ForumsThe TavernClones have souls?

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iTzProChaoz
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iTzProChaoz
45 posts
Nomad

Recently, my sisters and I have been fighting over an issue.
Would clones have soul?

  • 28 Replies
jaza_m
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jaza_m
1,356 posts
Nomad

No, Because a soul is something that cannot be created. The clone would just look like the original. It would probably not even act like the original person due to it being synthetic.

Asherlee
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Asherlee
5,001 posts
Peasant

Begs the question, how do you know we have souls to begin with?

GhostOfMatrix
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GhostOfMatrix
15,595 posts
Bard

My definition of 'soul' is:
deep feeling or emotion
And we all do have emotions.

If an individual has those traits then gets cloned the clone cannot have a 'soul'. The 'soul' is a distinguished feature of the persons nature. It cannot simply be transferred over to a clone.

gaboloth
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gaboloth
1,612 posts
Peasant

if a soul is what Matrix said all beings with a complex brain would have one, and a human clone would certainly have.

vontje
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vontje
866 posts
Nomad

I don't think clones have a soul, they're just exact the same as the one they are cloned from.. They would act in every way their ,"boss" i will call them, would react. So they don't have their own feeling.

So i don't think they have a soul

gaboloth
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gaboloth
1,612 posts
Peasant

1 a person's brain and personality mostly depend from their experiences, so two clones would become different soon.
2 it's not certain that two identical brain would think in the same way.

Sonatavarius
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Sonatavarius
1,322 posts
Farmer

"soul" is a conceptual term of which we have no physical confirmation.

its similar to the "artificial life" thread i had a while back.... if you created a human from scratch via technology (arranging dna base pairs), would this being have a soul granted the soul exists?

now if you believe in something like the soul then I would think you would believe in an entity that dolls these souls out... I don't see why he wouldn't doll a soul out to these scientifically created beings... now there are those that argue that he wouldn't... but maybe sentience equals soul? maybe the after life has all the sentient beings (ex animal,human,or otherwise)... or maybe there's no such thing

for a discussion on a subject like this... we need more evidence to have any headway either way... w/o it its just hearsay and opinion.

iMogwai
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iMogwai
2,027 posts
Peasant

I don't believe in souls. I believe the clones would have a personality, one similar to the original, but with some differences in personality depending on differences in background and life experiences.

A clone, as in someone whose DNA was altered before their birth to match the DNA of an already born person, would be just like another human being in every way in behavior and appearances.

You could think of a person and his clone as two twins, and you don't think that only one of them gets a soul, do you? Because twins are, in a way, clones.

Here's a Wikipedia quote about human cloning:

The term is generally used to refer to artificial human cloning; human clones in the form of identical twins are commonplace, with their cloning occurring during the natural process of reproduction.


Quote by jaza_m:
It would probably not even act like the original person due to it being synthetic.


I'm going to go ahead and do some more Wikipedia quoting to let you know how cloning works.

Reproductive cloning generally uses "somatic cell nuclear transfer" (SCNT) to create animals that are genetically identical. This process entails the transfer of a nucleus from a donor adult cell (somatic cell) to an egg that has no nucleus. If the egg begins to divide normally it is transferred into the uterus of the surrogate mother. Such clones are not strictly identical since the somatic cells may contain mutations in their nuclear DNA. Additionally, the mitochondria in the cytoplasm also contains DNA and during SCNT this DNA is wholly from the donor egg, thus the mitochondrial genome is not the same as that of the nucleus donor cell from which it was produced. This may have important implications for cross-species nuclear transfer in which nuclear-mitochondrial incompatibilities may lead to death.


In other (smaller) words, the DNA of the egg is altered, then the clone is born in a natural way, and the clone is in no way synthetic.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8c/Dolly_clone.svg/391px-Dolly_clone.svg.png
This picture is from Wikipedia and is not copyright protected. It shows how the cloning of Dolly the sheep was done.


Quote by vontje
They would act in every way their ,"boss" i will call them, would react. So they don't have their own feeling.


If that was the case, then twins would act the same way as well. But they don't. That's because a a person's DNA does not determine a person's personality, even if it may affects it. A persons life experiences is much more important, which is why kids who get everything they point at tend to get spoiled, even if their parents are not.


I'd like to answer the original question with a question.
Do people have souls?
HahiHa
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HahiHa
8,256 posts
Regent

Do people have souls?

Nope

Would clones have soul?

Nope

Why? What we imagine a soul is, is nothing more than our consciousness coming from our brain. Clones also have a fully functional brain, so they also have a consciousness; it will even vary from the one of the original since we're not fixed, but prey to internal and external stimuli, which will prolly not be the same for both.
So even if you're convinced that humans have souls, you have to admit that clones probably have their own soul.
ITheNormalPerson
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ITheNormalPerson
731 posts
Nomad

i think soul is a term for personality, so when clones are made, they start acting different based on what they do, so i would say, technically, yes clones have a soul.

darkrai097
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darkrai097
858 posts
Nomad

Everything that thinks on its own has a "soul" I guess, so yes, clones would have souls. Clones are not just putting something in a copying machine, it's just basically identical twins that are born at different times. Or with different mothers.

Somewhat49
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Somewhat49
1,606 posts
Nomad

It cannot simply be transferred over to a clone.

Cloned sheep? We can clone something and it will have it a soul. But I think most people are thinking of cyborgs not actual clones when they hear that word.
Clones are in deffinition something that is coppied exactly so if it is then the person and the copy can basicly have the same soul.
GhostOfMatrix
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GhostOfMatrix
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Bard

Clones are in deffinition something that is coppied exactly so if it is then the person and the copy can basicly have the same soul.

You mean twins? If so then yes.

If you're talking about the cloning in movies were you take an individual and clone an exact replica then when created the two would have the same exact thoughts. After some time though they would differ. If that's the case then I guess a clone can have a soul. And my definition on soul is still the same on the last page.

If it was some sort of artificial clone that only took the appearance of the person then it wouldn't have a soul.
Somewhat49
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Somewhat49
1,606 posts
Nomad

If you're talking about the cloning in movies were you take an individual and clone an exact replica then when created the two would have the same exact thoughts. After some time though they would differ. If that's the case then I guess a clone can have a soul. And my definition on soul is still the same on the last page.

Kindof like the game timemu if you ever played it here. Whre if you get in the way of one it changes it's original path and everything turns into chaos after a while of changing so many emu's paths. But that's going a little bit off topic. and if you say that they would have the same exact thoughts then I dissagree because right when the are cloned (movie way) they would be in different places so they would imeaditly have different thoughts.
GhostOfMatrix
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GhostOfMatrix
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Bard

if you say that they would have the same exact thoughts then I dissagree because right when the are cloned (movie way) they would be in different places so they would imeaditly have different thoughts.

(Movie reference)
I remember watching a movie where a teenager purchased some kind of kit that brought those little sea creatures alive but it didn't work properly then he cloned himself.
They were in the same place as well. After some time though the clone started to act differently from the original. It's just a movie reference though. It would be interesting to actually see it happen.
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