As someone who has spent over 13 years in the public education system (pre k - 12th grade), I am very interested in the effects that this has had on me. Therefore, I ask this question: What kind of person does the public school system create?
You should consider: 1) The severity of the effect of this system, 2) If it is different from other systems' effects (IE homeschool, private school), and 3) The different ways different kinds of students can be affected. You should NOT talk about how mean or annoying your teachers are unless you think your teachers are a good representation of the average teacher. This is meant to be a discussion about public school in general. This is a fairly important topic, seeing as there are almost 50 million students enrolled in public schools in the U.S.
I just realized I worded that wrong. I meant to say that this increased the quality of public schools, not decreased it. My bad.
Ah.
Well, the class I was referring to does not actually teach anything. This might be a better example: Everyone in my state is required to take a class called AK studies. In this class, you learn the history of the state of Alaska. I have lived here for 15 years, and have already had to take multiple classes on this subject in middle school. So far, we have watched a tourist video and have colored some maps. You can take the class online, but you can't test out. Furthermore, next year I will go to college out of state. It is entirely possibly that I will never live in Alaska again. The same goes for most other college bound students. So why do we take this class? It teaches us something we already know about a subject we will never think about again.
This kind of thing is not widespread and is only really a blow to the soundness of your high school and other ones in Alaska that do that. Most high schools I've heard of don't have arbitrarily decided pointless classes like that to take - though it is indeed a bit of an lolwut towards your school.
In highschool, the most challenging classes you will find are AP classes (as far as I know). They are supposed to be college level, but are not. I spend most of my time in these classes programming a text-based RPG onto my graphing calculator. Additionally, the "last" biology class you can take is AP Bio. There isn't an AP microbiology, or AP Evolution, or AP Ecology. If you take AP Bio as a sophmore, that's it. There isn't a harder biology class to take. If you want to take another science class, you can take AP chem or AP Physics. But it is entirely possible that neither of these will interest you (although AP chem does build a nice scientific foundation for the other studies).
Once again, this is true a good deal of the time, but not always. Not all public high schools have the exact same loadout of classes to take, as evidenced by your AK studies class which sure as hell isn't in any high school in Indiana. Some high schools do have microbiology classes and other classes of the sort.
Well, the class I was referring to does not actually teach anything. This might be a better example: Everyone in my state is required to take a class called AK studies. In this class, you learn the history of the state of Alaska. I have lived here for 15 years, and have already had to take multiple classes on this subject in middle school. So far, we have watched a tourist video and have colored some maps. You can take the class online, but you can't test out. Furthermore, next year I will go to college out of state. It is entirely possibly that I will never live in Alaska again. The same goes for most other college bound students. So why do we take this class? It teaches us something we already know about a subject we will never think about again.
Those types of classes are required in most states. I have to take Texas History despite the fact I learn nothing, hate it, and everyone in it sucks.
If anything the only two classes that should be mandatory are Math and English. That's it, because those are the only two you are guaranteed to think about every day for the rest of your life.
Some high schools do have microbiology classes and other classes of the sort.
While your point about AK studies is legitimate, I have to dissagree with you here. AP classes are nationwide. Your highschool can't just create AP microbiology; it must be approved by the college board first. It could offer a basic class on microbiology, but this would not be more difficult than AP bio, and would therefore be boring to many advanced students. I was referring to the lack of other biology classes that are "college level." Here is a list of AP classes.
While your point about AK studies is legitimate, I have to dissagree with you here. AP classes are nationwide. Your highschool can't just create AP microbiology; it must be approved by the college board first. It could offer a basic class on microbiology, but this would not be more difficult than AP bio, and would therefore be boring to many advanced students. I was referring to the lack of other biology classes that are "college level." Here is a list of AP classes.
How many people would actually take microbiology? The problem is that even if it was offered, what is the chance that there would be enough students who want to take the class to justify having a teacher teach it.
AP is as hard as the teacher wants it to be. Some teachers want to make classes easy, some difficult. The syllabus must be approved by the college board, but for the most part the teacher makes the tests and assigns things that way.
A high school should have to offer every class that their students want to take. They don't offer any pre-law classes, so why not have those? What about organic chemistry? Why not education classes for the future teachers? The reason is there isn't enough of a demand.
AP classes are designed to give a student college level coursework experience along with credit for their basic classes. Microbiology isn't a basic class. They give biology because all students must take at least 1 science. The same goes for AP English, or History, Econ, Government, Calculus, ect. Most of those classes are required to meet your basic skills in college (the classes you take your freshman and sophomore year before you take your major classes).
While your point about AK studies is legitimate, I have to dissagree with you here. AP classes are nationwide. Your highschool can't just create AP microbiology; it must be approved by the college board first. It could offer a basic class on microbiology, but this would not be more difficult than AP bio, and would therefore be boring to many advanced students. I was referring to the lack of other biology classes that are "college level." Here is a list of AP classes.
My point was/is that not all public schools have the same classes - did I say AP microbiology? No, I said microbiology. Your entire paragraph is talking about the creation of AP classes, which I never touched. Your response doesn't even argue my point, so my point remains unrefuted.
Also(forgot to add this) it's quite possible for schools to create non-AP specialized classes in a field that're more difficult than the basic-level AP classes - classes in high school are as tough as the local school board cares to make them, as long as they meet the standards. There can be, for example, a microbiology class at college level, with a college textbook, that isn't an AP class created for a school. It's entirely possible. If I take AP bio in my sophomore year and my high school has a college-level theoretical microbiology class available from junior year onwards, it's legal as long as it isn't technically qualified as an AP class.
My point was/is that not all public schools have the same classes - did I say AP microbiology? No, I said microbiology. Your entire paragraph is talking about the creation of AP classes, which I never touched. Your response doesn't even argue my point, so my point remains unrefuted.
I was under the impression that you were saying that my highschool's lack of diverse challenging classes was an isolated incident. An un-AP microbiology class would be pointless and no one (except underachievers who want science credit) would take it. The fact is, no highschool in the U.S. teaches any type of advanced biology besides AP Bio. Microbiology was just an example. I would be happy if they just had one more biology class that is more focused. They have AP environmental studies class (not taught at most schools), but it is more a chemistry thing. Obviously they have other biology classes besides AP bio. But, given the competitive nature of college admissions and the importance of class rank and GPA, no advanced student would ever take these classes unless they had to. My school offers a marine biology class that I would probably enjoy, but if I took it it would lower my GPA automatically. Therefore, from the advanced students perspective, non-ap classes don't really count as classes at all.
By 'advanced' do you mean AP? Because if not, that's a huge, sweeping generalization that's most likely wrong.
Yes. But either way it is irrelevant.
AP classes are important because they're more difficult than regular classes and you can get a max of 5.0 GPA instead of 4.
Thats exactly my point! Why would I take a class that has a max of 4.0 when I can take one that has a max of 5? It doesn't matter if the non-ap class is challenging or fun or whatever. It will lower my GPA (because I have over a 4.0, as do many people), and therefore make it harder to get into a good college. Colleges also want you to take as many AP classes as possible, because those are the only ones that they KNOW are challengin. Mr. Smith may teach a very challenging and compelling micriobiology class that is very hard to ace. But Standford has no idea who Mr. Smith is or how he teaches his class. So an "A" in that class means nothing. Additionally, the fact that you are choosing to take an un-ap class instead of an AP class might make the college think you are a slacker. Even if Mr. Smith writes a letter to the college explaining how difficult the class is, it might not help that much. It would all depend on how convincing Mr. Smith is, and how trusting the college is. No matter what, it is far safer just to take AP Euro or something, even though you aren't that interested in history (I was just using Euro as an example. It is, in fact, an awesome class). There are, of course, exceptions to this. For instance, the difficulty of foriegn language classes is well known, so it doesn't look bad if you take Spanish 3 instead of an AP class in a different subject. So, in summary: Hard non AP class: Too risky Easy Non-ap class: Too boring
Most of you don't quite know what you're talking about. 1. I could go to college right now and I'm in 5th grade 2. My teachers logic sucks big time 3. All the stuff they teach me has never been used by me (except the basics such as reading, math, surprisingly, not multiplication which I found out myself) 4. I'm going to be a programmer which involves NOTHING what they teach you in school, except logic which the teacher just so happens to lack. 5. I argue with teachers constantly because their relative points of view are restricted to the text books. Sometimes I forget which is actually teaching, the teachers or me :/. 6. If I took accelerated classes, I could graduate when I'm 15/14, but I still would learn useless stuff, if I went to college right now I could get a job when I became 15 (well, the if I graduated that early the managers would only have to assume I'm a genius) 7. If teachers actually used the white board they could really teach us.
Responsibility is the most important thing once you leave 6th grade. you need to know what will happen if you don't succeed and you need to know what happens if you do. The knowledge in school isn't the most important at all it's what you put into to LEARNING the knowledge that counts. THAT is what you take with you when you leave your parent's house.
Really? Because if that's true I've no idea why I've spent four years of my life learning something I could have learned and slept in. If that were true well we'd be in the nineteenth century.
1. I could go to college right now and I'm in 5th grade
you could, but you'd flunk out in weeks. nobody is ready for college in middle school besides someone who could qualify to join the Giga society. And there are only 7 of those people in the world right now, and they're all adults.
4. I'm going to be a programmer which involves NOTHING what they teach you in school, except logic which the teacher just so happens to lack.
It also requires social skills, understanding of computers, math skills(nominal ones, but still math skills)and other stuff that school gets you.
5. I argue with teachers constantly because their relative points of view are restricted to the text books. Sometimes I forget which is actually teaching, the teachers or me :/.
It's the teacher teaching, and you providing constructive discussion.
6. If I took accelerated classes, I could graduate when I'm 15/14, but I still would learn useless stuff, if I went to college right now I could get a job when I became 15 (well, the if I graduated that early the managers would only have to assume I'm a genius)
It doesn't work like that. The things that matter most in a programming job are hands-on experience programming and social skills, both of which would be truncated noticeably if you graduated more than a year early.
Believe me, I know what it's like to be super-bored in school, but you're overestimating yourself if you think you can go straight to college from 5th grade. There are a multitude of factors that make middle and high school important other than what's being taught in the classes.
School is an important thing to go through, even if the teachers are just telling you things you already know, day after day after day.
School is an important thing to go through, even if the teachers are just telling you things you already know, day after day after day.
Or things you will never need, like state history, unless you plan on being a historian.
I just sleep through that one. My only rest in the day.
1. I could go to college right now and I'm in 5th grade
I don't think so. I astound several of my teachers with my intelligence, but I'm not even close to college. That's the last thing I have on my mind.
2. My teachers logic sucks big time
Do you have one or several?
3. All the stuff they teach me has never been used by me (except the basics such as reading, math, surprisingly, not multiplication which I found out myself)
They probably won't ever help you, but I would suggest paying attention. They'll tell you something important and you won't listen, and there goes the all important GPA.
Trust me on that. I spaced out in math while we were being taught how to multiply decimals, and I had to resort to the time consuming lattice multiplication.
5. I argue with teachers constantly because their relative points of view are restricted to the text books. Sometimes I forget which is actually teaching, the teachers or me :/.
You have a very bad teacher then. They should be capable of teaching something beyond what the textbook says.
6. If I took accelerated classes, I could graduate when I'm 15/14, but I still would learn useless stuff, if I went to college right now I could get a job when I became 15 (well, the if I graduated that early the managers would only have to assume I'm a genius)
Not a good idea. For one, you won't fit in very well in college, crushing your already far behind social skills, second you would have trouble with time management, because just about everyone needs at least a decade and a course in it before they learn the basics of it.
7. If teachers actually used the white board they could really teach us.
