AGS Steam Games

Forums → WEPR → Theism and Atheism

4668 1473451
thepyro222
offline
thepyro222
2,150 posts
Peasant

I grew up atheist for 16 years. I had always kept an open mind towards religion, but never really felt a need to believe in it. My sister started going to a Wednesday night children's program at a church. Eventually, I was dragged into a Christmas Eve service. Scoffing, I reluctantly went, assuming that this was going to be a load of crap, but when I went, I felt something. Something that I've never felt before. I felt a sense of empowerment and a sense of calling. Jesus called upon my soul, just like he did with his disciples. he wanted me to follow him. Now, my life is being lived for Christ. He died on the cross for my sins, and the sins of everyone who believes in him. He was beaten, brutalized, struck with a whip 39 times, made to carry a cross up to the stage of his death. This I believe to be true, and I can never repay him for what he has done.
I still have my struggles with Christianity, but I've found this bit of information most useful. Religion is not comprehensible in the human mind, because we cannot comprehend the idea of a perfect and supreme being, a God, but we can believe it in our heart, and that's the idea of faith. Faith is, even though everything rides against me believing in Jesus, I still believe in him because I know that it's true in my heart. I invite my fellow Brothers and sisters of the LORD to talk about how Jesus has helped you in your life. No atheists and no insults please

  • 4,668 Replies
Avorne
offline
Avorne
3,085 posts
Nomad

Because it still applies in our lives today, it's alive, it guides Christians, it stimulates our thinking...


Then why do so many Christians cherry-pick only parts of it to follow? It's because they choose only the parts that they can apply to them and their lives - and, as time goes by, the number of parts that are still applicable decreases.

No, the bible is not outdated and "old". If it were old and outdated it won't be around anymore. Instead it's one of the most popular books out there.

Arguably, the works of Shakespeare are old and outdated, but they're still around because of their literary and historical importance.

Name one circumstance where the bible is proven wrong.


Since Moe already gave you a link about the Bible being proven wrong - here're some contradictions in the Bible.

If Christianity is wrong, stupid, dumb, outdated, false, and just a bunch of fairy tales, then why would anyone be a Christian?

-Because they're indoctrinated into believing in it at a young age by their parents or peers
-They aren't really educated much on the topic of religion and so stick with what they know
-They feel insecure about the idea of there not being any higher power or afterlife so cling to Christianity as a form of safety blanket

There are lots of other reasons too, I'm sure, but since I've never been a Christian I can't really say.
Moe
offline
Moe
1,714 posts
Blacksmith

Anyways, name another place in the Bible that is not true(besides the Creation/evolution thing).


You should have read beyond the first paragraph in my link, there were other things wrong with the bible.

The Bible doesn't say that the world is young or old.


Except many say it does.

People aren't stupid. They're thinking is just like yours.


" A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it"
-Agent K
master565
offline
master565
4,104 posts
Nomad

The Bible doesn't say that the world is young or old.


Yes it does. It tells us how much time there was between two events (such as a persons age) and you can do the simple math from there.
nichodemus
offline
nichodemus
14,991 posts
Grand Duke

I'm starting to wonder whether Macfan really understands his Bible, or Young Earth Creationism that he supposedly supports. The Bible not stating the age of the Earth? If you can honestly tell me that, and claim you're an ardent and knowledgeable Christian, I hate to burst your bubble, but you've made a laughing stock of yourself. Bible scholars have for generations used the Bible to calculate the Earth's Age. It's kind of like one of the most basic concepts Christians holding such beliefs are assumed to have learnt before making themselves look like nincompoops.

So you know, here's a quick lesson for you. Doubt you will read it though, just like you have ignored much of the links we have provided.

MageGrayWolf
offline
MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

Have you heard of strong atheists becoming Christians? See?


Okay, so what?... Scratch that, I forgot it's pointless to ask you questions. I'll just leave it since that's really all that comes to mind with this.

Anyway from the link.
"There's been one lingering thought in the back of my head my entire life, and it's one thought that I've never been able to reconcile, and that is the vast difference between all the animals and us,"

Easy to answer, we're not vastly different.

Because it still applies in our lives today, it's alive, it guides Christians, it stimulates our thinking...


I'm not sure If I should LOL or WTF.

If Christianity is wrong, stupid, dumb, outdated, false, and just a bunch of fairy tales, then why would anyone be a Christian? But, there are many Christians out there.


Argument from majority fallacy. There are also many Muslims in the world, I'm sure you would regard them as following something false. In fact over all most of the world does not follow Christianity, Christians only make up about a third of the global population. That leaves us with around 2/3 of the population believing something else.

Anyway the reason for this is that religion hijacks many sociological and psychological processes that humans commonly use, which would lead someone to believe false things. At the same time is discourages certain learned processes which we use to eliminate believing false things.

But they're not dumb. Like I said, even strong atheists (ones like magegraywolf) have become Christians.


I don't think you know what this term means.

Strong atheism (a.k.a. explicit or positive atheism) asserts that "at least one god exists" is a false statement.

Weak atheism (a.k.a. implicit or negative atheism) does not accept the claim "at least one god exists", but does not assert this to be a false statement.

I would be a weak atheist in this sense. Though I could be regarded as a strong atheist depending on the god being defined.

If I remember correctly Mage is on of the people that used to be religious.


I was at one point theistic, but not sure if I would have called myself religious.

Ok, about the link. So let's say that Creation is the truth.


No, you support that claim first.

Sorry if you can't accept the truth, but that's the truth.


Something isn't true based on just believing it is.

Anyways, name another place in the Bible that is not true(besides the Creation/evolution thing).


Someone pointed out where the Bible goes wrong and you pull a best two out of three response.

Anyway just to name a few things it get's wrong.
1) Bats are birds (Leviticus 11:13, 19)
2) Insects have four legs (Leviticus 11:23)
3) Cure leprosy, with birds blood (Leviticus 14:2-52)
4) The value of pi is 3 (1 Kings 7:23, this value is again used in 2 Chronicles 4:2)
5) The Earth doesn't move (1 Chronicles 16:30)
6) Belshazzar was Nebuchadnezzar's son (Daniel 5:2)
7) Science itself is not possible (Ecclesiastes 3:11)
8) The city of Nineveh was large requiring three days to cross (Jonah 3:3)
9) The existence of the walls of Jericho (Joshua 6:20)
10) The moon produces light (Genesis 1:16, restated by Jesus Matthew 24:29)

Are those enough for you or need I continue?
Bladerunner679
offline
Bladerunner679
2,487 posts
Blacksmith

So let's say that Creation is the truth. Sorry if you can't accept the truth, but that's the truth.


...now I just feel sad for you. what you just did is completely cut out every bit of information in that article that proves that what you believe is a piece of crap. I'm going to laugh when I read in two years that you end up like me, an atheist who came into being after actually taking the time to read the whole bible, and not cherry picking like your church does to keep you indoctrinated, and then hook you in even more by playing feel-good music (I'm betting that you do the contemporary worship service at your church, am I wrong?).

People aren't stupid. They're thinking is just like yours.


if that was true, then the whole world would be atheistic. you said they thought like me, and I think that religion is loaded with logical fallacies, heavy appeals to pathos rhetoric, and massive indoctrination seminars. if they thought like me, they would also think this way. since you think religion is actually real, then that statement is easily debunked.

That's Catholicism. Kind of different from what I believe. Now that's wrong because God wants to give people free will. If they want to reject God, that's fine if they burn in hell for eternity. If they choose to follow God, then that's great. Eternal life in heaven.


protestant sects do this as well, my ignorant zealot, but you cannot see this because you are already one of their pawns. they don't have to use this method on you.

-Blade
Kasic
offline
Kasic
5,552 posts
Jester

Honestly guys...why do we even bother to respond to Macfan1 anymore? I'm a patient guy, but he's shown time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time again that he does not pay attention to the other person's post, ignores hard points of the opponent's posts, does not back up his claims, makes foolish claims that can be instantly disproven even by those on his side, and argues using entirely fallacies and nothing else.

religion is loaded with logical fallacies,


Religion itself basically IS a logical fallacy.

"Faith" is the basic tenant of -any- religion.

Faith is by definition believing something without evidence (For those of you who plan to contradict me, don't. By evidence I mean a observable, repeatable or logical claim). If you can believe anything without reason to, all that means is you're gullible.

That's Catholicism.


I love this. Catholics always get the "they're not true Christians" fallacy. Catholics follow the Bible far more closely than any protestant sects I know of. They take it literally in far more cases and are by far the oldest denomination.
Highfire
offline
Highfire
3,025 posts
Nomad

and then hook you in even more by playing feel-good music

Intiating: Counter music!

. | E L E G Y | .

The lyrics actually have some relevence, though -- so you might want to hear it. Though, being a song, it doesn't really make a good point and more or less is just there for the fun of it.

if that was true, then the whole world would be atheistic.

Pretty much. The idea that people think the same way is quite ludicrous. However, a lot of the time people can easily approach something logically, but they decide not to. I don't think I know much people around my age who've invested as much time as me in these kinds of debates -- they may still hold irrational fears of homosexuals or defend religious people and it's quite upsetting to see them hold strong views on what they know only some aspects at a minimal degree.

and argues using entirely fallacies and nothing else.

Given his tenacious presence I feel more like he should be removed by other means -- what he does mays well be considered spam, no? Or even trolling, because I'm struggling to believe he actually still follows what he does with the points he makes that can blatantly be refuted, whether or not you're against his 'side' of being Christian.

Catholics follow the Bible far more closely than any protestant sects I know of. They take it literally in far more cases and are by far the oldest denomination.

Bible Literalists I can respect more because they're not replacing that which is there with their own interpretations, so it suits them. That being said, I actually don't respect either because of the tenant of 'faith' each follows and the fact that neither have proper arguments anyway.

The main issue with non-Bible Literalists is that they can easily, and have attempted to find the middle-ground so that there CAN be a God. The only thing you can argue against these guys is that there's nothing supporting that claim, and the idea that God created the Universe with the Big Bang has nothing more supporting it than us being an experiment for a mad scientist that exists in what is either another dimension or outside the universe.

. . . And no, there is no reason a God if he / she / it were real would automatically be at the apex of moral standards. Even if he / she / it were, it certainly doesn't show in Christianity.

But I digress-- arguing the philosophies of an omnipotent being would only be necessary if you, Christians, could argue the existence of said being in the first place.

- H
zakyman
offline
zakyman
1,627 posts
Peasant

If they want to reject God, that's fine if they burn in hell for eternity.


I want to know if you mean that if you reject Jesus, or if you reject God. Because if you mean the former, what should happen to all the Jews?
goumas13
offline
goumas13
4,752 posts
Grand Duke

I want to know if you mean that if you reject Jesus, or if you reject God.

Generally, those who reject Jesus are rejecting God and are condemned already.
He who rejects Me (=Jesus), and does not receive My words, has that which judges him: the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
-John 12:48

Anyway, frankly, it doesn't really matter if you reject Jesus, or if you reject God. The Christian God is made up of three distinct Persons who exist in co-equal, co-eternal communion as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Thus, if you reject one of these persons, you are rejecting God.
MageGrayWolf
offline
MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

Bible Literalists I can respect more because they're not replacing that which is there with their own interpretations, so it suits them.


Even Bible literalists have to do this to some extent given the number of contradictions in the Bible.

But I digress-- arguing the philosophies of an omnipotent being would only be necessary if you, Christians, could argue the existence of said being in the first place.


Quite true, arguing philosophically seems to be the tactic Eric Hovind seem to be trying to take in his more recent attempts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9BfsHsVGNg (keep an ice pack on standby if you plan to watch the whole thing. You will need it after all the face palms/desk palms.)
Bladerunner679
offline
Bladerunner679
2,487 posts
Blacksmith

Quite true, arguing philosophically seems to be the tactic Eric Hovind seem to be trying to take in his more recent attempts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9BfsHsVGNg (keep an ice pack on standby if you plan to watch the whole thing. You will need it after all the face palms/desk palms.)


I'm sorry, but in the first 10 minutes of me watching this, I was just straight shocked. this hovind guy kept on going in a circular direction, then he tried to set up a straw man in order to &quotrove" that god exists and we atheists know nothing. how are religious people even believing this drivvle?

-Blade
Avorne
offline
Avorne
3,085 posts
Nomad

If you think Eric is bad - you should see his father.

I don't know how anyone can believe a word that either of them says but I guess it's a double-dose of 'like father, like son'.

xShiftedHD
offline
xShiftedHD
61 posts
Nomad

I became a Christian, but continuing my life, I feel like ignoring his whole religion thing, and you know, maybe thinking of becoming an Atheist. See, I'm alot into Science and Math, and the beliefs in Christianity, in what I think is not true. This is really how Religion can be confusing for me and other people.

MageGrayWolf
offline
MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

I became a Christian, but continuing my life, I feel like ignoring his whole religion thing, and you know, maybe thinking of becoming an Atheist.


It's not like a pick and choose type of situation. You either believe the claims or you don't. In the case of atheism it focuses on a one specific claim among them "do you believe in a god?" If yes you're a theist and can be further expanded on what sort by the definition of your beliefs. If not you're an atheist.
Showing 3796-3810 of 4668