I grew up atheist for 16 years. I had always kept an open mind towards religion, but never really felt a need to believe in it. My sister started going to a Wednesday night children's program at a church. Eventually, I was dragged into a Christmas Eve service. Scoffing, I reluctantly went, assuming that this was going to be a load of crap, but when I went, I felt something. Something that I've never felt before. I felt a sense of empowerment and a sense of calling. Jesus called upon my soul, just like he did with his disciples. he wanted me to follow him. Now, my life is being lived for Christ. He died on the cross for my sins, and the sins of everyone who believes in him. He was beaten, brutalized, struck with a whip 39 times, made to carry a cross up to the stage of his death. This I believe to be true, and I can never repay him for what he has done. I still have my struggles with Christianity, but I've found this bit of information most useful. Religion is not comprehensible in the human mind, because we cannot comprehend the idea of a perfect and supreme being, a God, but we can believe it in our heart, and that's the idea of faith. Faith is, even though everything rides against me believing in Jesus, I still believe in him because I know that it's true in my heart. I invite my fellow Brothers and sisters of the LORD to talk about how Jesus has helped you in your life. No atheists and no insults please
I cant prove He created it, I wasnt there to see it. But you cannot prove evolution just the same.
Well, yes we can (just browse around the 'Evolution' thread for more on that). But even if we couldn't: So What? It doesn't make your belief any more probable or reasonable. I ask again: do you ever think and ponder about your beliefs or do you simply accept what your church tells you? Because you don't seem to be able to defend your belief, I don't even care about what you can or cannot prove, you simply don't seem to be firmly convinced, just indoctrinated.
I firmly believe, and of course ive doubted before, when all you have is faith it makes it hard to have complete trust in what you believe. The reason I seem unconvinced is because i dont have all the answers. Again, evolution is a theory, adaptaion however is not, maybe thats what you mean when you talk about proving evolution.
i believe God exists because I can see the magnificent life and world He has created.
Correction, you can see the world. How do you know he created it? What makes you think it's the Christian God?
The reason given is completely arbitrary. It could go for anything. "I believe because I believe I do."
I cant prove He created it, I wasnt there to see it.
You weren't there to see the earth form. But we know beyond doubt how that happened. Irrelevant of the fact that we don't yet know how all matter came to exist, we know the literal claim of the Earth being created before the sun in Genesis is impossible. Unless you want to get into the deceptive God argument.
But you cannot prove evolution just the same.
Let's leave evolution to the evolution thread.
I firmly believe, and of course ive doubted before, when all you have is faith it makes it hard to have complete trust in what you believe. The reason I seem unconvinced is because i dont have all the answers.
But why? You are clearly in an irrational mindset if you can't provide a reason for your belief. Why don't you believe in Judaism, or Islam, or Buddhism, or Hinduism, or Jainism, or Taoism, or Wicca or Deism or etc.? Why Christianity?
I can't prove that He created it, I wasn't there to see it.
By that logic, you would be saying "I can't prove that the Navy SEAL's killed Osama Bin Laden, I wasn't there." And you still haven't answered all of Kasic's questions.
The users posting things against God are obviously atheist. This means that you either believe in evolution, or some other way that we came to be.
Evolution isn't necessarily atheist. Many atheists do tend to accept the theory, as many like myself tend to only accept that which has been verified.
And as I said, these are just beliefs, not quite fact, not to say that you dont have facts to back up your theories,but in the end, all of these arguments are just beliefs.
No there're not just beliefs. Also a belief supported by fact and a belief supported by by faith are not on the same level. With faith you have nothing but a claim to rely on which you either have to accept or deny. With fact we can observe and independently determine the validity of a claim. a belief supported by fact does not rely on the mere claim.
but you dont really have answers on how all matter came to be, its all theories.
Actually we don't even have a theory on that. Some scientists even consider it to be a pointless question. We do however have a number of hypotheses. But really just because currently all we can say is "I don't know" doesn't mean we should just insert what ever answer we like. Saying "I don't know" when we really don't know is simply intellectually honest. Inserting "God did it" when we really don't know is intellectually dishonest.
when all you have is faith it makes it hard to have complete trust in what you believe.
I can agree with at least this much. That's why I don't rely on faith, but rather things that have objectively verifiable evidence supporting it.
The reason I seem unconvinced is because i dont have all the answers.
I fail to see the logic here.
Again, evolution is a theory, adaptaion however is not, maybe thats what you mean when you talk about proving evolution.
This is what a theory means in science. Theory; A scientific explanation of related observations or events based on hypotheses and verified multiple times by different independent researchers.
adaptation is a part of evolution. What is usually meant by "roof" is that we have objectively verifiable evidence supporting it. In other words, we have seen evolution through natural selection take place to various degrees.
I cant prove He created it, I wasnt there to see it. But you cannot prove evolution just the same.
If by proof you mean provide evidence of it, yes we can. (See my profile.)
Evolution is adaptation. Evolution/adaptation happens because an animal has a mutation that allows it to survive and therefore breed better than others of it's spieces. It's mutation will be passed on to the next generation. Eventually, you will end up with a new spieces which all have the mutation. Now, lets say that keeps ocurring for millions of years. After so long, a spieces may have mutated into an entirely new form which cannot be described as being the same as the old one. God(s) could have, of course, designed the creatures of Earth so that could occur. The Archbishop of Canterbury who was incumbent when Darwin's theory was published thought it was brilliant.
The topic seems to be straying from a theological debate due to the tangent of evolution which was mentioned purely as an ignoratio elenchi fallacy. Can we keep the side debate here instead?
1) If God Has the ability to prevent evil, but not the desire, he is not omnibenevolent. 2) If He has the desire, but not the ability, he is not omnipotent. 3) If He has the desire and the will, how is there evil at all? 4) If he has neither the desire nor the will, why is he worthy of worship?
I just have one question to all the atheists: what is youre wrong? what if a trumpet blasted across the sky and all of the saved children of God were taken into the sky and you were left standing dumbfounded. Or if you were to die today and you woke up screaming in a dark place called hell. Just my question, I dont mean to start a debate with this.
I just have one question to all the atheists: what is youre wrong? what if a trumpet blasted across the sky and all of the saved children of God were taken into the sky and you were left standing dumbfounded. Or if you were to die today and you woke up screaming in a dark place called hell.
This is called Pascal's Wager, in which a fallacious set of options is brought up and claimed to have a 50/50 chance of it being Christianity/non belief and then going on to say nothing is lost by believing.
There are far more beliefs than just Christianity which would have to be taken into account. So really, again as partydevil said, what if you're wrong? The base statistic, if every religious and non religious belief were equally valid (which they are not, since theistic claims have no evidence whatsoever) it would still be like 1/2,000,000 chance of guessing it right.
what if a trumpet blasted across the sky and all of the saved children of God were taken into the sky and you were left standing dumbfounded.
I would admit I was wrong in that case.
Or if you were to die today and you woke up screaming in a dark place called hell.
I'd first verify that it was in fact hell, to which I would again admit I was wrong.
Just my question, I dont mean to start a debate with this.
Saying "I don't mean to start a debate with this" doesn't exempt you from responding to our return questions or give you a way to run away when pressed. You brought it up, that means that you either defend it or concede the argument.
if im wrong by your beliefs, then what, I just die and nothing else happens.
What if we're both wrong? What if the correct form is, assuming in this instance there is a correct theistic belief, Hinduism?
The point being you are not automatically safe just because you are a Christian because there are millions of times more religions than just Christianity.
