I grew up atheist for 16 years. I had always kept an open mind towards religion, but never really felt a need to believe in it. My sister started going to a Wednesday night children's program at a church. Eventually, I was dragged into a Christmas Eve service. Scoffing, I reluctantly went, assuming that this was going to be a load of crap, but when I went, I felt something. Something that I've never felt before. I felt a sense of empowerment and a sense of calling. Jesus called upon my soul, just like he did with his disciples. he wanted me to follow him. Now, my life is being lived for Christ. He died on the cross for my sins, and the sins of everyone who believes in him. He was beaten, brutalized, struck with a whip 39 times, made to carry a cross up to the stage of his death. This I believe to be true, and I can never repay him for what he has done. I still have my struggles with Christianity, but I've found this bit of information most useful. Religion is not comprehensible in the human mind, because we cannot comprehend the idea of a perfect and supreme being, a God, but we can believe it in our heart, and that's the idea of faith. Faith is, even though everything rides against me believing in Jesus, I still believe in him because I know that it's true in my heart. I invite my fellow Brothers and sisters of the LORD to talk about how Jesus has helped you in your life. No atheists and no insults please
Bob, it's been 2,000 years, the news waited 3,000 for the messiah. The bible clearly states: "To God a thousand years is as one day and one day is as a thousand years" And "No one will no the time at which The Lord comes" "The lord will come as a theif in the night" "And the fool will say where is The Lord after all this time?" Now I'm on my IPod which is really annoying to copy and paste on so I'm just paraphrasing mind you.
You don't understand the Godhead (how they actually put it in the bible)? Think of it this way, in an egg there is the egg shell, egg white and yoke but it's still just one egg.
So because other religions don't have it automatically means that it's wrong? So I suppose since (some) other countries don't have freedom of speech than neither should the US.
Yes it is more or less god will fix it don't worry all that much about the state of the earth because (think about this from our perspective) god wouldn't create a world that wouldn't last until he came back as promised.
Ok, you guys are right on the fact that the bible was not written hundred's of years later. I will concede that point. However, it was compiled many years later and it was not written in English, or any modern language for that matter. And take one look at any translator, it's not perfect. Nothing is perfect. We don't entirely know that the bible is 100%, Because it was mainly written about 1,900 years ago. Many things may be intact but how do we know that it is 100% accurate? We don't.
And I didn't mean that just because other religions don't have anything like the Holy Trinity that it's wrong. I just meant that it is an anomaly and has to be taken under serious consideration.
And saying that God will fix everything, if he does eventually show up, how will he do it? Many people are very skeptical and many people are going to be resistant. That is undeniable.
To God a thousand years is as one day and one day is as a thousand years
When was this said? I don't remember this being said. And if that is true, the Earth was formed in 6000-7000 years (depends on if you count the 7th day/day of rest). And the science refutes that. If the earth was formed in 6000-7000 years, when did he have time to make the sun? The stars? EVERYTHING ELSE? It means that there is a void when it starts out, but it never mentions the sun. It does mention light, but doesn't mention the sun. But even more importantly, Genesis was written around 1445 B.C. Dinosaurs came WAY before us, so how would one man know how Earth was created. And the excuse of "God possessed him and told him" isn't really enough. It almost feels like a cop out because they can't explain it.
How is Christianity monotheism when they worship three different things, a.k.a. Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit.
Even the Trinity aside, I'd still argue that it's polytheism by definition, as worship isn't a requirement:
polytheism the doctrine of or belief in more than one god or in many gods.
god (lowercase) one of several deities, especially a male deity, presiding over some portion of worldly affairs.
Satan the chief evil spirit; the great adversary of humanity; the devil.
Devil a. ( sometimes initial capital letter ) the supreme spirit of evil; Satan.
b. a subordinate evil spirit at enmity with God, and having power to afflict humans both with bodily disease and with spiritual corruption.
How does Satan not qualify as a god?
And when will that be?
We are said to be nearing the end of this era of man's governments, based on the signs in Revelation. So soon. There was a specific way to know approximately when, based on something like how 'every day to God is as a thousand years and a thousand years a day' [2 Peter 3:8] and basing it as a 'week' from the great flood. But estimates range between 2000 and 4000 BC, as it's 1656 years after creation based on biblical accounts, but no creation date was given.
And IF he does come down, who says he can do anything?
Doubting His infinite power?
We throw any body who even claims that they are Jesus in the loony bin, how do we know we haven't done that already?
He'll come back in the spiritual form, not physically, and will be leading God's army against the wicked.
However, it was compiled many years later and it was not written in English, or any modern language for that matter. And take one look at any translator, it's not perfect. Nothing is perfect. We don't entirely know that the bible is 100%, Because it was mainly written about 1,900 years ago. Many things may be intact but how do we know that it is 100% accurate? We don't.
"God inspired the true translated version and compilation and wouldn't allow other crap to get in there or have anything important be left out."
and there is no possible way that all of those documents survived.
I'll agree with Manly on this point. Some documents survived thousands of years.
And the science refutes that.
"Then science must be wrong, as they should agree." Not to mention that the earth and water were there before light.
If the earth was formed in 6000-7000 years, when did he have time to make the sun? The stars? EVERYTHING ELSE?
According to Jesus, "All things are possible with God" [Mark 10:27].
He does, but I think most christians would argue that Satan isn't divine in essence, whatever he may be. Also, wasn't he an angel before being corrupted? He would have gone from underling to deity thanks to his fall, I thought he ought to be punished.
Not to mention that the earth and water were there before light.
Even the plants were there before the light. Genius God?
WHAT DO YOU MEAN? How does that make any sense? There is plenty to be confused about. Case in point: How is Christianity monotheism when they worship three different things, a.k.a. Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit.
Catholicism is the only branch of Christianity which believes in the trinity. The trinity is believed to be three parts to a whole, so they aren't really worshiping three different beings, but recognizing different parts to one being.
No other religion fits all of it's God's into one thing, why does Christianity.
As said, the trinity isn't multiple gods, but multiple aspects of one god.
And if that is true, the Earth was formed in 6000-7000 years (depends on if you count the 7th day/day of rest).
Most Christians do not believe in the literal story of Genesis (except for Noah's flood, oddly enough) and do accept that the world is older than 7000 years.
But even more importantly, Genesis was written around 1445 B.C.
Source?
It almost feels like a cop out because they can't explain it.
That's basically religion in a sentence.
As for the order of creation, it depends on what version of the bible for some of them.
I really don't feel like responding to all of that right now so I'll just 'how do we know that all of it is there?' Again, think about it from our perspective, the Fod who created the earth and all it's glory can make sure that there is at least one good and complete copy of his word.
, the Fod who created the earth and all it's glory can make sure that there is at least one good and complete copy of his word.
The same supposedly all powerful and loving God who:
Created Satan. Let him tempt Adam and Even. Made the tree in the first place... Killed everyone except for a few people through a giant flood. so on so forth.
The same supposedly all powerful and loving God who:
Created Satan. Let him tempt Adam and Even. Made the tree in the first place... Killed everyone except for a few people through a giant flood. so on so forth.
Why does nobody else even consider this? God is supposedly "erfect" but he has done bad things. And our version of perfect does not allow for a person to do bad things. He isn't perfect.
Even for Revelations when Jesus is supposed to return, it doesn't happen until another mass slaughter of human kind, approved by God.
God, the greatest mass murderer in history. Billions worship him, and yet he's directly responsible for more atrocities than even the worst hundred people ever combined.
I really don't feel like responding to all of that right now
this is the number 1 reason why this thread is still up and running. everytime I see this thread revived, I see the same points re-hashed, and none of the theists seem to notice this. perhaps there is a pschological inhibitor about them that prevents them from reading all of the arguments! something that indoctrinates them, and stops them from actually looking at the total lack of logic in their argument. so I will say this in a way that will at least make christian logic look really stupid:
god turns into the son of himself in order to sacrafice himself to save us from himself.
if that doesn't seem ridiculous, then you really need to think about how this works, and put up a decent response as to how it does.
let it be known, that I really want the people on this site to stop whipping the dead horse that is this thread. it's dead, get over it.
"For a long while, Satan was good, nearly as high as God (possibly 3rd after Jesus/Michael, depending on the sect), serving Him without question, but wanted power greater than God, and defied Him with his use of temptations/persuasion. He does not force people to do bad; he only tempts them. He was created for the same reason man was: to worship God and to do His will. God alone knew he would do bad things, but Satan did not know that, and, therefore, chose to be defiant and rebellious."
Let him tempt Adam and Eve. Made the tree in the first place...
"He allowed Adam and Eve to choose to either serve Him or defy Him. They were directly told what to do and what not to do, and they chose to defy Him. It's impossible to have free will if there is no alternative choice. It's impossible to show true love/reverence without such a choice. Thus, now we all make the choice of showing our love for God, or defying Him." "John 9:1-7 shows that God allows negatives so positives shine through."
god turns into the son of himself in order to sacrafice himself to save us from himself.
"The purpose was to demonstrate His promise of a resurrection for the righteous/innocent."
Killed everyone except for a few people through a giant flood.
"Symbolic of the narrow path to being saved forshadowing armageddon. Those who died were considered evil."
it doesn't happen until another mass slaughter of human kind, approved by God.
"Those people will be bad/sinful in God's eyes. They will choose to be unrighteous. The innocent/righteous will be protected, as a 'great multitude' of people will be saved [Rev 7:9-17]."
Anyways, let's breakdown just how horrible God is.
"For a long while, Satan was good, nearly as high as God (possibly 3rd after Jesus/Michael, depending on the sect), serving Him without question, but wanted power greater than God, and defied Him with his use of temptations/persuasion. He does not force people to do bad; he only tempts them. He was created for the same reason man was: to worship God and to do His will. God alone knew he would do bad things, but Satan did not know that, and, therefore, chose to be defiant and rebellious."
1) Created everything just so he would be worshiped. 2) Knew that he created Lucifer as is and that because he created him that way would do evil. 3) Punished Lucifer for doing what he was created to do. 4) Choice is a bunch of bull**** when God knows that's what you're going to "choose" and because God is omniscient, your actions are predetermined.
"He allowed Adam and Eve to choose to either serve Him or defy Him. They were directly told what to do and what not to do, and they chose to defy Him. It's impossible to have free will if there is no alternative choice. It's impossible to show true love/reverence without such a choice. Thus, now we all make the choice of showing our love for God, or defying Him." "John 9:1-7 shows that God allows negatives so positives shine through."
1) Same thing with Lucifer. Created them for the sole purpose of worshiping his narcissistic rear. 2) Also same thing with Lucifer. Created them to be tempted so that he could punish them.
"The purpose was to demonstrate His promise of a resurrection for the righteous/innocent."
1) Created yet another thing to die. 2) If he's omnipowerful, he could have accomplished the exact same thing without bloodshed of any kind if he so wished. Since he chose that way, he's simply sadistic.
"Symbolic of the narrow path to being saved forshadowing armageddon. Those who died were considered evil."
1) Created all those evil people to be evil, since he knew what they would do if he created them as such. 2) Mass murder still. 3) Narrow path to being saved = worshiping your *** off.
"Those people will be bad/sinful in God's eyes. They will choose to be unrighteous. The innocent/righteous will be protected, as a 'great multitude' of people will be saved [Rev 7:9-17]."
1) Recurring theme. Created to do bad and punished for doing such. 2) Innocent were only created to worship him. 3) "great multitude" is less than 3/4 of the human race.
In summary, God is a self serving, narcissistic liar who creates things to do bad and punishes them, then gets off on proclaiming himself to be righteous after murdering millions of people and having set plans to murder further billions.
Why would anyone want to follow such a god as portrayed in the Bible?
