I was learning about animal testing in ICT, we watched some videos and saw some pictures. I thought it was sick and horrible but do you people at AG think its right or wrong?
IRAN launched a MOUSE, 2 TURTLES, and WORMS out into space for research! I wonder how they'll feel when they come back down. :S
By the way, I'm sorry for all the spam. First the fail picture and the chart, I'll just give you the wikipedia link. [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Types_of_vertebrates_v2en.png] Anyway, hopefully I spurred something to discuss between all my spam. Tbh though, thats really how I feel about it -- Some of the animals [some] are there for that very purpose. I'm not going to grow a fat bessey cow on my farm just to kick it out and let it wag its utter out to the world somewhere in the middle of Austria. Wouldn't be cool.
We didn't give birth to them, but they wouldn't be here without us.
I'm pretty sure that would be one hell of a human/livingthing right's violation to breed them just for their own extermination
Happens all the time. Not with people though. Never understood why we don't use people for some kinds of testing. Maybe capital offenders. I like that idea.
or to say that we are the owners of their lives instead of (Depending on who it is) they're creater/the fruit of life/whatever.
It's not particularly moral to own any living thing, but morality is a clouded thing. It's good in society but bad for everything else. To be able to do any killing you need to lose a little morality, and that works with ownership as well.
We didn't give birth to them, but they wouldn't be here without us
Not sure where your particularly going from here, most Mice die that go through experimentation [They're usually medical troopers] -- and the majority we get are still wildlife, Mice are rather abundant in different areas. Not that we don't breed any for our own [I saw this badass documentary about this mouse that, with a bit of some nasty stuff that'll kill it eventually -- could find Cheez from like a mile away, frkin crazy], but I don't think I feel that the human race is responsible for the allowance of letting all other animals live. We rely on them.
The fact that I think you feel that a death row convict should be locked up to be treated inhumanely is sickening -- I understand that you feel that Animals are above such lowlife people, but they are still people and I can't understand how any researcher would feel about scrubbing shampoo and lotion of a man's skin for years trying to test out side effects.
I posted that earlier -- I'm not sure, but I know its common to feel that we can at least put our own species on equal footing with us. It would, in my opinion, be too much of a loss -- not a little morality, but a lot of morality and a ton of human rights to think of ever testing junk out on capital offenders.
And, just for realities sake -- What kind of man would want to treat another human being around like a monkey and inject/spread random chemical junk on him for testing? It would be a sick job.
I guess the way you look at it is debatable, but eh.
Not sure where your particularly going from here, most Mice die that go through experimentation [They're usually medical troopers] -- and the majority we get are still wildlife, Mice are rather abundant in different areas.
I'm talking about lab rats. Which were bred by us, and as such are alive because of it, and their ancestors have for many generations.
I do not condone slaughter or mice in fields for fun or experimentation. That's redundant.
I posted that earlier -- I'm not sure, but I know its common to feel that we can at least put our own species on equal footing with us. It would, in my opinion, be too much of a loss -- not a little morality, but a lot of morality and a ton of human rights to think of ever testing junk out on capital offenders.
They're still going to die with drugs that most animal organizations completely forbid.
Might as well give them some rare disease and test treatments for it. If they live, we save their life and give them a lesser sentence. If they die, they're dead.
Would have death row over flowing with requests.
Of course, this would be after preliminary testing.
And, just for realities sake -- What kind of man would want to treat another human being around like a monkey and inject/spread random chemical junk on him for testing? It would be a sick job.
Get some psychopaths to do it. Maybe their fellow inmates. People who would want to.
Either that or they get injected with chemicals and are thrown into a grave, rather uselessly.
I guess the way you look at it is debatable, but eh.
Not for the faint of heart, no. But people have an uncanny knack at killing each other, quite often just for fun.
Opps quoted to much >_>... im new with it every thing under i think what they should do is instead of testting animals test death row convicts (it better than the death penalty) is all my opinion
If you could have let go of the ancestor that you took to the lab his family would be thriving in the wild.
Maybe, but who can say for sure?
They're better off where they are right now though. They don't have predators, they aren't being annoying or dangerous to people, and they help. A lot.
We wouldn't have many of the cures and treatments we have today without mice and rats. They have greatly improved our society.
Needed sacrifice.
But they were bred by us, and we created what they are today. They are quite frequently a very different species then they were 30-40 years ago, thanks to our genetics programs.
Did I mention it helps us learn about genetics?
No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.
Testing on them isn't any of the above. It's not inhuman, cruel, degrading, or torture. It falls under the helpful side. And with the drugs and diseases they'll be being tested with, if anything goes awry, they'll be saved. Don't forget that they'll only be being treated with drugs that are already past many prior steps. We're not giving them a disorder and giving them totally under prepared drugs.
If they are willing, they can be exempt from any rules, might I also add.
They are quite frequently a very different species then they were 30-40 years ago, thanks to our genetics programs.
The whole point is that you test the cures on regular mammals, not some geneticaly modifed. What if they they treat geneticaly modified rats, and the modification came wrong. Anyway usual humans which use the medicene are not genetically modified. Usual sientists would modify geneticaly diffrent rats that the test ones. The whole point in an experiment is that it is a. can be made again. b. has as little differing factors from the phenomenon that you check and and the object that is checked.
I have no idea why you or I learnt about vivisection and the deplorable points about it in ICT, lol, I thought it was stupid.
well we werent learning about it we were making a powerpoint about it. And some of the websites we went on had images/videos of vivesection. It was our choice to watch the videos we didnt have to.
The whole point is that you test the cures on regular mammals,
Most lab rats aren't genetically the same as their Norwegian rat ancestors. They have different genomes so that we can give them a disease and not worry about them not working properly.
Things that are used for little things don't have these modifications, such as skin treatments etc., but medical treatments require specific qualities that aren't typically found.
Goes for mice as well.
a. can be made again.
There are thousands of every type. Remember, species, regardless of genetic code, can reproduce. This is how we maintain them.
And we're more than likely cloning the rats and mice to give us exact reproducible qualities.
b. has as little differing factors from the phenomenon that you check and and the object that is checked.
Many things can't be used for researching. Giving chemotherapy to an unmodified animal will create something that is realistic, but unreproducible. If the animal has no immune system, and is specifically designed to not have one, you can give it liver cancer a million times and the same effect will happen. You give it to an off the street animal, you do it a million times, you have a million different immune systems, you have a million different results. The final stages of testing we use unmodified animals, before we use humans, and we get a better picture. But every test before that requires some variation in animal genome.
I suppose it like eating meat you say you could never kill an animal but you eat it. With animal testing loads of people say is bad but they still use cosmetics and thing they test on them. I check becuase occasionally it will say if animals have been used to test it or not, although i never wear make-up.
