If you've been paying attention to the news lately you'll know that the English Parliment has passed a bill that has allowed the tuition fees of all English universities and colleges to triple. This has led to massive riots of the students who attend, or planning to attend post secondary education. The reasoning behind the government's move is to help the English economy, however, what may help now, could possibly hinder in the long run. Over in England the cost of living is almost double that of what it is here in North America. Housing and food are generally more expensive, and while people make enough to pay for these things it doesn't make the life of a student any easier. Many people make enough to save a little, but not enough to save for something like post secondary education, which is why it was government funded for so long, it helped out the students when they only had to pay a fraction of the tuition fee. Now, I support these riots whole heartedly, because I am in somewhat of the same situation, I make enough money to live, but not to further my education without placing myself in massive amounts of debt.
The problem with expensive university costs is this: You cut off the flow of knowledge. If post secondary education is too expensive beyond a reasonable amount of debt then it severely discourages students from attending. You can argue that people should work harder, but that argument holds no water when you are already working hard and yet can't seem to make the money you need to to further your education which could allow you to pull yourself out of debt. You cut off reasonable access to further education and you end up with people giving up on their education, not because they want to, but because they have to. There is only so far in debt you can go before you realize that you have to start paying that debt, and the only way that will happen is if you get some job, and drop out of school. Or, you go to school, but you don't achieve your full potential and end up working to pay for something you didn't want in the first place because debt forced your hand.
I am not saying that the government should pay for ALL of the tuition, I am saying that the government pays enough to make it reasonable for a student to manage their education. What the English government has done is wrong. To deny someone the right to education is to deny someone their right to live to their full potential. By all means argue that I am wrong, that I am an idealist, that I have no grasp on reality. But let me ask you this, what if the government decided to tripple YOUR tuition right now. Currently the average tuition is $6000 dollars give or take. This doesn't include food, books, transportation and living quarters. Triple that and you have $18,000 not for a top of the line school, but for an average one. Think about it.
Money is merely a tool to barter for things in life, and I see why this can be useful when there are limited resources. Communication and food need not be limited as it takes and gives to the earth when done as it always had been. Clothes are also really quite easy as material comes from plants and can be made in versatile ways (hemp for instance).
So I agree no in our current system, these things cannot be free. I am idealistic, I know.
Ignoring all other posts, simply because I do not care to read them right now. XD
The whole situation over in England right now is nothing more than over pampered children getting pissy about nothing. The average British tuition was $5,000 (much of it covered by the gov't), whereas the average American tuition is $7,600 (hardly any covered by the gov't). age=1">Source
Now, I am not sure what sub-par colleges they got the average for the American tuition from. A local state university cost well over that stated amount for a typical degree ($12,900). If someone is amazingly lucky, they -might- get scholarships to knock that down to $7,000. Keep in mind that is for a state university. Nothing that special.
Across the pond, tuition will almost triple to $14,000 for some students. So they will have to pay a little over the average tuition for a state university in the US. Government subsidiaries not with standing.
Boo-freakin-hoo. The world is in a state of economic tatters. Now your college tuition on about on par to reflect it.
What I really feel is that education should be free, but I feel the same way about food, communication and clothing.
You forgot about houses.
The wealthy have responsibilities to shape the world around them, just as a baron would tax his tenants but protect them and care for the land.
The baron does not HAVE to protect his tenants and care for the land. He cares for the land because he makes money off the land. He protects his tenants because they are the ones who are paying him.
The wealthy should have no more responsibilities than anyone else unless the responsibilities are related to their own business, donations, etc. If I open a store and I become rich, I should not have the responsibility of providing care for the poor or paying tuition fees for students. And that's why everyone pays taxes, because it's unfair to tax someone simply for having money.
Let's create our own world where education is free. Where does the money come from to pay for the school buildings, the teachers, the bills? If the money comes from the government, then where does THAT money come from? The government can continually print more money, but that causes hyper inflation. The government can tax everyone, but that increases the costs for those who aren't going to college and it's unfair to those people. The government can tax only the rich, but then there's so much burden on the rich that they must higher less people or produce less goods, decreasing the profit they make, decreasing the funds that go to schooling, and decreases the amount of money that can circulate through other businesses that are also being overly taxed.
What happens is that everyone is taxed, and the rich is taxed just a little bit more.
Its a nice thought but I feel this deflects personal responsibility of ones world and sidesteps the issue of exploitation that still happens.
People exchange goods and services, but because we all want/need different goods and different services, we use money as a median. If I scammed someone out of their money, that is exploitation. If I hire someone to work for me, or if I sell someone a good, and I make a profit, that is not exploitation. The people working for me give me labor, I give them money. The people I sell products to gain a product, I gain money.
Some products may be a rip-off, but if you want the freedom to spend your money however you want, you have the freedom to sell your product for however much you want. You can't have one without the other.
"its not my fault I killed the guy, he should have stepped out the way of my gun, so its his fault I shot him and took his wealth"
Selling someone a product they chose to buy is NOT the same as shooting them with a gun
"It's not my fault he spent 100 dollars on my product and files bankruptcy, it's not like I forced him to buy my product!"
Why is it that it's not okay to take someone else's money from their pocket, but it's okay to have the government take their money and give it to you?
As for the riots, I don't agree with how far they went. I'm all for civil disobedience, but to be honest the behaviour of most of the youths undermined their cause. Most of the people that went there didn't even plan on going to university before the tuition fee rise. It was just an excuse for aggs teenagers to riot. Pitiful really.
I agree with the second part but as for the riots undermining the cause I disagree. But if you're gonna riot you have to do it worse than they did. All or nothing. If you're gonna do it it has to be so the government know what it costs them to **** with the people. Otherwise you're just being counter productive.
Okay how about this seeing as, once again, I'm being portrayed as the devil. Please realize I'm Canadian (I think I've said that enough times) and the average cost for me is 6-6.5K for tuition. If the Canadian government were to tripple that I would have to give up on my hope of post secondary education. Those of you opposed against me simply think I'm whining without any direct cause, or so I gather. All I'm asking is what if it happened to you? Also, is there other things the government could have done instead of hike education costs to an insane ammount. 15K JUST for tuition is unreasonable. Now I'm not agree with the idiots of the riots I'm agreeing with the principle of the matter. I don't want education to be free I just want a helping hand, everyone needs a break once in a while. If the government provided me a break I'd be in university right now studying for my history degree on my way to become a teacher. Is it so selfish to want to learn? Of course it is, how silly of me, why would anyone want to further educate themselves.
Oh in case you haven't realized this the people who allowed the tuition to rise used the system to get where they are today. Gee, that's not selfish at all is it? Denying someone the oppoutunity that they themselves had.
I agree with the second part but as for the riots undermining the cause I disagree. But if you're gonna riot you have to do it worse than they did. All or nothing. If you're gonna do it it has to be so the government know what it costs them to **** with the people. Otherwise you're just being counter productive.
"A government big enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have."
All I'm asking is what if it happened to you?
College is a drain and it's obviously over priced. The solution isn't taking handouts from the government. When the government gives you money, it's the money from tax payers, not the government itself. But if the government can't afford it they can't afford it.
College is a drain and it's obviously over priced. The solution isn't taking handouts from the government. When the government gives you money, it's the money from tax payers, not the government itself. But if the government can't afford it they can't afford it.
I'm aware of where the money comes from. However, is it wise to cut out education? Why not cut out of the military budget instead?
Education and knowledge are the future to all societies progression. Education should have one of the biggest budgets there is. Sadly, even in America, it has become less and less of a priority.. Wake up!
Education and knowledge are the future to all societies progression. Education should have one of the biggest budgets there is. Sadly, even in America, it has become less and less of a priority.. Wake up!
Thank you! This is what I'm trying to get at in an indirect sort of way. The government shound fund and aid the education system in any way it can!
If it happened to me, I would be upset. I can't tell you what I would do because I already believe that it's a bad idea to have education rely so much on taxes.
Earlier you said that students could barely afford to live AND go to college because college was so expensive. Do you know why it's expensive to live, because taxes are so high! Why must the solution always be that the government provides students money for education? Why can't the solution be to find a way to lower taxes so you have more money to live your life which means you also have more money to save for college and money to use the way you want to use it.
Fine. How about we take that over sized military budget and divert half of it into the education system? No need to raise taxes then and it makes things more affordable. But wait, you think that's wrong too don't you?
Fine. How about we take that over sized military budget and divert half of it into the education system? No need to raise taxes then and it makes things more affordable. But wait, you think that's wrong too don't you?
You can't simply cut the military budget in half without causing more issues, but let's assume that you can. In the long run, the government will run into even more financial problems. Are they supposed to keep cutting spending in other areas?
Take, take, take. Students demand to be pampered. I would side with the protesters only if they were all wearing diapers, then I would have to argue that they are showing their true form and that their honesty deserves funding.
Tell me what the long term consequences will be if the government does not spend any more money on students. Do you think the uneducated students will find it impossible to find jobs due to their lack of education? Do you think colleges will remain expensive? Do you honestly believe colleges will not find a way to become more efficient while remaining cheap?
No matter what, college is a business. It doesn't matter how the college makes money, it's still a business. They will do what they can to make a profit. If the colleges must spend less foolishly, then that's what they will have to do.
This debate will undoubtedly lead to the argument of entitlement programs and how well they work/don't work. Human beings are capable of meeting each other's needs without some master hand guiding and feeding them. We need protection, that is all we need. Everything else, we the people, can work out.
Now hold on a second. Now you're just putting words in my mouth. You have once again taken my case to the vast extremes. Maybe half was a bad word to use. Perhaps I should have said SOME. Now, I'm not looking for free education, but I am looking for AFFORDABLE education that doesn't have me in debt until I'm 40 years old. I never knew wanting a helping hand was so selfish. Everyone could use a break every now and then. I'm not saying I'm entitled to anything, but it would be nice if it was a little easier to get at.
Having uneducated masses working at Starbucks is NOT PRODUCTIVE!
I'm sorry that I put words into your mouth. Please, tell me what the long term consequences will be if the government does not spend any more money on students. What will happen to the colleges themselves. What will happen to the students. What will happen in the short run with this generation, what will happen with the next generation.
Like you said colleges are a bussiness, this I won't debate. And they most lilely won't be affected in the short run. Actually I doubt we'll see any short term affects. However, tuition rates are rising, students are going to post secondary even less prepared than three years ago. Yet, collges are admitting more people each year. The long term affects are you have a number of semi educated people in debt because they weren't able to keep up with growing tuition rates so they dropped out. Sure some will find menial jobs, but, others won't and that'll put a drain on the resources that go to the less fortunate. The problem is that colleges and government don't suffer in the long run because there's always going to be money around, it's the people who do. Government diverting a little bit of money, say from the military, could help progress the education system so that it is eassier to achieve, financially, a post secondary education. I hope I don't have to talk to you about the benefits of an educated society.
