ForumsWEPRThe Holy Spirit

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Efan
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Efan
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Nomad

I never really understood a few things about my former faith (christianity). What is the holy spirit? (used to be called the holy ghost. Why the name change?) No one refers to what it "is". It makes no sense to me.
My other question is why the hell did Joseph never take the time to have sex with his wife? And how could anyone believe that their wife was pregnant from a god?

PS I do not believe in any religion.

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HahiHa
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HahiHa
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Regent

What is the holy spirit?

The holy spirit is one of the three entities (or not quite entities, depending) that make the holy trinity of father, son and holy spirit. I believe not even christians know what that really signifies in detail; christianity is supposedly monotheistic, and what I hear most is that all three represent the same being. Yet why separating them in the first place? I don't know...

My other question is why the hell did Joseph never take the time to have sex with his wife?

I guess that's because Mary, as the mother of Jesus, is an important figure in christianity, who is probably supposed to be free of sins and a symbol for chastity and piety. That's why I think this couple has not comsumed their marriage entirely.

Remember, I'm atheist, and this is my take on the questions, but I hope I'm not entirely wrong :P
Asherlee
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Asherlee
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Shepherd

From wiki:

The Holy Spirit (prior English language usage: the Holy Ghost (from Old English gast, âspiritâ) is mentioned in Aramaic Matthew and the Canonical gospels and is the third person of the Holy Trinityâ"Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and is Almighty God.[1][2][3] The Holy Spirit is seen by Christians as one Person of the Triune God who manifests as three persons, or in the Greek hypostases,[4] one being.[5] (Personhood in the Trinity does not match the common Western understanding of &quoterson" as used in the English languageâ"it does not imply an "individual, self-actualized center of free will and conscious activity.")[6]


I bolded a couple of things. If all three (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) are of personhoods in the Trinity and it shouldn't be implied that they are individuals, is kind of intriguing.

In a round-about sort of way, it seems like this wiki is almost saying Jesus should not be taken as a real person. Or am I misconstruing this?
HahiHa
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HahiHa
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and what I hear most is that all three represent the same being. Yet why separating them in the first place? I don't know...

I think I looked at the problem from the wrong end.. Now I remember what I know from the celts, that in celtic mythology it all started with one omnipotent mother of everything, that with time split in a sort of trinity of three godesses, yet being all only manifestation of the same trinity. And with time, many of the lesser godesses in celtic myths also were representated as a trinity, like for example the Morrigan.
And, since we all know that christianism picked a lot of things from the religions they converted and inserted it in their own myths, I'm pretty sure, they simply adapted their god to this trinity.
This article about the Triquetra might be interesting to read in relation to the trinity..
Sonatavarius
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Sonatavarius
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it doesn't define what personhood is by their standards... it just says what its not. i don't know if it gave enough info to make a claim like that.

if i remember correctly... it says somewhere in the bible that Jesus had siblings... which would mean Joseph sexed his wife at some point(s). He just hadn't sexed her prior to that point

supposedly he was conceived during a time when the two were separated... from what i've seen there was a year long period where the woman could live w/ her own family right after marriage instead of living w/ her husband... but that's only from what i've read.

apparently Joseph had an angel visit him... maybe he was delusional... maybe he wasn't...

Sonatavarius
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Sonatavarius
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forgive me for asking a dumb question... but which area of europe are the celts located?

Linktopast30
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Linktopast30
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The Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost are synonymous for the same being. The Holy Ghost does not have a physical body, and therefore can be with everyone. He is the Comforter. He helps people discern between right and wrong, and can warn them of danger.

The only religion I know of that really explains what the Holy Ghost is is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (if anyone comments me on evangelizing, I swear...). There are likely good resources for learning that on lds.org. I'm not telling anyone to believe in my religion. I'm just posting a good place to look. To get to scriptures, go to Menu > Study > Scriptures. You can then search by phrase. Here's one passage I think you might find helpful:

Yea, behold, I will tell you in your mind and in your heart, by the Holy Ghost, which shall come upon you and which shall dwell in your heart.
Now, behold, this is the spirit of revelation; behold, this is the spirit by which Moses brought the children of Israel through the Red Sea on dry ground.
Doctrine & Covenants 8:2-3
HahiHa
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HahiHa
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I'm not an expert in celtic demography, but the Gauls for example were in France, the Helvetians were in Switzerland, Iberian celts in Spain, and there were celtic related cultures in Ireland and maybe even Scottland.
of course only more or less in these territories, they hadn't todays borders back then

Linktopast30
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Linktopast30
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@Sonatavarius: The Celts were primarily in the British Isles. They are now the Welsh, Scottish, and Irish, and perhaps the English (although I'm not sure of that one). HahiHa is correct in his guess of Scotland. You can also know by which areas there is a Gaelic language for (Welsh Gael, Irish Gael, and Scottish Gael).

I know this because I have Celtic heritage, and therefore have done a lot of studying. My last name is McAfee, from the Scottish clan Mac Phie. Blame the people at Ellis Island for changing the spelling

Asherlee
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Asherlee
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Also found a little more info.

Witnesses cite 1 Peter 3:18 and 1 Cor. 15:44-50 to back up their belief. In 1 Peter 3:18 we read, "Christ died once and for all... he being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the spirit." This verse does not prove Jesus is a spirit. This verse says that Jesus was raised in the Spirit and by the Spirit of God who gives life. Romans 8:11 states that the Holy Spirit was involved in raising Jesus from the dead. Jesus was not raised as a spirit but by the power of the Holy Spirit.


I'm taking this to mean the Holy Spirit is like a force. Which is probably more along the lines of what Christians tend to believe about it.

Like God's metaphorical hand.
HahiHa
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HahiHa
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Maybe it's supposed to be a force that, when seen by a human, appears as either the father, the son or the holy ghost?

Linktopast30
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Linktopast30
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Jester

@HahiHa not exactly... You probably feel its presence a lot without even knowing it.

HahiHa
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HahiHa
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Ok, let me change a bit my question:
Maybe it's supposed to be a force that, when showing itself to a human, is seen/experienced by the human as either the father, the son or the holy ghost?

Asherlee
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Asherlee
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Maybe it's supposed to be a force that, when showing itself to a human, is seen/experienced by the human as either the father, the son or the holy ghost?


Now you've just created 4 elements. Holy Spirit, Father, Son, Holy Ghost.
driejen
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driejen
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My other question is why the hell did Joseph never take the time to have sex with his wife?

I remember something in the bible about Jesus having siblings, so a quick google got me this;
http://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-siblings.html

Matthew 12:46, Luke 8:19, and Mark 3:31 say that Jesusâ mother and brothers came to see Him. The Bible tells us that Jesus had four brothers: James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas (Matthew 13:55). The Bible also tells us that Jesus had sisters, but they are not named or numbered (Matthew 13:56). In John 7:1-10, His brothers go on to the festival while Jesus stays behind. In Acts 1:14, His brothers and mother are described as praying with the disciples. Galatians 1:19 mentions that James was Jesusâ brother. The most natural conclusion of these passages is to interpret that Jesus had actual blood half-siblings.


As far as I know, nothing in the scriptures tell us that Jesus had no siblings or that Mary was a virgin. I believe that the idea of the virgin mary is a misconception based around the symbolism and sanctity of being a virgin, rather than a biblical account.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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Now you've just created 4 elements. Holy Spirit, Father, Son, Holy Ghost.


Could have more then that.

Revelation 4:5
From the throne came flashes of lightning, rumblings and peals of thunder. Before the throne, seven lamps were blazing. These are the seven spirits of God.

Now I remember what I know from the celts, that in celtic mythology it all started with one omnipotent mother of everything, that with time split in a sort of trinity of three godesses, yet being all only manifestation of the same trinity. And with time, many of the lesser godesses in celtic myths also were representated as a trinity, like for example the Morrigan.
And, since we all know that christianism picked a lot of things from the religions they converted and inserted it in their own myths, I'm pretty sure, they simply adapted their god to this trinity.


We are the Church. You will be converted. Your cultural and personal distinctiveness will be added to our own. Resistance is futile.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y163/MageGrayWolf/queen_s_cube_borg_cube-30475.jpg
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