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Forums → WEPR → The Ukranian Genocide (Holodomor)

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Drace
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Drace
3,880 posts
Nomad

The Holodomor was when the Soviet Government under Iosif Ill'ych Stalin decided to wipe out the Ukranian population. They accomplished this by engineering a massive famine for which they deliberatley did not give any aid for.

http://images.absoluteastronomy.com/images/encyclopediaimages/h/ho/holodomor2.jpg

Records from the Ukranian SSR show that the population of Ukraine dropped by about 5 MILLION between 1931 and 1934.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_qC77umzH3gM/SSqAhAtogZI/AAAAAAAACwU/MDX-AV3TVAw/s400/HolodomorCemetery.jpg

To this day, the Russian government denies any wrong doing while many nations, including the US, say otherwise.

Yet there still exists many deniers of the Holodomor, who routinely question the number of deaths, the perpetrators, and even the existence of the genocide.

What do you guys think?

  • 26 Replies
Screwu
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Screwu
1 posts
Nomad

Obvious troll is obvious

This was just a Nazi lie by Hitler...

Drace
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Drace
3,880 posts
Nomad

Oh wow, you registered a minute ago and this is your first post.

Making unverified claims.

balerion07
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balerion07
2,837 posts
Peasant

I wonder how Russia likes its population decreasing the way it is.

balerion07
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balerion07
2,837 posts
Peasant

Lol what an awful way to join a forum.

Drace
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Drace
3,880 posts
Nomad

I admit, Im just trollin!

Drace
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Drace
3,880 posts
Nomad

Just kidding, I'm for realz.

thelistman
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thelistman
1,416 posts
Shepherd

Wow, of all people, I expected Drace to deny any wrongdoing.

The fact of the matter is that Stalin hated Ukrainians. He especially hated the "kulaks" or the wealthy land-owning peasants in Ukraine. Some historians estimate 7-8 million starved to death in one year. Now, there was a serious lack of rain that year, so it's not like every death can be blamed on the Soviet authorities. But without their intervention in Ukraine, the famine would have been much smaller. Maybe only a couple hundred thousand die, as opposed to millions.

Drace
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Drace
3,880 posts
Nomad

Wow, of all people, I expected Drace to deny any wrongdoing.


My cousin got on my account and played a joke, lol. That wasn't me.

He especially hated the "kulaks" or the wealthy land-owning peasants in Ukraine.


Sure, to make collectivization work the liquidation of the kulaks as a class had to take place.

Interestingly though, the kulaks played a role in the famine.

As retaliation to the collectivization method, the kulaks refused to pick their crop and dealt a blow to the agriculture.

`Their [kulak] opposition took the initial form of slaughtering their cattle and horses in preference to having them collectivized. The result was a grievous blow to Soviet agriculture, for most of the cattle and horses were owned by the kulaks. Between 1928 and 1933 the number of horses in the USSR declined from almost 30,000,000 to less than 15,000,000; of horned cattle from 70,000,000 (including 31,000,0000 cows) to 38,000,000 (including 20,000,000 cows); of sheep and goats from 147,000,000 to 50,000,000; and of hogs from 20,000,000 to 12,000,000. Soviet rural economy had not recovered from this staggering loss by 1941.


They even murdered the local officials.

Other causes of the famine were drought, a typhoid epidemic that hit Ukraine at the time, and lastly the disorder left by the introduction of the collectivized farms.

Also, the only sources that will give you over 5 million dead come mostly Ukrainian Nationalists and Nazis, and idiots like Conquest.
Estimates done by professional journalists have the number around 1-2 million.
Drace
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Drace
3,880 posts
Nomad

HHAHAHAHHAHA

DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS

FireflyIV
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FireflyIV
3,224 posts
Nomad

What do you guys think?


Of course, I think it was a terrible thing. Although I think it's a stretch to desribe it as a genocide, even if by UN law, it is. The famines during Stalin's reign affected everyone, regardless of race, religion or creed.

I do however find it more interesting, which tradgedies are better remembered than others, i.e., the Holocaust. It seems that the mass extermination of a people based on religion is always going to be better remembered than one based on politics.
balerion07
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balerion07
2,837 posts
Peasant

What if it is based on a theocracy? Then you have both elements...

pathologic
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pathologic
13 posts
Nomad

the 2nd worst thing about genocides is that you cant say which country did that,in order for a genocide to be valid and accepted worldwide an in judicial terms the country who did it should accept it,otherwise no nation could try to take a compensation for this crime by using judiciary means unless as I said so the nation itself accepts that he did it

thelistman
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thelistman
1,416 posts
Shepherd

Compensation for Ukraine is pretty much out of the question. The famine/genocide was 80 years ago. So most of the survivors are dead. Plus, Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union until 1991. A country wouldn't give reparations to itself.

The genocide should be recognized by Russia to show the mistakes of the past, and to normalize relations between them and Ukraine.

pathologic
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pathologic
13 posts
Nomad

well in terms of judiciary the right of having property(negative freedom;no one can take your property and get on with it) is considered as something which continues as generations pass by untill...well end of the world(when it comes to immovable property like houses that have burned down or destroyed or land that is taken without being returned to the rightfull owner or to the descendant of the owner time is not important as said by the international courts) so one descendant can sue the successor nation for the damages that have done but as I said so the nation have to accept that they have done the genocide

balerion07
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balerion07
2,837 posts
Peasant

Mother Russia cannot be held accountable for the actions of the USSR.

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