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Forums → WEPR → Debate: The Freedom to Smoke Tobacco.

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Pertokeyo
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Pertokeyo
9 posts
Nomad

Smoking tobacco is a worldwide pastime.

It stems from the original use of tobacco as a theorised healthy leaf that used to be chewed on for leisure or used as incense in rituals. Today we are all aware of the risks associated with such a plant.

Smoking is a tiresome addiction that provides unusual false satisfaction to the brain and costs individuals thousands of pounds/dollars a year. There is also minor support from research to suggest that second hand smoke also causes severe damage to those who may or may not be willing to inhail it.

http://www.edinboro.edu/dotAsset/116140.jpg

My late mother was a serious smoker. The room where she spent most of her time in slowly turned from a wonderful white to a sludgy yellow. When adding up the cost of the 20+ cigarettes she was smoking each day the maths come to approximately £5 x 365 = £1825. That's the cost of two macs/one jet ski or fifty full priced console games.

Now legislation (with variations around the world) has begun to promote laws to reduce the necessity of non smokers to become exposed to second hand smoke. These laws range from total bans in public places such as the Vatican City to unenforced minor laws like they have in Germany.

http://r.chartsbin.com/chartimages/l_3k0

This debate is about whether or not you feel that smoking matters to you, and what conditions should be put on smokers when smoking in public places.

Is it right for the government to draw up and enforce laws to prevent innocent children from being subjected to their parents' smoke in cars, or should the government not get involved because these are human rights?

Are you a smoker? What effect does the biological desire to smoke have on you and your family? How should the law be fair and just for you? Is there enough help and guidance to quit smoking in your area?

Do you think that smoking is dying out on a global scale or do you believe that this legislation will eventually become ineffective?

Answers from many countries are welcome, including any insight into your personal experiences.

  • 59 Replies
SirLegendary
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SirLegendary
16,587 posts
Marquis

Hell it should never be allowed because we have to be more cautious and aware of what might happen to them if they smoke.

nevetsthereaper
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nevetsthereaper
641 posts
Nomad

Pertokeyo: We don't permit suicide so why permit something that "supposedly" causes it?
Moe
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Moe
1,714 posts
Farmer

I think people should be allowed to smoke tobacco(and marijuana, but thats a different topic), but only within their house, on their property, or in private buildings/areas that allow it. I don't want to smell or inhale any smoke from cigarettes, just like I don't want to see drunk people walking down the street(which is illegal).

nevetsthereaper
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nevetsthereaper
641 posts
Nomad

i meant to put something after that qoute, i was going to say that alcohol is just as bad, and fatty/sugary foods. i don't know if fat and sugar can kill you as fast, but i would want to be alive if i was 300 pounds and couldn't walk.

now what about murder, terrorists, psycho killers, the point is, there are so many things out there that can kill you today, why worry about something that can kill you in years

MRWalker82
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MRWalker82
4,005 posts
Shepherd

Although I am a smoker I do agree that there needs to be laws in place to make public areas more enjoyable to those who do not smoke. I have no problems refraining from a cigarette if I am in an area where it may be offensive, or if there are children around.

Here in Arizona we have a no-smoking law which states that you cannot smoke within 20 feet of the entrance to a building, nowhere on school grounds, and not inside of any building, public or private, unless it is a business which makes a substantial portion of its income from the sale of tobacco and tobacco products.

I am perfectly fine with this and although I miss being able to sit at the bar and have a cigarette it isn't terribly inconvenient to have to step outside to have one, and it makes the bars more enjoyable to non-smokers.

Pertokeyo
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Pertokeyo
9 posts
Nomad

Paradoxymoron: I probably am slightly addicted, but I do not want to quit because I like the culture of it.


I'm fascinated by this "culture" that you skimmed on. Has this cultured been self imposed by you or do you feel that you ere encouraged by groups of individuals or special family members?

Places have smoking and non smoking areas, and people are careful not to bother those around them. A sort of informal etiquette. It really works very well. Never have I seen a disgruntled non smoker or an indignant smoker in Berlin for this reason.


Could there be other reasons for this though? Perhaps people are less informed to the dangerous of smoking, or are perhaps more ignorant to the facts.

Also is there a false pressure that prevents people from standing up to smokers in public and private establishments.

Hypermnestra: What the...that's not what I said. At all. Here's what I said.
Talking is weak, as if there's nothing to back up your claims, that's all they are. You should link out to your sources so that you have something behind what you said. If you have no sources, then get some.


This isn't an argument or a battle. I'm not interested in creating a thread where the aim is to shoot down others views by finding weapons using Google.

The aim is to create and create then create more information to indulge in and find inspiration from; whether it is an idea, a thought or a recollection from personal experience.

This information you've donated to this thread has benefited it greatly, but you don't need to attack me all the time.

Very little information is actually true when it comes to smoking. Studies can never be perfect and generalised statistics are often poorly collected or used to project positive government movements.

Ponder over everything instead of considering anything to be true, because truth is extremely difficult to find, especially with this hugely global and diverse topic.

If the parent won't ALLOW them to leave, that's the parent's fault.


Then that is child cruelty and laws should be effective in those circumstances.

When did I ever say anything about that? I agree with you. Why do you keep trying to argue points I never even made?


The point I made there was directed at the quote in that paragraph.

If smoking is so difficult to stop, and the reasons for it are not sensible then we should target those areas.

nevetsthereaper: id rather chew most days especially when working. but its hard to do when driving.


These tobacco leaves... do you eat them because you are addicted to them or do you eat them for leisure? Also do you ingest them?

LEGEND_beast: Hell it should never be allowed because we have to be more cautious and aware of what might happen to them if they smoke.


This is floating in the direction of my immediate beliefs. Naturally I feel a great deal of biological bonding between people :a natural feeling. We should encourage positivity by showing people that we do care, and that we will help them.

By ignoring smokers we display ourselves as selfish people, regardless of human rights.

nevetstheeaper: now what about murder, terrorists, psycho killers, the point is, there are so many things out there that can kill you today, why worry about something that can kill you in years


Praise for this sound logic. True, smoking does take longer to kill, but so do drugs. Addiction to drugs reduces lifespan and supposedly smoking does, but smoking increases the risk of real sudden death complications, many of which are obvious.

HidenxBeast007: Its all about government control. If they can tell you to not smoke, they can tell you what to eat, drink, watch, listen to, etc. I think if you want to, so be it. live and let live.


The government (in a democratic society) should be there to protect the interests of the people and acknowledge their wishes.

The majority of people are non smokers, therefore the majority overrules the minority.

Also if the government does not take action to help (not intimidate) smokers then there is no effective way to stop this illogical and inferior activity.

MRWalker82: I am perfectly fine with this and although I miss being able to sit at the bar and have a cigarette it isn't terribly inconvenient to have to step outside to have one, and it makes the bars more enjoyable to non-smokers.


I am glad that you don't feel overburdened by laws and restrictions and that you have no objection to permit non smokers to smoke free entertainment.

Yes every effort should be made to provide a safe location in all areas for smokers, just like we would provide wheelchairs access for disabled individuals.

It's about trying to accommodate everyone, and that is why smoking really is an issue.
Paradoxymoron
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Paradoxymoron
65 posts
Nomad

I'm fascinated by this "culture" that you skimmed on. Has this cultured been self imposed by you or do you feel that you ere encouraged by groups of individuals or special family members?


Make no mistake, I haven't been indoctrinated into liking smoking culture, either by my family or my peers. There are few greater pleasures in life than a beer and a cigarrette. The social aspect of having a fag with your mates is what attracts me to it. You have your cheap rollies for weekdays but then crack out the B&H for weekends when you want to look dapper. It's a great conversation starter in any pub/club. Many a long term friendship/relationship has begun over a fag.

Perhaps people are less informed to the dangerous of smoking, or are perhaps more ignorant to the facts.


I don't think so. Most Germans are pretty well educated people, including on issues of health. It's more of a cultural thing. People are very considerate to each other. Smokers don't want to piss off their neighbours. But the neighbours don't want to ruin the pleasure of the act for the smokers, thus an informal compromise is reached which satisfies both parties.

Also is there a false pressure that prevents people from standing up to smokers in public and private establishments.


I'd say this is much more of an issue in London than Germany. If a drunk guy lights up in London inside people will be much more timid. In Germany they are much more direct with breaches of etiquette.
nevetsthereaper
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nevetsthereaper
641 posts
Nomad

Perhaps people are less informed to the dangerous of smoking, or are perhaps more ignorant to the facts


i know alot of smokers, all of whom know the dangers of smoking. i do admit that some of them smoke simply for the reason that they are told not to, but its still an issue of freadom, it is illegal here to smoke in buildings, and on school grounds and hospital grounds, but wouldnt the hole in the ozone be a little more hazardous to people, and yet people still drive their SUV's around, and big trucks, and semi's, with no plans on stopping.
AnaLoGMunKy
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AnaLoGMunKy
1,573 posts
Blacksmith

If a drunk guy lights up in London inside people will be much more timid. In Germany they are much more direct with breaches of etiquette.


Depends how 'ard the geezer looks, innit?

and yet people still drive their SUV's around, and big trucks, and semi's, with no plans on stopping.


Ah, the wonders of advertising and propoganda!
Hypermnestra
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Hypermnestra
26,390 posts
Nomad

This isn't an argument or a battle. I'm not interested in creating a thread where the aim is to shoot down others views by finding weapons using Google.
The aim is to create and create then create more information to indulge in and find inspiration from; whether it is an idea, a thought or a recollection from personal experience.
This information you've donated to this thread has benefited it greatly, but you don't need to attack me all the time.
Very little information is actually true when it comes to smoking. Studies can never be perfect and generalised statistics are often poorly collected or used to project positive government movements.
Ponder over everything instead of considering anything to be true, because truth is extremely difficult to find, especially with this hugely global and diverse topic.

How...you just don't seem to get it. All that I am saying is that you should link out to your sources if that's how you got the information, or at least tell us how you know. This is getting annoying, seriously. I'm not attacking you, it's a suggestion so that I can at least know where you're getting your information from, so I know that it's not all complete bullshit.

Then that is child cruelty and laws should be effective in those circumstances.

That is what I said.
AnaLoGMunKy
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AnaLoGMunKy
1,573 posts
Blacksmith

Sources are good but I know how frustrating it is when someone refutes an argument on the sole basis of no links. Each and every one of us has the ability to search, we are after all sitting at a computer while posting, almighty google is sitting watching, waititng for you to search.

But on the other hand Im lazy and links really are nice.

Paradoxymoron
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Paradoxymoron
65 posts
Nomad

Depends how 'ard the geezer looks, innit?


True, but I think it is still mainly a cultural thing. Violence with strangers/street violence is just a much more acceptable/common thing in the UK compared to the rest of Europe. A guy even got shot when he told a group of people to put out their cigarrettes inside a club a few years ago.

That would never happen in Germany. I've seen old women go up to skinheads on the Ubahns in Berlin and ask them to put out cigarrettes and are always recieved with a curteous ''entschuldigung sie'' and compliance.
Ascensive
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Ascensive
1 posts
Nomad

I personally think that it should be allowed, but only in your own home.
All smoking in public (Both on the streets, in shops etc.) should be disallowed.

Because it's not like other people choose to smoke.

greg_greg
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greg_greg
440 posts
Peasant

know the risk before you do it. die if you want.

halogunner
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halogunner
807 posts
Nomad

smoke is bad it murders people it is not cool

therefore i pronounce it the root of all evil other than

bad smells

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