Oh, I wasn't directing that at you Sona, I was meaning to direct that last one at Sk8brdr. I'm sure that there are alternate explanations, which may or may not be accurate, however recently released findings from the experts who have studied the instance in AR have come to a conclusion based on the evidence at hand. I am not an expert, and have no access to the autopsy reports, and as such I defer to the prevailing consensus on the issue put forth by those with the knowledge, experience, and test results to come to an accurate finding. After all, if they are wrong then other scientists will notice this and a correction will be made. That's the wonderful thing about science, it's a self correcting system.
i knew it wasn't at me... i was just trying to give sk8r a small dissertation that would cover everything... and that just b/c we may share similar opinions doesn't make me the only "intelligent" person here... or even intelligent for that matter. I'm just trying to give him a few critical thinking tips being that he's (atleast his profile says he is) somewhat younger than we are
as for me... there are times when something just smells a little fishy with the details and i just can't fully believe the generally accepted explanation (fish pun :P).... so whether or not i believe my own propositions I still make them so maybe someone who is better informed than I might have an "ah ha" moment and connect a few dots.
So what are the coincidences that you have issue with? Personally everything I have dug up on these deaths is that they have varied causes, depending on location and species affected which are (in almost all cases) well documented and studied, and that the only 'coincidence' is that so many have occurred in a relatively short time frame. However given that many of them are due to weather it's rather clear that we should see large areas of many different species affected.
well people had mentioned things such as tremors... i'm not sure the EM field goes crazy or not w/ a tremor but if gases were released w/ it from under the water then those could've suffocated the fish
on other continents there have been, in the past, problems w/ avian flu
in the south we have problems w/ bugs transmitting sickness to both humans and birds... example would be west nile ( but that's more of a summer thing)... and ticks/fleas do the same thing.
contagious illnesses unique to certain species would explain it..
but the bent beaks, cracked skulls, and snapped spines talked about in the sources have pretty much cleared up a lot of my problems w/ the post. (the following may be b/c i just don't pay attention to the news that much) I'm just curious about why i haven't heard of fireworks caused mass deaths of these types of birds before... and why it wasn't worded, "we see large numbers of birds dying from this every New Years and 4th of July... so there is a safe bet that is it".. as opposed to the "....well i can see how waking up from fireworks would stress out a bird enough to fly blindly out into the dark where it can't see so it hits something and dies." when I see black birds together in my yard I only ever see a few dozen tops... not the 1000 (give or take a few hundred) described, so i just had a problem w/ the "well if you happened to get close to a roost w/ a mortar shell" idea... which led me to think that maybe they roost in smaller groups but if they did that there would be more groups and a higher possibility we would've seen this before... birds generally are in the same general areas around here respective to the time of the year so i would think they would have experienced fireworks in the same general areas before now
the above was just a condensed version of most of my thoughts about the initial post and those that followed. that was my mindset, and why i thought what i did. so... bent beaks and environment considered, I'm pretty much sold on those options now
well people had mentioned things such as tremors... i'm not sure the EM field goes crazy or not w/ a tremor but if gases were released w/ it from under the water then those could've suffocated the fish
I suppose that could be one localized hypothesis, however I would think that a. a tremor large enough to release said gases would be much, much larger than those recorded and, b. such gases would affect a wide variety of species instead of only one or two. Particularly when the marine species affected are adapted to much warmer conditions than what we are experiencing now.
in the south we have problems w/ bugs transmitting sickness to both humans and birds... example would be west nile ( but that's more of a summer thing)... and ticks/fleas do the same thing.
Again, it is very rare for such illnesses to be species specific. More often than not these illnesses can and do affect a broad range of species, although often with different effects. We are still seeing specific species in particular areas as being solely affected, which tends to lead one to identify more species specific traits which, combined with conditions in the local area, would offer a far more accurate explanation of the occurrences.
As for the fireworks issue, what is unique about this instance is that it was an area rather less urban than where we typically have professional grade fireworks, and we commonly see large flocks roost. It seems as though a gentleman in the area got his hands on some very large, professional grade fireworks and set them off. The man interviewed by the news said that they were so powerful that they literally shook his house.
Given that this is a common roosting area, it is typically devoid of such demonstrations of explosives, and that the species affected are both highly sensitive to such loud noises and night blind, the explanation offered by scientists seems to fit with all the parameters and offer an explanation which would explain precisely what we are finding.
And not at all difficult to read, or to understand your position. I was just rather intrigued by these instances so have spent a fair bit of time researching what the experts have to say on the subjects and consider the logic of the explanations. While I do not discount alternative hypothesis, I do find the ones offered to be the most logical and comprehensive in that they address all evidence, and they don't predict anything which we don't see occurring.
Fireworks next door about gave ME a heart attack. Birds, with their tiny hearts going a million miles an hour already, could easily be startled by fireworks going off with a hundred feet to the point of death.
It's probably nothing out of the ordinary for birds to suffer heart attacks. The mass heart attacks were likely due to some nice large flocks on a migration through wherever they died. They got the unfortunate end of a city or town's fireworks display, and took a nosedive.
Anyways, couple thousand isn't anything to be worried about. I've seen that many and more on my way to school on the bus. I wouldn't be concerned about it.
well the concern comes from the possibilities that it could've been... viruses, diseases, sicknesses..... although its like walker said and its not normal for sicknesses to affect just one particular species... it does happen. ( i don't have a source right now... i just remember it being said and having had an example provided at the time... i'll look for one) ... the thing that makes viruses and diseases (bacteria and such) so hard to kill sometimes (and dangerous) is that they evolve quickly via mutations (take aids for example...it evolves and the evolutions are no longer susceptible to treatment and by the time a new treatment is discovered its evolved again)..... and if something evolves it has the chance of taking on new attributes and/or gaining the ability to afflict new types of hosts. so if a lot of birds were sick then there is a chance that their sickness could evolve and make us sick... if not just hurt the ecosystem.
I heard once in Miami there was a waterspout (tornado on water) and it picked up crabs and it rained crabs in Miami. Our crab in Miami (spoof of Our man in Havana
I am sceptical about the fireworks considering it would definitely happen more often. High altitude hail seems reasonable. They also said about physical trauma. Which doesn't have to be hail because well, they did hit the ground.
