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Graham
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Graham
8,047 posts
Nomad

I had an interesting conversation recently about the unknown.

How can you classify something as unknown when the thought itself has to be known to exist to be labeled as unknown?

If this were true, anything ever unmentioned and not thought of is the unknown.

Do you know, or do you think you know?

Think is implied as being unsure, yet it is also the action required to have knowing.

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valkery
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valkery
1,255 posts
Nomad

You think to deeply.

Seriously though, not all things unknown are unknown. They just may be unknown to you.

However, if some one knows it than it is not an unknown. If they think that they know than they are not quite sure and do not know.

The thing is "Science" does not allow for something to have mystery or intrigue. Something known by science really is known in every sense of the word. It has been analized and data has been pulled up on it and the entire thing is now laid bare for the whole world to see in their books.

Cenere
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Cenere
13,656 posts
Jester

http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/7/77/201Unown.png

The great unknown. We know the concept, but we have no idea what it would imply. Usually human only known of the concept of something not known, but not what it actually is.

Graham
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Graham
8,047 posts
Nomad

not all things unknown are unknown.


I don't remember saying all things were. How can anything be unknown if you use it as an idea?


we have no idea what it would imply.


Think of two things unrelated to eachother and combine them, then you have an unknown become known.


The thing is "Science" does not allow for something to have mystery or intrigue.

now has anyone thought of this before? find out the unknown by asking and queries. Scientific method anyone?
Cenere
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Cenere
13,656 posts
Jester

The thing is "Science" does not allow for something to have mystery or intrigue. Something known by science really is known in every sense of the word. It has been analized and data has been pulled up on it and the entire thing is now laid bare for the whole world to see in their books.

Oh, you are positivist, huh?
Depending on what type of science/theories/wing you are going by, there is a lot of mystery in science. After all, nothing in science is a fact. We can only assume we are correct.
Unless it is math, but that is a formal science, and does not apply to reality.
I knew that class would be awesome.
Graham
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Graham
8,047 posts
Nomad

We know the concept, but we have no idea what it would imply. Usually human only known of the concept of something not known, but not what it actually is.


Can everything and all things be unknown as to what an existing being can understand?

A blade of grass (as far as we know) doesn't know about arithmetic.

is arithmetic believed to be unknown then?

Humans as a collective knowing something is a paradox. Knowing can only be achieved by the individual.
Conquerer95
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Conquerer95
11 posts
Nomad

That question hurts my brain. Unknown is simply a word to describe something that consists of having no specific name or detail.

That's the best I can answer it. :P

Cenere
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Cenere
13,656 posts
Jester

Mathematics as mentioned is a formal science that does not apply to reality. It is logic, but while something might be right in math, it does not have to be so in reality. We can only assume it is.
To some a piece of grass would only be real when you can measure it and sense it. To others, the same piece is real because it seems the more logic. We cannot know which is right, because we always have to sense it before knowing it is there. So where is the grass when you don't look at it? The same place or does it seize to exist.

goumas13
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goumas13
4,749 posts
Grand Duke

The unknown it's not only the not known, it's also the not apprehended.

I will quote now Donald Rumsfeld:
There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we now know we donât know. But there are also unknown unknowns. These are things we do not know we donât know.

Graham
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Graham
8,047 posts
Nomad

So where is the grass when you don't look at it? The same place or does it cease to exist?


you could have: different perspective of where the grass is and the original thought of placement would be altered.

or: it is in the same place yet it ceases to exist in your reality.

or: it isn't in the same place due to anything can happen (quantum) and it ceases to exist in your reality.

or: it isn't in the same place due to anything can happen (quantum) and it the thought of placement altered while sensing it.

so like... neither, both, and see-saw.
Cenere
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Cenere
13,656 posts
Jester

Darn I hate to spell.

But yeah. All of that 'roves' that even science is not a sure source. The facts are assumptions.
On the unknown thing: not really something we have discussed.

WexMajor82
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WexMajor82
1,025 posts
Nomad

So, are you sure yourself IS?
I mean, how do you know that you exist?
What proof do you have, that all you sense is real?

chitown
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chitown
1,614 posts
Farmer

You make my head hurt, I can't think like that. Thanks for the headache.

popsi563
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popsi563
34 posts
Nomad

So, are you sure yourself IS?
I mean, how do you know that you exist?
What proof do you have, that all you sense is real?


Thats like in the Matrix. But your right, how do we know we really exist? Or do our minds trick us into thinking we do?

And nothing is really known. Like everybody knows that a banana is yellow, but how do you proove that? Maybe your eyes are making it yellow, but it's not.
WexMajor82
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WexMajor82
1,025 posts
Nomad

Like everybody knows that a banana is yellow, but how do you proove that? Maybe your eyes are making it yellow, but it's not.


And maybe, my yellow (if yellow exist) is different from your yellow!

Joking aside, the only thing you can have as proof of your existence is the fact that you think.
I don't think that non-existing thing worries about existing.
Graham
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Graham
8,047 posts
Nomad

I don't think that non-existing thing worries about existing.


But, can an existing judge what a non-existant being would think?

do our minds trick us into thinking we do?


Reminds me of A Beautiful Mind. He figures out through logic that his hallucinations are unreal though.

You make my head hurt,


Seems to be a pattern of that in most of my threads.
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