ForumsWEPRIs torture ever acceptable?

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whyismynametom
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whyismynametom
263 posts
Nomad

what do you think?

  • 54 Replies
nonconformist
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nonconformist
1,101 posts
Nomad

Torture is only acceptable in pron... becuz sick ppl out there enjoy it.

killersquirrel1488
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killersquirrel1488
63 posts
Nomad

If you have someone trying to kill thousands of civilians, then it is justifiable, although I wouldn't want the government torturing Americans.

EnterOrion
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EnterOrion
4,220 posts
Nomad

Failed diplomacy does not validate a war. It just means your country is bad at diplomacy. So instead of wasting men and money on a rather pointless war (I mean, Britain hardly even noticed it was happening), why not try to improve your diplomatic tactics?


Keep flying planes into me and killing my negotiators. I'll continue to do nothing and watch as millions die in chaotic infernos.

Negotiation works up to a point. After that it's pointless. Are you going to negotiate with that homicidal serial killer if you know you have a knife under your pillow? I for one am going to grab it, and make him pay. Break into my house, kill everything in it, and I'll break into your belly, and kill everything in it.

For example if in Iraq we use the same guerilla tactics that the taliban uses would our losses been as high as they currently are?


Considering how our losses are far lower than theirs, I like our current methods.

I agree with XVERB if I was being tortured (depends on how extreme it is) I would say whatever the hell they wanted me to say


Then they come back and torture you more. It's that simple. You lie, that double the agony. It's best to just say something that will either make you a) die or b) live away from them. You're superiors aren't going to think much less of you if you betray non-vital information, which is really all you need. You could just say nothing and let them continue shocking your balls and pulling out your finger nails until they finally get sick of your screams and burn you alive.
Xzeno
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Xzeno
2,301 posts
Nomad

Hey, I myself don't support war in the least, however if you're going to figh, fight to WIN!
So even if you disagree with the reasons behind the fighting, you believe victory should be fought for for its own sake and nothing more? On a related note, I have found a less worthy cause than nationalism.

thus torturing is some times necissary for defence.
At the risk of sounding like a broken record: Defense of what?

I say no. Torture is NEVER acceptable. Simple as that.
On the off chance my position on this matter wasn't clear, QFT.

Also, EnterOrion, could you lay off the graphic descriptions a bit?
314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

At the risk of sounding like a broken record: Defense of what?


The country. Armies are easier to beat when you know there stratigies.
Graham
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Graham
8,051 posts
Nomad

What if the person likes it?


....yeah..

FireflyIV
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FireflyIV
3,224 posts
Nomad

Keep flying planes into me and killing my negotiators. I'll continue to do nothing and watch as millions die in chaotic infernos.


The Taliban were actually willing to negotiate the extradition of Osama Bin Laden. The US ignored international law by invading Afghanistan.

Also please tell me where you are getting this figrue of 'millions'? You do realise the world trade centre wasn't a tardis right?

Negotiation works up to a point. After that it's pointless. Are you going to negotiate with that homicidal serial killer if you know you have a knife under your pillow? I for one am going to grab it, and make him pay. Break into my house, kill everything in it, and I'll break into your belly, and kill everything in it.


Nice strawman.

You could just say nothing and let them continue shocking your balls and pulling out your finger nails until they finally get sick of your screams and burn you alive.


You have an odd view of how interogations actually work. Most of the world's best 'torturers' have reached the consensus that in most cases the infliction of pain is not necessary and is counter productive when you want to get good intel.

Considering how our losses are far lower than theirs, I like our current methods.


This is the kind of logic that justified the use of chemical weapons on civilian populations in Vietnam. A war which you ended up losing.
Kyouzou
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Kyouzou
5,061 posts
Jester

Considering how our losses are far lower than theirs, I like our current methods.


Because our forces are better trained and there are more of them, currently we're doing great but we have lost people. Take Vietnam for example we lost 50,000 soldiers granted we didn't know shit about the terrain and the average life expectancy for a soldier was 8 seconds.

So even if you disagree with the reasons behind the fighting, you believe victory should be fought for for its own sake and nothing more? On a related note, I have found a less worthy cause than nationalism.


If you find an idea worthy enough to go to war for it, then actually fight for it. The causes behind a war can be just or unjust, WWII for example Hitler's soldiers did everything they could to win and until the US stepped in they were winning. They conquered an entire country within a month while the rest of the world stood by and watched! That's what happens when you're willing to fight for your cause and you have a soldier and not a civilian running things.
KirinTor
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KirinTor
43 posts
Nomad

No, torture is stupid and inhuman.

EnterOrion
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EnterOrion
4,220 posts
Nomad

You have an odd view of how interogations actually work. Most of the world's best 'torturers' have reached the consensus that in most cases the infliction of pain is not necessary and is counter productive when you want to get good intel.


They do it slow first, then get worse. Americans don't, but most do. Remember, everyone is breathing down our necks.

Also please tell me where you are getting this figrue of 'millions'? You do realise the world trade centre wasn't a tardis right?


You keep doing things like that, the numbers do add up. You did know that right? They got stopped because we forced them to stop.

The Taliban were actually willing to negotiate the extradition of Osama Bin Laden. The US ignored international law by invading Afghanistan.


And the rest of Al Quaida? I don't think so. Power assumes from the top down. Hierarchies never work it a 'Cut off the head' fashion. You have to kill the whole body, not just the head.

currently we're doing great but we have lost people


We would lose more if we fought like them. Less from them, but more as the rest of the world gets really pissed off and starts attacking you. Don't forget, their methods kill thousands of people, far more than military fighting does.

The US ignored international law by invading Afghanistan.


We completely followed it.

Get attacked = fight back. Simple as that.

This is the kind of logic that justified the use of chemical weapons on civilian populations in Vietnam. A war which you ended up losing.


Our current methods are hyper conservative. We don't kill everything to kill one person. Unlike in Vietnam, we have hyper precision weaponry. We know who to kill, and when to do it. Our current methods are the best methods of warfare around, besides sitting around and waiting for attacks, which would kill us faster than them.
wajor59
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wajor59
909 posts
Nomad

This is the kind of logic that justified the use of chemical weapons on civilian populations in Vietnam. A war which you ended up losing.
Our current methods are hyper conservative. We don't kill everything to kill one person. Unlike in Vietnam, we have hyper precision weaponry. We know who to kill, and when to do it. Our current methods are the best methods of warfare around, besides sitting around and waiting for attacks, which would kill us faster than them.


Now why did you have to talk, without factual history, about the Vietnam war?
Vietnam veterans facts
We, Americans didn't lose the war in Vietnam, the South Vietnamese did. The fall of Saigon was 4/30/75, two years after we, USA, pulled out.
Say what you want about GW Bush but he was correct in how he handled Afghanistan and Iraq as far as the UN is concerned and Pelosi may have been wearing ear plugs on the day she witnessed the Whitehouse briefing on interrogation tactics the President would sanction but make no mistake, she approved them too.
I am proud to be an American and considering the progress this young country has made, and led the rest of the world in making, you should be too.
Armpit
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Armpit
784 posts
Nomad

No, torture is stupid and inhuman.


So is making a blank statement and not explaining it.

I believe that torture is acceptable in certain situations, like if there is crucial information at stake and the holder of the information refuses to give it up. Even then, a bribe would probably be the more humane solution, but if the information holder is being difficult, there aren't many other options.
Thyll
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Thyll
476 posts
Nomad

I am proud to be an American and considering the progress this young country has made, and led the rest of the world in making, you should be too.

"Progress?"
"Led the rest of the world in making?"
No offense, but that is one of the most arrogant statements I've ever seen.

I would rather die in a terrorist attack then have someone tortured (in my name!) to prevent it. That is not "freedom". That is not "justice". That is the tactics of a coward.
Land of the free? No.
"He who gives up freedom for safety deserves neither."

Those who abandon their ideals in war are... Just... Weak.
Zanto_zsnes
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Zanto_zsnes
1,148 posts
Nomad

How would i torture someone?

Well, i would zap him with 95 volts every 0.2 seconds.

7432200
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7432200
134 posts
Nomad

my personal favorite is the one from 1984 where they lock you into a room full of rats then... well thats the bad part

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