 2 is 10 if it supports communism. How do you have a fun debate with a person like that?
What's sad is that you know very little about socialism. Everything you said about socialism could be said about communism. You failed to present the main difference between the two!
It's harder to debate with morons or mommy's little chauvinists than people with true intelligence on their topic. At least a person of genuine intelligence would understand the flaws in their own system. If a person believes that their government has no flaws, they are truly blind and debating with them is impossible. That person will argue words that don't follow science, human nature, the laws of physics. A person who thinks any form of government is perfect is a moron.
Communism won't work. You have to be a moron to think it will. I honestly think socialism could work, or some variation of socialism. Unlike you, I have accepted the flaws. I won't live my life fighting for a cause that I know may not work. I listen to reason.
I'm still in this debate. I'm just not debating with Drace about communism. He ignores all logic that suggests communism might fail.
That's so true! No wonder communism was such a success...
Let's be serious, people just aren't like that. You say it's possible, which it is, but the world just doesn't happen that way.
Communism was never implanted. This had nothing to do with people being honest.
People cant run their own society? Perhaps through town meetings or what not? They did so in villages.
People are territorial. Territories will be made. What politics are there in high school? There is no government in high school, but students still form their own groups.
That is not even an adjective that can describe humans. And what an analogy... Comparing how a society runs to how high schoolers pick their friends. It runs on completely different parameters.
The world isn't heaven anywhere. Oh, also, communinism never worked. At least capitalism lasted.
Communism was never implanted. Jesus... And capitalism lasted on exploitation and imperialism
There is no single moment in history when man kind was classless beyond the age of machinery except in areas of poverty.
Oh, ok. I'm sorry. You were right. Communism does work. We should all live in dirt and fight day to day life looking for water.
And because communist ideals did not exist all that time means we should never fight for it? So yeah lets not improve on anything because its always been bad and will always be.
In areas of poverty people today are kept alive by living on $1-$3 a day.
If your going to ramble on "fixing capitalist government", at least offer an example, you chauvinist.
Drace, you're a chauvinist. I am done debating with you.
You post 1 liners to my paragraphs of text and I'm a god dam chauvinist. Id like to ask you to define communism even after this worthless debate and see if you even payed attention to my points.
Oh and of course my page and a half essay was all like "COMMUNISM RULES. PEOPLE ARE COOL AND THEY ARE NICE. PEOPLE LIKE TO SHARE WEALTH AND BE NICE TO EACH OTHER"
F off. You have not made a single THEORETICAL point.
Try reading the post first insteed of just posting a link, and stop posting that link on evrey Communism or related topics. (Your Thinking of Stalinism, overlook Stalinism and you'll see the truth).
You failed to see that I was directing the statement to Drace. Did you know that Drace was supporting communism rather than socialism? In ways, it's as if you failed to read the debate in itself. I also suggest you look up the word chauvinism. Drace is a chauvinist, a person who will argue that 2 + 2 is 10 if it supports communism. How do you have a fun debate with a person like that?
I love debating with chauvinists, it rationalizes being a chauvinist! Ignore him and debate with TSL3 and I if it bothers you. And I do very much disagree with much of Drace's debating, all systems have bugs that need fixing.
Capitalism is free of that. Why? Because no one person can take power without getting knocked down. There is no real control, and that creates super-competition, which makes it impossible for anyone to get a true upper hand, without having that hand cut off. It has its' ups and downs, but it also can manifest into something near indestructible by everything but the very competition that creates its' utter superiority. Socialism is free of all of that. As a result, it has no ups or downs. It's always in the middle, never getting better, never worse (until a Stalinist comes along).
Actually everything has ups and downs, under pure socialism you can't be a billionaire but you can't be homeless either; under pure capitalism you can be a billionaire but you can also be homeless. And the beef I have with capitalism is that there are more penniless people than there are billionaires.
There is little economic or political freedoms under capitalism and history's "Communist States", under capitalism you have corporate lobbyists and special interest groups that can get whatever they want done. CEOs control who gets a job, how many jobs are given, layoffs, where the business leads itself, and what amount of money a worker can earn. In "communist" states, you have a repressive bureaucracy controlling means of production that exerts its rule over a slave population of workers. Party officials and military officers basically get more freedoms and privileges than the rest of the population under authoritarian socialism ("communist" states).
Drace is a chauvinist, a person who will argue that 2 + 2 is 10 if it supports communism. How do you have a fun debate with a person like that?
Your reasoning throughout all this time has been you having the mentality that "Your wrong, Im right." and making the statment that "Capitalism is awesome. You lose, lul"
It's harder to debate with morons or mommy's little chauvinists than people with true intelligence on their topic. At least a person of genuine intelligence would understand the flaws in their own system. If a person believes that their government has no flaws, they are truly blind and debating with them is impossible. That person will argue words that don't follow science, human nature, the laws of physics. A person who thinks any form of government is perfect is a moron.
You have failed to even understand what communism is, and Im suppose to start talking about its flaws? Communism is a revolutionary movement towards a stateless and classless society. The flaws? Umm ok sure, there will be no competition. Happy?
It's harder to debate with morons or mommy's little chauvinists than people with true intelligence on their topic. At least a person of genuine intelligence would understand the flaws in their own system. If a person believes that their government has no flaws, they are truly blind and debating with them is impossible. That person will argue words that don't follow science, human nature, the laws of physics. A person who thinks any form of government is perfect is a moron.
A paragraph of statements made with no single support. Know what I mean now. How am I suppose to argue against that. I can make the exact opposite of that statement and it would be just as logical. "A person who thinks any form of government is not perfect is a moron"
A POSTED A WHOLE F'IN 1 AND A HALF PAGE ARGUMENT ON MY THOUGHTS ON THE HUMAN NATURE AND HOW IT WOULD BE COMPATIBLE WITH COMMUNIST SOCIETY. YOU COMPLETELY IGNORED AND BASHED ME SAYING I DONT USE LOGIC.
All your arguments have been pre assumed statements of your own ramblings.
You started bashing me from the first response you made at me, and you have the guts to use big words to describe me something that your guilty of.
For some reason you think because you accepted the flaws of capitalism, it justifies any statement you make?
