ForumsWEPRBIG GOV. Or small gov. ?

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whyismynametom
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whyismynametom
263 posts
Nomad

like it says should gov. be big and protecting, or small and stay out of the way?

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314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

And what allows someone to just make up a government? What &quotowerful group"?


In most cases? The anarchist.


As if the government collapsing would mean everyone suddently turns on each other and everyone becomes animals...


With no law and nothing to enforce anything people tend to anything they feel like.
Drace
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Drace
3,880 posts
Nomad

In most cases? The anarchist.


What?...

With no law and nothing to enforce anything people tend to anything they feel like.


Yes I need a law to tell me that murdering is bad.

I only keep myself from killing people because I might go to jail for it...
deserteagle
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deserteagle
1,633 posts
Nomad

I only keep myself from killing people because I might go to jail for it...


If people weren't punished for their actions, what will that accomplish? It will only encourage bad behaviors..

Law provides people with protection from themselves and others.
Drace
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Drace
3,880 posts
Nomad

If people weren't punished for their actions, what will that accomplish? It will only encourage bad behaviors..


Lol again, no government doesn't mean there would be no organization. Prisons would exist.

But not that &quotunishing" someone by throwing them jail actually rehabilitates anyone...

Law provides people with protection from themselves and others.


From themselves? Lol
NoNameC68
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NoNameC68
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Shepherd

And what allows someone to just make up a government? What &quotowerful group"?
As if the government collapsing would mean everyone suddently turns on each other and everyone becomes animals...


So no government means no evil? Without a government, there will still be gangs and organized crime. Those would become the rulers of the state.
314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

In most cases? The anarchist.
What?...



The people who caused said anarchy/


Lol again, no government doesn't mean there would be no organization. Prisons would exist.


Who whould run the prison? Who whould pay to have it made? Who whould enfoce who goes in?


Yes I need a law to tell me that murdering is bad.
I only keep myself from killing people because I might go to jail for it...


Im assuming you have heard of gangs before, correct? Said gangs whould be mutch worse in an anarchy, and likly have more powerfull weaponary.
Drace
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Drace
3,880 posts
Nomad

So no government means no evil? Without a government, there will still be gangs and organized crime. Those would become the rulers of the state.


What? Why would there be a prevalence of "gangs" and "organized crime"?

Society would be highly organized to meet its needs, whether this be education, health care or prisons.

To say a bunch of men with guns will somehow arise and commit crime is one thing, but to say they will bring wrath on a whole region and somehow establish a military dictatorship is a ridiculous and hypothetical situation.
Drace
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Drace
3,880 posts
Nomad

The people who caused said anarchy/


This makes no sense.

Who whould run the prison? Who whould pay to have it made? Who whould enfoce who goes in?


An organized police force of the community, the community, the police and law.

Im assuming you have heard of gangs before, correct? Said gangs whould be mutch worse in an anarchy, and likly have more powerfull weaponary.


Lol, gangs are very much the cause of poverty and their very dis-organized and divided gangsters with guns who commit stupid crime. How this translates to gang rule within the presence of an already organized community, I don't know.

So some gangsters are going to kill the towns people, the local representatives, the mayors, etc and occupy the town/city building by bypassing security and police and then keep the hundreds and thousands of people under their rule merely with a few guns. Interesting. Write a fiction story about it.
314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

An organized police force of the community, the community, the police and law.


So your saying they whould form law under an anarchy, thus defeating the point...


When there is no law martial law insues. Eventualy the biggest, strongest group will rule, in your example it was the community, in maney it is a dictator, but what you see is not an anarchy, more of a true democracy.
Drace
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Drace
3,880 posts
Nomad

So your saying they whould form law under an anarchy, thus defeating the point...


No...
The point is to abolish the hierarchy in the social and the political context and to do away with government rule, wars, and imperialism.

When there is no law martial law insues. Eventualy the biggest, strongest group will rule, in your example it was the community, in maney it is a dictator, but what you see is not an anarchy, more of a true democracy.


Might want to start here. A true democracy is what anarchists aim for...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism
NoNameC68
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NoNameC68
5,043 posts
Shepherd

I love how you never heard of organized crime before.

Click here

Prove this won't happen under anarchy.

Drace
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Drace
3,880 posts
Nomad

Rofl?

Prove how an earthquake won't happen under governments.

Though mafias are centered around profit and being able to manipulate businesses. The conditions for a upsurge of a mafia won't really exist.

In 1986, according to government reports[citation needed], it was estimated that there were 500 members of Cosa Nostra and thousands of associate members


Oh omg!
Drace
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Drace
3,880 posts
Nomad

But hey, how about historical proof.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_anarchist_communities#

wajor59
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wajor59
909 posts
Nomad

I would like to see government cut in half. There's too much pork in DC.
Laws aren't written for law abiding citizens. Laws are written for criminals. Law abiding citizens need services that local government provides: firemen, police, sheriff, marshals, lawyers, judges and I'm sure I've left some off of the list.. Firemen are a given and in my area, our fire stations are also recycling centers. Police are needed to investigate crime and cruise the gang "hoods".

So some gangsters are going to kill the towns people, the local representatives, the mayors, etc and occupy the town/city building by bypassing security and police and then keep the hundreds and thousands of people under their rule merely with a few guns. Interesting. Write a fiction story about it.


Gangs in NC are very organized. Every other day in the local newspaper, the police blotter keeps growing. The only criminals' getting caught are the ones not in gangs. For about 25 yrs, gangs have been moving to the suburbs. Prison gangs are growing more organized too. We need state and federal prisons, wardens and guards. Do I think prisoners would break out and take over, yes.
Could they get away with it? Not the first couple of times but they would cause many sleepless nights.

The sheriff is needed because people are also going to try to get away with more vice than the local cops can handle. The Sheriff, since he(she) should still be elected knows the county better than city cops and is basically the go-between with city and highway patrol. Highway Patrolmen are necessary because they catch speeders, of course but they also sweep the glass/debris off of the county roads, highways & freeways and yes they even move carcass' to the shoulder, off of the road. Highway patrolmen are usually the first responder(s) to traffic accidents especially the big ones in case the lanes need to be blocked, detours can be set up, etc.

I've worked in Government run hospitals before and they are the worst in just about every way. One hospital was so bad the only thing fresh and shining was the floor.
People will need wills, deeds, land surveyors, mortgage lenders. You get the point, we as a society could step up to the plate more but not everyone is cut out to be sheriff, lawyer, etc, even with the proper education.
Probably the best thing that Bush did as president was establish "homeland security". For the first time in history all branches of military and servicemen communicate and rehearse emergency scenarios.
NoNameC68
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NoNameC68
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Shepherd

Only the Icelandic Commonwealth lasted more than 50 years. The Icelandic Commonwealth ended in 1262, which is such a long time ago that it is questionable if such society would have lasted so long today. Christiania, the only other anarchist community that really exists today, only includes about 1000 residents. It's not too hard for 1000 people to live in relative peace. However, they are living within a government controlled territory.

None of this is proof that a whole nation can run succesfully under anarchism. It does prove that small communities can exist, but even that's a bit of a stretch.

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