I just saw a story on the news about how there is a movement to put religious monuments in front of courthouses. They talked to someone who said that "as a christian nation" and I just thought of this topic. Now I was always under the impression that the nation cannot ever have an official religion, separation of church and state etc. Some of the people interviewed even talked about the founding fathers and there comments concerning god were on the monument. Now in my opinion this is completely ridiculous. The founding fathers who wrote the Constitution believed in the separation of church and state and freedom of religion so this seems out of line to me as what these people are trying to say violates this and the Constitution. What is your view on this, and on the separation of church and state?
No, the whole BASIS for the USA was to have a country were are ethnical groups be able to live together without clenching eachothers throats! I am slighty pissed off at christians. In around the sixties, they added in god we trust on the money. Around the same time frame they put "under god" in the pledge of allegiance! Our founder fathers were ATHEIST. THATS RIGHT. ATHEIST. Christians are ruining the whole point of why America is so awesome. What really got me fed up was the mosque revolt >:/
Maybe the government was not founded in and of itself in Christianity but it was strongly influenced by it. Many of the first European settlers were christians and based their laws on the bible.
As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,-as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen,-and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
Our founder fathers were ATHEIST. THATS RIGHT. ATHEIST.
No, most of them weren't.
What really got me fed up was the mosque revolt >:/
People are against the mosque because of what happened on 9/11, not because they are Christian. Even Thunderfoot, one of the most outspoken atheists on youtube, explained why the mosque should not be built. I'm not saying he's right, but there's more to the mosque revolt than religion.
As far as I know, nobody said the government should not allow the mosque to be built. The people rallied around the site and took action into their own hands. That's how protest should work, the people should take a stand, not plead for the government to do so.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof
Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof
"Congress shall make no law" are the key words here. These words strictly mean what they say. Congress shall make no law. "In God We Trust", being printed on our money, is not a law that establishes religion or prohibits free exercise thereof. The Bill Of Rights does not restrict the government from affiliating itself with religion, as long as it does not force others to practice a certain religion or prevent them from practicing a religion.
Whether the government should be allowed to affiliate itself with religion in any way at all is a different matter.
I am slighty pissed off at christians. In around the sixties, they added in god we trust on the money.
That is correct, 'In God we trust' added to the US currency in the 60ss. The 1860's. Please get your facts straight.
As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,-as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen,-and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
The united states had just fought with a muslim nation, in order to be seen as a valid government they had to distance themselves from a religion that has often conflicted with islam.
"Congress shall make no law" are the key words here. These words strictly mean what they say. Congress shall make no law. "In God We Trust", being printed on our money, is not a law that establishes religion or prohibits free exercise thereof. The Bill Of Rights does not restrict the government from affiliating itself with religion, as long as it does not force others to practice a certain religion or prevent them from practicing a religion.
Generally the establishment clause is interpreted to prohibit the establishment of a national religion by congress or the preference of one religion by the U.S. government over another. under such an interpretation I would say the government affiliating itself with religion is a violation or at the very least stands dangerously close to it.
Whether the government should be allowed to affiliate itself with religion in any way at all is a different matter.
Considering this is suppose to be a nation of the people, and the people are made up of many beliefs including those of no belief. It should stand to reason that the government there of should not affiliate itself with any given religion or risk exclusion of members of the nation.
Our founder fathers were ATHEIST. THATS RIGHT. ATHEIST.
Fail. I was almost sure that EVERYONE knew that America, while maybe not particularly religious in modern times, was very christian oriented during its founding. Pilgrims, puritans, and all that stuff I learned in, well, fourth grade or so.
That is correct, 'In God we trust' added to the US currency in the 60ss. The 1860's. Please get your facts straight.
He was partly correct it did first appear on coins in 1865 but it wasn't made a requirement on money until about a hundred years later.
The united states had just fought with a muslim nation, in order to be seen as a valid government they had to distance themselves from a religion that has often conflicted with islam.
So basically we should just ignore any text making the claim that this nation was not founded on religion?
Generally the establishment clause is interpreted to prohibit the establishment of a national religion by congress or the preference of one religion by the U.S. government over another.
The government is allowed to present itself as a Christian nation without being one. That's the best way I can put it. The government can't make you go to church, but they can put "In God We Trust" on our currency because it is not proposing any law that respects or prohibits religion.
I would also like to point out that you should look at the first amendment as a whole.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
This amendment, like a good paragraph, represents a single idea. It establishes the freedoms to worship, to speak, and to complain. It is not about those freedoms and the separation of church and state.
A bigger concern would be having the government pay for these monuments. Tax dollars should not be spent on art. However...
It was paid for by donations from Hutchinson County residents, who were able to pitch in more than $20,000.
These residents donated money for the monument. It sounds like they are trying to get other people to do the same through example, not through bureaucracy. If the residents donated money for the monument, and if none of the other residents in the area have a problem with it, I see no problem with having such a monument.
If this happened in an area where many people did not want the monument, I believe it would be up to them to protest or to at least write to the courthouse officials.
So basically we should just ignore any text making the claim that this nation was not founded on religion?
We were founded off of views inspired by religious beliefs but were not religious within their own regards. So it really just depends on what you mean by the word "founded"
[quote]The united states had just fought with a muslim nation, in order to be seen as a valid government they had to distance themselves from a religion that has often conflicted with islam.
So basically we should just ignore any text making the claim that this nation was not founded on religion?[/quote]
I am not saying that, my meaning is that anything that is used by someone to put forth a certain point of view should be taken with a grain of salt. You have to look at the circumstances surrounding an event or document.
The government is allowed to present itself as a Christian nation without being one. That's the best way I can put it. The government can't make you go to church, but they can put "In God We Trust" on our currency because it is not proposing any law that respects or prohibits religion.
But it was a law in the U.S. code putting in place the motto, so it was a law that respects religion that allows it.
We were founded off of views inspired by religious beliefs but were not religious within their own regards.
Considering the founding fathers were mostly deist who believed in human reason as a means of solving social and political problems I'm not sure if even that is accurate to say.
"There is not one redeeming feature in our superstition of Christianity. It has made one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites" -Thomas Jefferson (quoted by newspaper columnist William Edelen, "Politics and Religious Illiteracy," Truth Seeker, Vol. 121, No. 3, p. 33)
Sure sounds like the type who would help found a nation based on the Bible to me.
